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Forcat 2000 VS Conventional Log skidder

Started by Good Feller, November 17, 2008, 03:12:18 PM

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james

the other problem with a track machine in snow is that on a side hill those steel tracks make great ice skates and a real harry ride :o :o :o
james (speaking from experience)

Maineloggerkid

Ya, ice cleats are almost something you have to have.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

mad murdock

I agree with the above sentiments.  Better off buying used Iron, i.e. International S8, JD 440, old TJ or whatever.  I bought a Garrett model 15 diesel skidder from craigslist for 3,000.00.  The winch still needs some work, but it is a good old machine, and will last forever.  I do not use it fuull time, though I have drug out about 8 truckloads with it in the last 2 years.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

John Woodworth

Having run skidders for over 30 years now would be hard to convince me that any kind of production at all could be had with the Forcat, it's time and place is for small logs and small jobs.Skidders in my oppinion are the most unuversal and cost effective way to yard yet tracks have their own place at a price. I've run the big Deere's and Cat skidders in the past and presently have two Garret 21's and a Garret 10. The Garret is a economical skidder to run and work on and the 21's will pull with the best on 40 gallons of fuel a week verses 40 gallons a day with the others.
The Forcat with it's 8000 pound winch compared to my Garret 10 with a 8000 pound winch would be no comparison as far al production however it would be good for thinning but they need to get the butts off the ground which I think would create a rolling over condition on sharp hard pulls. I don't know what they cost but log prices today for small jobs have to be figered in and prices here in the North West today wouldn't justify the cost.
I personaly would recomend a serious look at used skidders to anyone just look close at what you are bying and if you run across a Garret the old girl will work it's heart out for you.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Shawn Bevins

Somethings need to be clarified, the gas powered unit does not exsist anymore, we phased it out because of overheating and lack of power, the new unit has a 36 hp Perkins deisel engine and can skid up 3 times it's own weight 4100 lbs X 3 = 12300 lbs , as for parts we have all parts in stock and ready to ship to anywhere in North America within 24 hours.  I have included a link for our new video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOh3PLvjKso  and tech specs for your review, we will also in the very near future offer this unit with a standard skidsteer plate front and rear so all the attachments you see at this link http://www.quick-attach.com/  will fit onto the machine, also the name of the machine has been changed to OXTRAC.

tughill

Personally, I think a Deere350/450 or Cat D3/D4 with a winch and log arch is the way to go.  I guess it's all relative, if you are considering using a 4 wheeler, then you are not really thinking much about production, and the Forcat would be relatively better, but fairly expensive, and probably hard to sell (for a reasonable price) if and when you want to get rid of it.  Old skidders are kinda the same to me, right now for example the log markets are bad, so logging equipment is very difficult to sell.  Older dozers are always in demand for farmers, do it yourselfers, loggers, etc. more so than an old skidder.  As far as track problems, to me it's no better or worse than tire problems.  Ultimately if you are not mechanically inclined, you probably shouldn't be getting involved with any of this equipment.

Good luck, this whole thing is kinda like auto racing, "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"
"Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not."- Thomas Jefferson
Local Farmer here won 10$ million in the lottery, when asked what he was going to do with his winnings, responded, "Keep on farming until that's all gone too."

mahonda

Well just to add some worry to your dilemma, We bought a used skidder a number of years back. Cat 508 grapple skidder. ran great to start worked really well, put a plow on it to push snow, and it pushes a ton. so after about a year we lost the engine. okay new reman was about 8 thousand i think after all the mechanic costs. so about six months after that lost the torque converter. not to bad to fix but couldn't find a new one for almost four months. so after that we welded the center pivot back together new pins, bushings, few hoses and the tranny still leaks. we have a 550g dozer with almost 20,000 hours and still starts and runs great put lots of tracks on it though, but tires or tracks its all money. and if you have tires you almost have to have chains in the winter and they cost almost as much or more than the tires. But don't give up if it was me and i had a few jobs to do and not looking at going full time, RENT deere and cat will rent a small dozer with a winch for a little bit especially good deal if you have the job all cut. so just have to skid while you got it rented so its not sitting there. Good luck and renting means they turn the wrenches my favorite part
"If your lucky enough to be a logger your lucky enough!"
Burly aka Dad

sjfarkas

I'd still take a bobcat track machine over all options mentioned any day.  
Always try it twice, the first time could've been a fluke.

nas

Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
2002 WM LT40HDG25
stihl 066
Husky 365
1 wife
6 Kids

beenthere

Well nas. That one certainly looks stuck.  ::) ::)

Ya think?? ???     ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

4genlgr

i was going to suggest a 4wd compact tractor and a threepoint hitch winch then i read "logs to big   land to steep"
my 40hp JD 990 with a farmi winch can do quite a bit but most of the time i cut out the big logs in the woods take them out and come back for the rest   smaller trees come out full lenght, and the bucket is nice (multi purpose machine)
from the sounds a small skidder would fit your bill better with the ground yyou discribed  hunt around there should be a good used not abused one out there some where

bill m

 Good Feller
  Don't let everyone tell you that you can't make a living with a small machine. I am using a 55 hp. tractor with a grapple/winch on back and a metavic log trailer with loader and use less than 15 gal. of fuel a week. The pine on the job I did last winter averaged 800 ft. per tree and I did well enough last winter to take most of the summer off. I know this set up will not work on every site but on real steep and rocky ground it's hard to make good money with any size machine unless your getting the wood for almost nothing. Small machines do have their place in this business, you just have to decide what type of jobs you want to take on and size your equipment accordingly.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

sjfarkas

I've never seen a skidsteer stuck that bad.  Generaly if one of those goes down then anything will go down. 
Always try it twice, the first time could've been a fluke.

nas

The operator worked pretty hard at getting it that stuck :D

Nick
Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
2002 WM LT40HDG25
stihl 066
Husky 365
1 wife
6 Kids

Warren

I am with Ironwood.  If money is an issue, look for alternatives at a cheap price.  JJKane just had a utility company auction near where I work.  They had a Rayco stumper consigned.  Big machine, no attachmetn on the front, big hydraulic winch on the back.  All it needed to pull wood was to weld some type of arch above the winch.

They also had a smaller tracked Ditch Witch machine.  No winch on the back.  But more than enough hydraulic circuits to run a winch. Plus plenty of room in the rear for a winch and arch.  Already had a small blade in the front that would be useful for yarding and stacking.

Unfortunately, I was out of town the day of sale.  I know a good number of units went dirt cheap. Still trying to find out final selling prices on the track units...

-w-
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

Ironwood

I got my 24 HP 4x4 tractor stuck cleaning out my burn pit this past few days, actually the 4WD went out and I was WAY down over the edge in the hole and did not have a rear implement to counter weight the front, so there I ws WAYYY stuck, I grabed my little Yanmar crawler and a cable, thinking "no way" especially by myself w/ no one to run the tractor and the hydraulic locks the wheel when not pushing a pedal (Hydrostat), well #$^ if it didn't just drag it out w/ out a breath. It had al four tires dragging on the tractor and the ground while a little slick I thought it would create more of a traction issue for the Yanmar than help w/ the tractor tires. So this has me thinking that perhaps this little Yanmar may make a great little skidder for "occassional" use. I have been around skidders and know I will never pull a skidder sized twitch but I dont think many of us have any idea how crawlers can pull and the traction and weight dispersment issues, myself included. I am learning on this little capable unit that it is pretty neat. I think a SERIOUS small skidder could be built w/ a small footprint, and OVER sized engine.

                   

             Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

moonhill

I stopped at the neighbors to day to look at his new tractor, it had a farmi winch on the back.  I wanted to look at the winch.  When I got home I started looking on line and came across the Forcat 36D, the tracked skidder discussed a bit in this topic.   I think it is a neat rig.  I have always had an affection for small scale things.  My land is wet in a lot of areas, not so wet it is swamp but I know my L35 Kobota will not work in such conditions, an ATV is too small.   I see the Forcat as fitting in between a small skidder and the tractor, and quite comfortably too.  The price is up there as noted, but you could easily wear out a new ATV once or twice at which point you have compensated for the cost of the Forcat.  It seems much more maneuverable than either a tractor or the ATV.  By the way it is priced around the same as a small tractor.  The little tractor will be beat up a little as well.   

That is a nice size log being pulled in the clip on the 2nd page.  Flat ground, no obstacles, lets see it in a real setting.  I wish they would show some video of it in 2' of snow.  How about one stuck like the machine on the 2nd page. 

It is almost Christmas, though I would dream a little.  That is when it starts to get dangerous.

I have to go back to the search window and see if there is more discussion on these skidders. 

When I found the Forcat on line, I first thought, the FF should have some discussion and it did, thanks. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

thecfarm

Wait until you see one up close.I saw one at a show.I was not that impressed,What about a small dozer?You can make anything look good on a video.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

moonhill

That is the caution.   The one you saw at the show, was it the improved version or the older one with the gas engine and 1000 pounds lighter? 

I saw a question in some other thread asking if there was any in the Maine or New Hampshire area, it was an older post, I would put that question out once more.  The machine would for sure need to be seen in action.   I read many comments but not much input form first hand experience.  I think I saw one direct positive view, most others were form a larger skidding perspective, all very sensible I must add. 

I don't see a small dozer as being an efficient tool, yes it could do the job, so could my little tractor.  I see problems with both options.  Reading over the old post I am also leery of older machinery and being stuck with a track off or some such issue, I want to skid wood not repair old machinery. 

I find there is no such thing as an all around multi purpose tool, there is always a compromise somewhere.  I would rather have a tool specific to the job than one which will do it with restrictions.   

Tim   

This is a test, please stand by...

Ironwood

I bought this unit reasonable. It seems there are some smallish track dumps out there that would be up to the task, reasonable cost and high floation. I saw a slightly bigger IH-30 in our equipment trader for $10,000. Combined w/ and arch (for the REALLY big ones) it would work well. I have looked at mine and thought the bed could be removed, or made quickly removable and a hydraulic winch put behind the crane. I am going out today to play w/ it in the snow to see how it behaves.

Ironwood







There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

moonhill

How wide/long it that rig and what does it weigh? 

I have a Swap loader on my truck, I wonder if a similar setup would fit on your rig.  You can just dump it off on the ground and lift on something else. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

Ironwood

I call those "hooks", or hook truck. Is that what you mean?

The crawler weighs about 5000#. I am going out to run it in the snow ;D Curious how it might work. I have NO expectation of any kind. Side hills on tracks are dangerous, so if I do some bad weather work I may look into tracks w/ some degree of protection from that. I have seen some designs that address this.

    Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

lancek

Well everybody is going to laugh at me but the only way to do proper tsi work is with horses a good team of horses with a little bit of training and your up and running! The set up will cost you less than $ 4,000.00 and most of it will reproduce itself.And your fuel cost will only be $150.00 per month! And I know that there is going to be the comment that a team cant move as much as a skider but I disagree with that . I say you dont have to because you dont have the expences that you do with a skidder! And there is allso tecnolagy out there that will inhance your capabilitys and get to the point of doing what a skidder will do with out the resedual damage! May I suddgest going to Draft Animal Power - Sustainable Farming, Forestry and Living http://www.draftanimalpower.com/index.php?s=ef04614d3939008b451169e83afed7be this site has a lot of good info on horse logging and farming that might intrest you

Ironwood

No laughing here. My land would work well w/ horses, moderate downslope to the field. And I here you on the proxy damage.

                   Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Ironwood

Well it is no deep snow machine, too heavy. BUT it will SKID. The current physics are bad (hitch point WAY out the back, due to the crane), I am thinking of making the bed and rear part of the bed sub-frame removeable. I will mount a hydr. winch in the center frame bay just behind the crane base and use four Reese reciever style mount points to slip the subframe back together (at each frame member). This would allow me to use the bed hydr controls for the winch and I could use the Reese points to put on a "pan" to prevent logs from jamming the tracks (like a miniature version of what you see on the back of a JD440). This log is a BIG pine, I would guess 5000# or so, 15', pretty much a dead drag, as the end isnt really elevated. The snow obviously helps.

This really shows me a smallish unit could be a skidder for limited use. I guess limited is the key. For me, it will work fine, if you where trying to make a living on volume commodity work, it would not. 

Ironwood

 









There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

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