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Anyone ever finish their own hardwood flooring?

Started by oakiemac, November 19, 2008, 11:00:04 PM

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oakiemac

I made a bunch of cherry and maple flooring-first batch off the moulder. I'm really happy with it. I used low grade wood and I think the character of it is out standing. I went around the perimeter of our living room with two rows of the maple then put the cherry on the inside of this.

Anyway, next step is to sand and finish but I've never done this before. Looking for some tips and advice. ???
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Sprucegum

Laying the floor is the hard part - but you already know that  :D

I rented one of those square vibrating sanders, slower than a drum sander and less likely to gouge a hole in the floor. It was my first real wood floor so caution was the word.
Next step was an oil-based stain, then Tung oil, then varnish. A long process but I like the result. It has a deep luster that just takes care of itself but then 2 old foggies in sock feet gotta stomp pretty hard to hurt a wood floor.  8)   8)

solodan

I have only finished pine floors in place. I like to use a drum sander, you can remove alot of material quick. You can also make your first pass across the floor at an angle. Yes you will get sander marks across the grain and you will have to sand the whole floor again but this method is great for leveling the whole floor if you have some variance in height. If your border is quarter turned, then stop the sander there and sand the two rows with a belt sander. If you still have any height issues from a cupped board, then you can always take it down with a hand plane. Next get the dust off the floor, but don't pull out the vacum. Instead sweep the dust around real good to fill in between the boards , especially where you quarter turned it. That is the hardest place to keep boards tight especially wide boards.e a tack cloth to get the rest of the floor clean an the apply your stain or oil or whatever, then your top coat. I prefer oil and the oil based poly, but I still like the luster of a wax finish.

SwampDonkey

I would plane and sand before I laid it down. I never did a floor, but the dust from sanding would be all through the house even if some kind of vacuum system was on the sanding machine. That's a lot of work cleaning that mess. I just have an old farm house here with some floors uneven to beat the band. It wasn't much of a job for the floor people to put down this pre-finished oak.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

solodan

I think he already laid it. The first floor I ever did was an oak floor. I installed it with my dad when I was about 12.  We stained and finished it first. It still looks pretty good after 28 years. :) However, a floor sanded in place comes out dead flat. If I were to prefinish a floor I would put a small chamfer in the top edge. This way you don't notice the high or low spots. A prefinished floor is only a flat as the subfloor.

SwampDonkey

You'd have to sand to the sub-floor in some parts of this house to get it dead flat. Actually with this pre-finished floor it looks flat. It's an illusion of course. I won't be playing marbles, so it don't matter. :D  Perfectionists.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

oakiemac

Solodan, what do you mean my "quarter turned"? Do you seal in the sawdust with poly to help fill in any gaps?

I've been looking at some water based sealers. Supposed to stay clear and not turn yellow or dark over time also easy clean up and less fumes. I want a natural finish but I'm not sure if I should put some tung oil down first just to have the wood grain pop out more.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

SwampDonkey

The only wood I have seen that defies that claim Okiemac is black cherry. It will turn with age. But I have used water based Varathane on furniture and my other hardwood species have not turned. Now to clarify, that cherry wood turns, not the finish.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Sprucegum

I think Tung oil will darken your wood more than you might like. If you want to keep that maple bright a water based varathane would be your best bet. The draw back to varathanes is if you need to repair a spot a couple years later you will have to strip and redo the whole floor.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Sprucegum on November 20, 2008, 06:42:26 PM
The draw back to varathanes is if you need to repair a spot a couple years later you will have to strip and redo the whole floor.

Why? I don't follow.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ohsoloco

Only used water based finish once, and I don't plan on doing it ever again.  Used it on a cherry bed that I made, and I thought it looked awful...no depth or richness whatsoever, but then again I don't use stain either. 

Refinished my oak floors a couple years ago.  Like Sprucegum I rented a rectangular orbital sander.  Did a great job, but my floor was even to begin with.  Only thing about them is you don't want to keep it in one spot, always keep it moving or you'll get deep swirl marks (I got those when "stalling" along the baseboards).  Used oil based poly from janitorial supply co. that's typically used for gym floors.  Applied with lambswool pad.  The dog's still doing a number on it when she "flips out" in the house  :-\  Think dog in a cartoon that starts running before it finally takes off   :D  :(

Sprucegum

I just find it REAL DIFFICULT to blend in a spot of new varathane with the old existing surface. The transition is always noticeable  :(

Larry

I've finished several floors with Waterlox High Gloss...used to be called Gym Floor Finish.  Sometimes I used a satin topcoat to tone it down a little.  It is extremely durable...looked good in our house for maybe 12 years with zero maintaince and we had dogs.  Drawback is the high price.

I got to talking with a floor guy that has been in business forever with an excellent reputation.  He suggested I try Minwax Satin as that is all he ever used.  I did try it on our house when I was fixing it up to sell.  It looked good...I don't know about durability but my friend said it was excellent.  It is available at Sherwin Williams for about 1/2 the price of Waterlox...ask for a discount.  I put it down with lambswool...my flooring friend says a brush is better but harder to master.


Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

oakiemac

Thanks for the responses. I will check out the minwax satin. I'll try to post some pics when finished.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Sprucegum on November 21, 2008, 02:47:55 PM
I just find it REAL DIFFICULT to blend in a spot of new varathane with the old existing surface. The transition is always noticeable  :(

:D :D too fussy.

The dining room table had a rug under it for a few years while the rest of the flooring yellowed. Got rid of the rug and gave brother the dining room set and the floor was lighter under the rug. A couple years and she all looks the same now.  ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

solodan

Quote from: ohsoloco on November 20, 2008, 09:32:41 PM

Only used water based finish once, and I don't plan on doing it ever again.  Used it on a cherry bed that I made, and I thought it looked awful...no depth or richness whatsoever...


I feel the same way. Oil based finish really brings depth to the wood. So does shellac.

oakiemac, by 1/4 turned, I just mean the boards runing at a right angle to the field. If in fact you ran your border like this. It is a term that I have heard alot in the flooring industry, but no where else come to think of it. ???  It is just the floor material laid down at a 1/4 of a turn. And yes I seal in the sawdust between the cracks with the finish. :)

Norm

An easier way to get the brushed finish is to put it down with a roller using the synthetic nap and brush behind it. It's a little more work but the finish is nicer.

oakiemac

I did frame in the room with maple so I do have 1/4 turned boards. Never heard that term before but I'm new to the world of flooring.

Got most of the floor laid then ran out of flooring so it is off to the shop to whip up another batch. I really enjoy doing this floor but man has it been a lot of work. :o
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

blaze83


oakiemac,
sounds like a fun project  what type of shaper are you using to make your flooring and do you have any pictures? would love to see the wood combination and also the 1/4 turn effect.

thanks,

Steve
I'm always amazed that no matter how bad i screw up Jesus still loves me

thedeeredude

Has anyone ever used tung oil on floors?  I am getting some ash milled as we speak and was planning to use tung oil.

pigman

I am glad you are doing this project oakiemac-Steve. My wife wants me to make and put down some hardwood floor in our house. I am learning from this thread. 8) After you get  all that experience putting down your floor, you can come down and help me put mine down.. ;D
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Engineer

I put down 3" strip silver maple, unfinished.  I was scared of the drum sanders so I rented what amounted to a 18" diameter floor buffer, not an orbital machine, and the rental place sold sanding screens to use with it.  I found that I made the wrong choice.  It was agonizingly slow, there were a few spots that I just couldn't even out, and it generated a huge amount of dust that I think might still be settling after over a year...  :D  If I ever refinish the floor I'll use a drum sander and an orbital finish sander.

As for the finish - I used two coats of Zinsser Seal-Coat shellac and three coats of Minwax water-based Polyurethane For Floors.  The shellac really brought out the colors and curl in the maple, but the Minwax junk is not durable.  Oil-based floor finish next time, probably use the Waterlox product or something similar.

oakiemac

I'm using an old Stetson Ross 4 head moulder. Nice machine but it takes a while to set it up. I just found out today, after I have made all the flooring, that I ran the wood upside down thourgh the machine. The knives I bought were made for the face to be up and I ran it face down. Not much of a difference but I was told that the boards will fit together better if I run it right.

I'll get some pics here when done.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

srt

I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here.

As a cabinetmaker (custom woodworker), I finish just about everything that leaves the shop.  The stuff we make is very diverse.  Everything from custom entrance doors, cabinetry and furniture, custom millwork, and yes, occasionally even floors.  I've used just about all the finishes mentioned here, and a few more.  I don't consider myself an expert in any finish, but I do have plenty of success and some failures with all of them.

In my own house, I put down cherry flooring.   I was going to go with Oil based poly, but on jobsites, the flooring guys were really thrilled with this stuff called "traffic" by Bon Kami (?).  It's a two part water based.  They swore by it.

So, I warmed the floor up with some dewaxed shellac, scuffed it and gave it two coats of the 2 part WB finish.

It looked almost as good as an oil finish.

In a month, I was not pleased.  Here are the problems:

When it gets scratched, the "scratch" looks whiter than when Oil Based gets scratched.

Cherry, although a hardwood, and kinda brittle, is not hard.  This really surprised me, as it's a bit brittle, and takes a long time to sand (meaning hard).  Our two beagles have dented and scratched it terribly.  We have dented it also.

I don't believe Oil based finishes are as good (tough) as they used to be.  I've been told that the environmental regs are the reason.  Another reason, at least in my view, is that all the R&D money is going into WB finishes.

When I strip this floor, which means I'll have to also strip the quartersawn white oak accent and around the marble inlays, I'll replace the finish with shellac.  No top coat of poly, or anything else, except maybe a little dye added to the shellac to deepen the color just a little bit.

Shellac was a floor finish of choice years ago.  It is infinitely repairable with only a rag that has some shellac on it. 

Want to refinish the shellac floor?  Got a couple hours?  You'll spend more time moving furniture than actually refinishing.  It's just a light scuff, vacuum, tack and wipe on a new coat (repeat).  If you're not fussy, skip the vacuum and tack, as the shellac dust will melt into the new finish, but this skipped step will not give you as smooth of a finish. Don't skip the scuff, because that's how you find the bits of stuff stuck to the floor before you seal it in with another coat.  Don't need to scuff for finish adhesion, just to get the junk off the floor!

New shellac actually melts into old shellac.  I'm unaware of any other finish that can make that claim for more than a very short window (hours).  Shellac applied today will melt into shellac applied two centuries ago.

There's a product called "shellac dull" that can be added to the top coat if the shine bothers you.

You can add a very small amount of real turpentine to the shellac to help keep a wet edge.  Thinner (alcohol) is your friend when using shellac.  The worst mistake when using shellac is trying to put it on too heavy.  Several thinned down coats are much better than one thick coat.

You can buy lighter (Blond) or darker (garnet) or anywhere inbetween shellac in flake form that is dewaxed.  The flakes will last forever.  Use what you've mixed up in a few months.  It's expired when a drop put on a piece of scrap doesn't dry fast and hard enough to suit you.

Shellac is not durable.  In fact, compared to all other products other than wax, it's the least durable finish I know of.  However, it rivals the best looking finishes, and it is way, way,way easier to do a really good looking job in a repair or refinish than any other finish (except wax) that I know of. 

The Tung oil finish mentioned is also a nice non-durable finish that can be repaired easily.  The difference is that it takes weeks to do a good oil finish.  Repairs take up to days to get hard enough not to leave marks when walked on.

Since your cherry flooring sounds like it has a lot of figure, it will likely be harder than my cherry, which has very little figure.  So, it should be less likely to dent than my floor.

I'd sand that floor all the way to 150 or 180 grit before finishing.  Once you get above 120, I'd use a hand held random orbital.  I know, this is really anal, and no flooring guys I know do this, but it will do wonders for bringing out the clarity of all that figured wood. 

OK,  That's at least three cents worth.  Hope it helps and doesn't confuse.


oakiemac

Thanks srt, never though of just shellac. Where can you buy dewaxed shellac? If I read your post correctly you sand to 120 grit then orbital hand sand then clean and tack then apply the shellac with a small amount of turpentine for wet edge?
what do you mean by scuff?
This finish sound interesting. I have been thinking about a non traditional type finish especially something easy to apply and fix.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

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