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Cutting Bowl Blanks

Started by Norm, December 11, 2008, 09:45:41 AM

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Norm

I was wondering if you guys that are experienced with this could give me some pointers. What method do you use to take a log and make bowl blanks out of it.

Thanks.

Burlkraft

Depends on what yer plannin' on makin' out of it. For bowls I cut down the pith and then cut to length. The blanks I got from Pasbuild were all bandsawn round      ;D  ;D  ;D
I usually just put the spur drive in the pith side and tail stock on the wane side and turn the bowl.

5/8" bowl gouge makes short work of the bark and the corners  ;)  ;)  ;)
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Dodgy Loner

Norm, I also split the logs down the pith.  If they're straight-grained and easy to split, I'll use wedges, but more often I just use a chainsaw.  I actually trim the blanks roughly to shape with the chainsaw, too.  I agree that a 5/8" bowl gouge removes wood quickly, but a chainsaw removes it even quicker ;).  After that, I mount the pith side on a chuck, or if it's really big, on a faceplate, and start the lathe :).
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

OneWithWood

The latest issue of Sawmill and Woodlot has an article on just this sort of thing.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Norm

Thanks guys for the help. How thick do you prefer these to be if they are split down the pith? As thick as the log you're splitting? And also how long is an average length for them?

low_48

I don't like to split right down the pith unless I'm really trying to get the max out of the log. I usually block out an 8/4 board out of the center. Some species will have some unseen cracking in the pith, plus that center wood will really distort as the bowl dries. I usually don't cut any thinner than 4" for bowl blanks.

SwampDonkey

Yeah, that juvenile wood around the pith might give you trouble with shrinkage.

But, on another note, I have never turned bowls like you guys are. I always work with the grain and peel off layers, not against it. So get a large diameter tree, split in two and remove the face with pith and juvenile wood, mount on the end grain and spin.  ;D

I'm going to try it your way some day though. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Burlkraft

If you are turning a bowl you turn out the pith and the surrounding wood when you are hollowing the bowl out   ;)  ;)
Why not just 1 pain free day?

SwampDonkey

You could, but then there is pith in the bottom of the bowl still, to split maybe. I have left pith in some bowls that don't split, but I usually sealed the suckers with epoxy. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

I just looked at a 30 year old red oak bowl I made like you guys do. It turned out great. I think I only put linseed oil on it. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

I also got snooping here and found a natural edge bowl with bark still in tact made into a bowl like the way I usually turn on the end grain, it has pith and was a 6 inch diameter tree. That bowl is probably at least 60 years old. My grandmother had it. Looks like ash to me. The base was left rough and was cut by hand by the look of it.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Burlkraft

Quote from: SwampDonkey on December 11, 2008, 03:56:49 PM
You could, but then there is pith in the bottom of the bowl still, to split maybe. I have left pith in some bowls that don't split, but I usually sealed the suckers with epoxy. :D

How is there pith in the bottom of the bowl  ???  ???  ???    The bottom of the bowl is the sapwood side
Why not just 1 pain free day?

SwampDonkey

Yeah we got our wires crossed here.  :D I didn't know if I was being addressed or someone else, so I was assuming we were talking about mounting the piece by end grain. I guess you meant mounting on the flat sawn side furthest from the pith. ;)  :D What about the juvenile wood on the rim of the bowl? Widdle that away to I guess, simple solution. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: low_48 on December 11, 2008, 12:39:08 PM
I don't like to split right down the pith unless I'm really trying to get the max out of the log. I usually block out an 8/4 board out of the center. Some species will have some unseen cracking in the pith, plus that center wood will really distort as the bowl dries. I usually don't cut any thinner than 4" for bowl blanks.

I agree with Burlkraft- it's easy enough to turn out any cracks and pith once it's on the lathe.  Sometimes you get lucky, and there just aren't any cracks to turn out.  My blanks are mostly 3-6" thick.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

woodbowl

I split down the pith, hollow from the inside and let the bark side tell me where the outside should. They are not turned, rather scallaped and oblong in shape. The pith is too close to the rim in a lot of cases and needs to be shaved down and reduced in depth to keep it from splitting, and it looks better too.  How's that bowl sanding comming along Norm.  ::)
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Norm

I was kind of hoping you'd forgot about it woodbowl. :D

Worst part is that it sits right next to my desk so every time I sit down I think man woodbowl's going to think I'm a real slaggard as it's still in the same shape as when he sent it.....ohhh the guilt.  :D

Tom

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,21622.msg310534/topicseen.html#msg310534

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,20422.msg291503/topicseen.html#msg291503

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,269.msg2694/topicseen.html#msg2694

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,3197.msg43611/topicseen.html#msg43611

There's other coversations on the forum that are about bowl blanks too.

When I cut for Mr. Shippey, he taught me to skim the top of the log so that there wasa 3 inch wide flat spot, then drop down and cut 3-5 inch thick slabs until you were near the pith.  Don't include the pith, or heart checks, in the bowl stock.

Lay this slab down and cut into lengths that are as long as the slab is wide.  This might equate to the narrowest measurement of the width of the slab.

An X is drawn on the blank to define the center and a piece of string and a pencil marks a circle on its widest (pith side) face.  Then the piece is put on a bandsaw and the circle for the bowl sawn.  this is where it is handy to have that first little flat spot on the bark side.

He turns his bowls right away (green turning) and leaves them fairly thick (1/2 to 3/4 inch).  Then he covers them good with Johnson paste wax and puts them in a corner of his shop to dry.

SwampDonkey

Sounds great Tom. I should be turning more pieces than I do, I hardly turn any.  I'd like to open up a cherry burl some day, but I want them to grow more first. I got a few 10-12 inches, like to have 14-16". I imagine they are full of gum. Oh well another 4 or 5 years. :-\
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

metalspinner

Norm,
If the material is a "real" log, my Woodmizer sawyer will just cut the thickness that the log will yield.  Usually I have him do 3" and 4" blanks - making sure to eliminate a couple inches around the pith.  The wider the boards are, the thicker they need to be.  But usually don't get much thicker than 5".

If I come across some shorts (chainsaw bar length) I rip them with the chainsaw.  BTW, I have an 066 with a 36" bar. ;) I will stop the rip before I get all the way through so the log keeps its balance for the rest of the cuts.  When all the blanks have been sawn most of the way through, I finish of all the cuts.  A square ground rip chain helps with speed, but a regular chain works just fine, too.

Mostly, I turn dryer blanks than fresh green.  I've not had good luck with green blanks, but have not tried it enough to give up on it yet.  Besides, I am more of a bowl blank maker than a bowl maker. :D
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

woodbowl

Ahhh the pleasures of sanding concave and convexed surfaced to a mirror smooth finish. I'm good for about 30 minutes, after that I've had all I want. Still searching for a good sanding system.  :)
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Tom

I buy you books and I buy you books !! :D

Those bowls you are making will sell for the same dollars rough as they will glass smooth.  At least don't wait until you come up with a sanding system before you start selling them.  You can always make more bowls.  :)

CHARLIE

I hearya woodbowl. I love to make that smooth final cut and then touch it up with a little 2000 grit sandpaper for a mirror finish. :D
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Tom

Yeah, but you're one that folds the seams of the coffee filter so that it fits just right too.  :D :D

CHARLIE

Norm, here is a good instruction from Bill Grumbine in Pennsylvania.  It takes you through the steps and has pictures.  I think it'll be a great help to you.

http://www.wonderfulwood.com/articles/logcutting.html
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

CHARLIE

DanG it Tom! You don't forget nuttin'. Do you!  Well........the DanG filter did fit better too!
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Left Coast Chris

Hi Norm,

All good advise but just one more consideration.  Unless you are going into production bowl turning there is normally not a need to "saw up a log into bowl blanks". 

Here is the thing:  If you are going to make art form bowls and take your time to make each piece a special piece then you cut only a special piece out of a burl or large crotch here and there and collect only the best.   That way when you spend a day or two on a bowl you have a special form out of some special wood.  The wood itself can be as inspiring as the shape of the bowl.  You are around alot of wood so take your time and only take those special pieces to make your bowls assuming they will be on display in your house or given as gifts.  You will start to picture the form of the bowl, urn, vase, plate or ornament when you see the piece.  You will want to sign them on the bottom also.   Special stuff. :) :)

On the other hand,  if you are just practicing, saw up the straight grain stuff and have fun! ;)
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

SwampDonkey

WoodCraft sent me a nice glossy magazine last week and it has a polishing system that you mount on your lathe. I know, that's not a sanding system, but one more step to get a glass finish. I knew an old guy that made his own with flexy staff and buffing wheels and hooked it up to a motor he scrounged and set up a way to attach it to bit chuck. I was just wondering if a Dremel had enough power to do I. I got looking through drawers here and I have 3 of them Dremels from past Christmases never even used.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ellmoe

   I get alot of red oak crotch wood . I have not noticed anyone mention turning oak, I assume there is a reason. Is it too hard, checks too much, unattractive? I get requests for turning blanks from time to time. Is there any particular species in Fla. that is especially attractive for this? We have cypress, sweet gum (including red gum), red maple, magnolia, ash, black gum, red cedar, cherry, pine (including "blue" and heart )plus the odd log or too. I also tend to specialize in spalted logs. ;D At the mill there is also a live mulberry with a burl about two feet in diameter. What are the odds that it is worth harvesting (I like the mulberrys so I'm partial to keeping the tree for awhile longer? ;D

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

SwampDonkey

My first bowl was red oak about 30 years ago, I have it right here. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Norm

Thanks for all the great advice guys! If the weather is as bad as they say this weekend I'll be bowl blank cutting instead of deer hunting. Maybe I'll keep the gun handy in case one with a curiosity streak shows up. :D

metalspinner

ellmoe,

Red oak is kind of course and tends to splinter around fine details, but I'm sure many a fine bowl has been made with it.

All the woods you mentioned would make nice bowls.  I've not seen too many soft wood bowls, but that doesn't meen anything, though.  If a bowl is going to have a functional use like a salad or cereal bowl, then a wood like cedar shouldn't be used.  It will change the taste of the food.

Any burl.  Mulberry would be beautiful.  But the berries taste god , too. ;)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Don_Papenburg

Most of the bowls I have turned were cookies out of fallen limbs.  I centered up on the pith and started turning . most of them were catalpa . They turned out just fine .

Norm make a scraper in the shape of the woodbowl bowl on your desk .   I have made scrapers out of 1/8 to 3/16" stainless steel for curved moldings and doors .  When you are done with the scraper you can start up with 500 grit and work up to 1200 for a nice smooth finish.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

SwampDonkey

Thanks for piping in Don. The rest of the folks are too timid to turn end grain wise. I thought I was alone. ;D  :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Norm

Thanks Don, where do you get the flat stock for making these scrappers from? Do you buy regular ones and then grind them?

By the way not to muddy the matter but it came to me that woodbowl sent this one to !PATTY! not Norm and I'm wondering how come I have to do the finishing work. :D

SwampDonkey

Didn't you know Norm? Guilty by association. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Don_Papenburg

My scrapers so far have been made of 304 stainless from the junk bin at
Flink company.  I grind the profile and then finnish  it" square " with a fine file and pull or push it at a slight angle to perpendicular. 
I shoud not say any thing but I think Patty forgot about gettin even bout me agreein with you before but anyway     Ya , why are you finnishing it put it on Patty's desk.






PS I just move to an undisclosed location out of the state of Illinois
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

CHARLIE

Most of my favorite tools are those that I've made myself. Norm you can get HS steel from Enco ( http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHI?PMSECT=1904 ).

SwampDonkey, one of my favorite things to make is turned lidded boxes, which is endgrain turning. I use a Oneway Termite Tool to remove most of the wood fast and then go to my scrapers to finish cut the sides and bottom. 8)
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

SwampDonkey

Charlie, I've got to try some of them lidded bowls sometime. I've got some butternut in log form sitting out in the shop woodpile that keeps starring at me. :D

Yeah, I have a termite to. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dodgy Loner

I've turned lidded boxes, goblets, and lampshades from end grain.  I just don't like having the pith in the wood that I use, so I don't turn bowls that way.  Also, I don't have a termite ;)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Don_Papenburg

I need to make a termite or a halfround cutter to speed up the bowl turning.

SD I like to turn  endgrain limbs because the bad part is almost done by the time it is mounted .
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Lud

Here's a way to saw hard wood logs and cut turning blanks that works for me. I square the cant on a  bigger log in 4 cuts, avoiding those outer, twisty, live cambium , boards that have to be edged.  Maybe 4" to 5" s deep  and then flip the log 180 degrees and cut the opposite side the same.  That gets you two wide slabs.  The  other two cuts to square the cant give you thick but narrower  slabs.

I chainsaw the slabs into squares , letting the width dictate the length. And I pile them into the barn towards the bandsaw.

Here's whats different.  I cut a set of concentric ,thick plywood , 1 inch wide rings on the band saw and reglued them. The rings let you size the blank up easily. I run two deck screws flat thru a right size ring into the high spots on the  bark side of a blank.  The ring acts as a handle and a guide as I cut them on the bandsaw.  I then hold the ring as I run the roller of anchorseal around the blank .  Run out the screws , grab another blank and back to the saw.  No compass work.

  Eight slabs off of two cherry logs gave me over 70 blanks this way. Very efficient and I get spoon blanks out of the side pieces and I bag up the corners for my stove burning friends!   8) 8)

Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

turningfool

it depends on how you want that finished piece to look,the pith methods decribed work well with few checks but if you have a chunk of colorful box elder or maple with spalting going on, then end grain turning works fine too..just remember to rough it out symetrically and apply an extra coat of anchorseal to prevent too fast drying to prevent radial checks

BLink

What happened to everyone!
I was enjoying this thread!

I cut a bunch of Red Oak and Cherry blanks out of quarter sawn pieces and most of them split. Thinking maybe they were drying too quickly.
They were also around 6" thick. Is that too thick?
There are a lot of Old Loggers.
There are a lot of Bold Loggers.
But there ain't a lot of Old, Bold Loggers!

Stihl 034, Stihl 009, Husquvarna 3120, 540 Allis Chalmers Loader, International T1340 Crawler Drott 4in1 Loader, JCB 1400B, Cat IT14F

hilltopper46

Yes, six inches is too thick if you did nothing to them. DId you seal them to slow moisture egression?

I rough out blanks of that size to take the bulk of the center out of them and then seal the roughed out bowl with Anchor Seal, and I still get some that go bad.

Harder and denser woods like oak or cherry are more likely to crack than softer woods like silver maple or box elder.

Personally, I hate turning red oak.
Southeast Wisconsin
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