A concrete question.

EZ · July 15, 2003, 02:53:04 AM

Not to scare you Jeff, but I poor the metal for the parts in these planes. ;D
EZ

Fla._Deadheader · July 15, 2003, 05:05:05 AM

AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;)

biziedizie · July 15, 2003, 09:56:16 AM

Jeff flying is fun, been doing it every chance that I get. Even been in a plane wreck and even that was fun. :D My uncle builds personal aircrafts and we took one out on it's first flight and right when we were about 75' off the ground it stalled and down we went.

:D The paper made it sound real bad but all we did was have a very bumpy ride when we hit the ground.
Hey wait a minute didn't some of those parts come from EZ's shop??? :D

Steve

Mark M · July 15, 2003, 12:49:08 PM

Steve - dat would explain it! ;)

dan-l-b · July 15, 2003, 07:01:36 PM

Hey Jeff, I am pouring a new floor in our house the 25th and will be staining the concrete 6 wks later. The stuff I am using says for this product do not clean the floor with acid. Its called KEMIKO concrete stain-wax-sealer (1-800-875-4596) They will send you a video, have 8 colors to choose from and they are on the net somewhere. This stain reacts with the lime in the concrete and looks like marble,- quarry tile. 8) 8) I went through your thread pretty quick as I a slow reader :P so I hope this is new info

biziedizie · July 15, 2003, 08:43:40 PM

  6 weeks later???

  I wouldn't touch a fresh pour for a min. of 6 months. Concrete is alive and it constantly moves as it dries.

   Steve

dan-l-b · July 16, 2003, 07:54:12 PM

Hey Steve, thats the recomendation of the makers of the stain

Some friends up the road did the same thing maybe 5 years ago and have had no problem 8) 8) Looks great and less filling :D :D DAn

biziedizie · July 16, 2003, 08:40:11 PM

Dan over the years I've seen new products come and go with all the fads that come out every year. I constantly get customers that say to me well it says on the bottle.....
  I wish that these so called pros that make the stuff would research with the guys in the field as to how things really work. When the makers test their products they do it in a laboratory that is in a controlled setting. In this case with the stain they would use the exact same 3' x 3' concrete slabs. The temperature would be the same, the thickness of the slabs are the same, the pour of the slabs are the same....etc.
  In the real world things aren't always the same and guys like me have to go by experience. I will never follow the instructions on a product I will always go by what I have found to work best in the conditions at the time. Sometimes I apply more sometimes less.
  If you asked me to stain your floor with a product that says it can be applied in six weeks after a pour I would have a few questions for you.
  What's the weather like and how's it been holding in the six weeks? How thick is the pour? What's the PSI rating of the concrete? Is there a 20 ml vapor barrier under the pour? Was it 3" of sand bellow it or 6"? Is there re-bar imbedded? Was there a fast dry compound added to the pour when it was mixed?
  See there's so many variables that go into doing projects of this kind that when I get customers asking me to do things like stain or tile work on fresh pours I always tell them I need six months so I won't hear about problems years later.

   Steve

Fla._Deadheader · July 17, 2003, 04:18:20 AM

Sadly, that's the way things are headed, Steve. Nobody cares. It's just "this is the greatest stuff and will work fine" (gimme all yer money) attitude today.
  All the guys on this forum are doing their best to help anyone that will ask for assistance. No one beats others over the head to make a point, unless there is a high risk of injury involved. Too bad that the "craftsmen" of the world are dying off and being replaced by "inferior" experts.
  Too much "Idiot" shows on the "TOOB" !!! Let's make a house. These people can't tie their shoes. If you tried to repeat the stuff they do on TV, yer licence would be revoked.

   I gotta find me a place where REALITY is still rising with the sun each morning.

   Gotta go pet a Gator. See ya's ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

OneWithWood · July 17, 2003, 09:12:03 AM

Try www.kemiko.com

I found the site interesting and will research this product further as it sounds like just the ticket for the basement floor after I remove the tile - when I get around to remodelling - sometime after the sawbarn is finished :D

Jeff · July 17, 2003, 12:45:13 PM

OWW thats the product I plan on using for the acid stain. My main prob is figuring out the method for the stone shapes I want. I really think the floor needs to be scored or an over lay impressed. I don't want fake lines.

beenthere · July 17, 2003, 02:46:53 PM

Now Jeff. When is a line a "fake" line and when is it not a "fake" line?? ??? ;D ;D

dan-l-b · July 17, 2003, 04:04:27 PM

Steve, I appreciate your concerns about staining my floor in 6 weeks. You asked lots of good questions, however your premise is way off.

??? Kemiko is produced by a company called Etmar, they have been staining concrete for 50 years. Barbara Sargent, the regional distributor has been selling this product for thirty years. Far from fly by night or new product as you insinuate. As stated in my previous reply, I have friends living on a beautiful Kemiko floor, stained six weeks after the pour and are still happy with it eight years later.
Jeff, Kemiko does NOT recommend you use acid to clean the concrete, does something to the lime in the concrete and the lime is what the stain reacts with :

:

CAUTION

Jeff · July 17, 2003, 04:19:57 PM

Dan, what kind of look my I have withour lines?

dan-l-b · July 17, 2003, 04:54:09 PM

Jeff, you can put lines in it. They suggest not more than an eigth inch deep in any pattern. They even show a floor stained I guess in stages, where one square or block is stained one color and the alternating block a differnent color stain. Looks really cool 8) 8) We are having the same trouble deciding on whether to score or not to score....that is the question :D :D And what pattern if we do score the floor. It is only a 20 x28 room. :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ Small squares for a small room or big squares to make the room look bigger????

dan-l-b · July 17, 2003, 04:56:05 PM

Without lines it will look most likely like a big slab of marble. 8) 8) 8) 8)

hawby · July 17, 2003, 05:04:07 PM

HI guys,

I've been so busy lately, I have only been able to lurk ... while at work. Can't comment from there, but I was talking with one of the guys about this thread and he said...

Back in the sixties, he used some kind of acid that the floor would have been changing all the time ??? I asked him what kind of acid was that? He said Lysergic...something. Said the military had used it on troops

Then I finally came out of my fog... LSD was the acid!

I work with some old hippies, man.

hawby

dan-l-b · July 17, 2003, 05:28:01 PM

Yea, yea that's the ticket, a little acid and structural integrity, scoring and staining ....no problem :D :D :D :D

Jeff · July 17, 2003, 05:41:50 PM

If I was going to score squares I would not have a problem. I want to score curved lines like large interlocking flag stones 18 inches to 30 inches in diameter I could guess. Thats were the problem comes in. I will have to score some straight lines. Probably a border out from all the walls because I wont be able to score up to a wall.

dan-l-b · July 17, 2003, 05:58:45 PM

Is there such a thing as a freehand concrete router with masonary bit. Or sandblast. Or a hammer drill with a narrow paddle bit (for tight turns) and angled so it would kinda follow itself.??? Just brainstorming ;) 8) 8)

biziedizie · July 17, 2003, 10:25:06 PM

Dan you sound like my customers, always second guessing me. :D :D :D Laugh cuz that's what I want you to do. :D :D
  Here let's set something straight, I really don't care about what product is used cuz in most cases there all the same in one way or another.
  The most important thing that goes into a job is the preperation and the application. As far as what product is the best that can can go out the window as far as I'm concerned. :D I don't watch B Villa and take his advice as he's a freaking actor that has no clue. His side kick N sure knows his carpentry though on his show. 8)
  That's cool that the guy down the street has a cool floor and it looks good. But who says it looks good??? The average home owner who has never seen this job done a few hundred times??? I've seen work that was done that a whole cul-de-sac thought it looks great but if I ever had a guy do the same work for me he would be warming the sidewalk outside of Mc-Donalds with a cup in his hands selling pens. ;D
  If Muriatic acid is mixed right it will clean the floor perfectly, I think it's 20 to 1 but then again I'm not on the job and I can't see what I'm up against. If you know of a product that can clean concrete as well as acid please let me know. Masons have been useing acid for years to clean concrete and brick. Didn't Harold already mention this???
  Anyways I've been a hands on General Contractor for way to long and I've seen just about everything go the right way and the wrong way. The longer a guys been doing the job the more he knows and the better the out come.
  Hey check out the village of Whistler B.C and look at some of the workmanship there.
  My partner and I had 81 guys up there when the town was a building boom years back.
  Oh one more thing if you have a square room and you put squares in it no matter what size squares you do you will still have a square room. Try rectangles as it will make the room look longer which is more inviting. 8)

  Jeff if you want to cut straight lines use a skillsaw with a masonary blade. It will work better then a router cuz if you hit pebbles with a router it will go around them or jump.
  For all your curves that you want to make a router will work great but don't use a carbide tip as it will heat up and be toast in minutes. Use a diamond bit as it will last for a very long time. They do make a masonary tip for the router but they don't last long.
  When you get to the walls use a dremell with the flex extension, they make a masonary tip for it but not a diamond tip. You can get right in close with it and the last bit that you can't get the baseboards will cover it up.
  K back to the acid thing, if you don't mix alot of water with the Muriatic acid to prep the floor it will react more to some parts of the concrete which will open up the pores more in some places then others. This is the way to do it if you don't etch (score) the concrete as it will soak in more of the stain making it look darker in spots then others. It will look like marble and if you play with the mixtures as you apply it will look great.

  This application can be done in 2 or 3 or 4 steps to make it look cool. 8)

   Steve