Woodmizer blades falling off wheels question

[Jim_Rogers]

Guys:
I'm re-sawing some syp salvage decking for an antique lumber yard, and I'm having some real problems with the blades falling off the wheels on my woodmizer.

I think it's totally build up on the blade between the blade and the B57 wheel belt, that is causing the problem.

I have always used water so don't suggest I use diesel fuel as I'm very dead set against that for sure.....

I added some windshield washer fluid to my water jug to make sure it didn't freeze, but I'm thinking I've got to add some Dawn dish washing liquid to it as well.

Has anyone had this problem with the blades just falling off the wheels for what seems no reason at all?

I adjusted my idle wheel one half turn to the rear to make sure they don't fall off any more. And I reversed my B57 belts as well, in case they were worn.

So far I've had three different blades fall of the wheels, twice it happened at the end of the cut when I was going from high to low idle and once it happened when I idled up...

Jim Rogers   

[ARKANSAWYER]

  The problem is the adjustment on the idle wheel.  You need to adjust it and run the blade and make sure the gullets are just clear of the edge of the belt.  When the adjustment is out it will saw just fine in dry stuff.  But the pitch in pine will cause you some problems.  Most of the time the blade will jump off when you pull the clutch lever or quite at the end of the cut.  Either way it will dull the blade and spoil the day.  Pinesol in the water helps alot too.   I saw lots of SYP and the pitchy stuff will make you take notice. 

[BBTom]

It sounds almost as if the belts are greasy.  I have not had that problem before.  My best guess is that your lube is freezing on the belts, try more WW fluid.  

I do know that buildup on the blade will cause all sorts of wavy cuts and heating blades. I use a mixture of 6 oz. pine-sol and 6 oz. "car wash with wax" in every tankful, I use anywhere from 1 to 5 gallon of ww fluid per tankful, depending on the weather. one gallon of ww fluid to the tankful only pretects you down to about 20° F(if my memory serves me right).  Someone here on the forum should know the numbers. chime right in and give us the real numbers.

[ladylake]

 Also check the bearings, I don't like the smell of diesel either but I'd rather use 1/2 gal of diesel than 8 gallons washer fluid and still have trouble.  Steve

[Jim_Rogers]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I did check the bearings and everything is tight and seems ok....
It's not cold enough here during the day to freeze,,,, lately......

Jim

[dad2nine]

I had that problem after cutting a boat load of red oak. turned out to be the outer bearing in the idle side guide. There are two bearings in each guide so it's kinda hard to tell if one is bad. With the blade off, turn the guide by hand... if it don't turn nice a smooth, most likely a bearing went bad in there. I pulled the guide off and it was easy to see the bad bearing, cause the bearing dust cover had fallen off. I replaced all 4 guide bearings in both guides and even though they were not bad, I also replaced the big idle side wheel bearing and both b57's while I had it down... Cut's like a champ again

[Tom]

OH YES!  Man! have I ever had that problem.  Pine resin from an old piece of wood is the stickiest stuff I've messed with.  It melts as the blade passes through the cant and solidifies as the blade exits the cant, almost immediately.  It builds up on the band and on the tires. 

There are two things that it does that causes the band to come off.  One is that the buildup changes the position of the "crown" on the wheel, both by building up on the wheel and building up on the blade.

The second thing is that the resin is so sticky that the blade actually glues itself to the wheel.  When the wheel begins to turn, the band can't move to the high part of the crown and just literally tracks itself off of the wheel.

I am dead set against using a petroleum product.  I know that not much actually gets on the wood, but some does.  I wouldn't want it on my wood.  But!  This is one of the few instances where I allow myself some oil.  I use a squirt can (like the railroad engineers) and put a bit on the band to keep the resin from sticking.  Sometimes I have to administer it as I walk along with the blade.  Sometimes a squirt or two will keep it slick enough through the cut to go the distance.

I try everything to keep from using it.  I run the water full tilt.  I put soap in the water, not just a dab but sometimes a bunch.  I've used pine-sol.  I'll do anything to keep the blade cool.  Sometimes a new sharp blade will run cool enough to keep gumming down.  The problem is that gumming reoccurs as soon as the tips begin to wear just a little. It's the dad-gum heat that causes it.  It happens the worse when you drive the blade too hard, or sometimes even too slow.  It happens when the fibers in the kerf rub the sides of the band.  Increasing the set will help sometimes because it opens up the kerf.

I know exactly what you are talking about  and feel the same as you do. But sometimes you just have to do what you have to do.  Know what I mean, Vern?    Just don't tell anybody I said to do it.   :D :D

[pineywoods]

Tom got it right......I saw mostly dead southern Yellow pine, a lot of it what us southern boys call lighter pine.Hard  hard and loaded with sticky resin. The best solutions I have found pretty much agree with what Tom said. Lots of water, pine sol, and lots of set.
As a last resort, diesel or kerosene. If this stuff builds up on the blade and bandwheel belts, blades WILL jump off, dive and climb. Anything you can do to cut down the resin buildup will help. I've had to stop the mill and use a knife to scrape the stuff off the blade and belts. It's amazing how fast the buildup can occurr when the blade hits a knot that's mostly resin.

[backwoods sawyer]

When I first got my mill the guides and the idler bearing were shot. The wheels were out of alignment and needed crowned and the saws that came with it should have been in the scrap pile. Cutting sticky pine first thing out with it made for a miserable time trying to solve the problems. While working thru them one by one until the mill was cutting the way it should. I found that spraying a garden hose on a reduced stream at the point where the saw enters the cut helped to keep the saw and wheel from building up with the pitch/resin. It also helped to cool the saws.
Now when I notice build up I stop and scrape the wheel, give the band just a light coat of 50/50 mix of diesel and bar oil, and pour some pine-sol in the water jug. Run the saw with full flow on the lube system and make sure it is good and clean then get back to sawing. If I have water available and the pitch starts to build up again I spay water from the hose on it as well. If no water is available repeat as before. Just keep the build up from forming, as it will not only push the saw off the wheel, it will also dent the body of the saw so that it will not track correctly.

I understand you not wanting to use a petroleum product on the saw as it will soften the belt and shorten it's life. That is one of the reasons that I like steel wheels. Scraping the pitch off them is easer then the belted wheels as well.

[bandmiller2]

Winshield washer fluid is methanol a tad of soap and pretty blue dye.Problem is the meth. evaporates quickly and leaves water that does its thing and freezes to a film like on your winshield.I have never tried it but how would R.V. antifreeze work even feels a little greezy too.Frank C.

[Jim_Rogers]

Thanks for your advice everyone.

How much pine-sol do you put into a 5 gallon jug of water?

Jim

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Most of the time just a shot glass or two but when cutting pitchy pine I like about 2 coffee cups in there.
  I have had to use mineral oil in a oil squirt can to keep the blade clean a time or two.  If you can put it on butcher blocks and the wife remove makeup with it then it will not hurt the boards much.





  Some days you just need a little help keeping clean.   Rubbing alcohol will clean the pitch off your hands and clothes and mill most quick.

[Chuck White]

  Some days you just need a little help keeping clean.   Rubbing alcohol will clean the pitch off your hands and clothes and mill most quick.

Another product that will clean pitch of your clothing and your skin, as well as the bunks on the sawmill is "SIMPLE GREEN" or the generic "MEAN GREEN" that you can get in the Dollar Store!

[slider]

jim,I saw a good bit of sticky syp,i have tried every thing from diesel fuel to 8 different ditergents but tide ultra is the next best thing to diesel whitch works the best . When it gets so gummy that the ultra won't keep up I just hit the blade with a shot of wd 40 . hope this helps.  slider

[Jim_Rogers]

Well, I went to the store and got two bottles of Pine-sol for $5.
And I poured half of one into my 5 gallon jug.
Along with another bottle of WW fluid and the jug was full again.....

I cut three beams and only hit one nail, and the blade never fell off......

I was running it with the water pretty much wide open and watched the blade for build up and didn't see any to mention.


Thanks again everyone for all your advice.....

Jim