Relaskops!!

[chainspinrunner]

  I was wondering if anyone out there in the forestry world uses the Spiegel Relaskops for measurements. Just curious, I haven't seen them used or heard of them being used...

[Clark]

After using this device and realizing what a number of things it does, it has occurred to me that it still isn't worth $1500+.  Sure it's convenient but there has to be a way that an industrious person could make them for $400 and sell 'em for far less than the current street price.  Curiosity has gotten the better of me, so I'm curious, has anyone tried to do this in the past?  Is there some all-encompassing patent that Dr. Bitterlich has on his invention that would prevent one from building and selling their own model? 

Clark

[Tillaway]

All the time in the NW.  Much easier and faster than prisms.  I have used Wide Scales in BC and American Scales everywhere else.

[Tillaway]

I demo'ed one of these a while back.  Same price as the relakop but a few more features.
http://www.lasertech.com/saf/RD1000.html

[SwampDonkey]

I've used Spiegel's, even does slope correction for those up slope trees.  8) We always used 9 in juvenile timber and 12-1/4 m²/ha in 250+ year old timber. Even at that we could get some plots with 12 trees.  : Real big old cedar stands, that you had to wrap 2-7.5 m long tapes around to get diameter, I think we used 16 m²/ha.  ;)

The relaskope is fine as long as it remains water proof and doesn't fog up. Expensive piece of equipment for being low tech. :D

[SwampDonkey]

As I stated in the other thread, very expensive for as low tech as low can go. :D I think I'd be carrying some angle gauges or prisms. You can build an angle gauge right on the spot. ;D

[Tom]

The two threads were merged to prevent confusion at a later date.

[chainspinrunner]

Thanks all, I have used them a couple of times in the NE and feel that for the price they aren't too important but it is good to see where and how they actually are used! 8)

[Clark]

Well, now that my query has been buried under the vague, but exciting, heading of "Relaskops!!" I might as well answer your question.

They do come in pretty handy.  One tool will find heights, tapers, BA (in about 20+ BAFs), slope, correct for slope and probably some more that I'm not aware of.  If you don't need it for tapers or for other slope correcting measurements, it's pretty hard to justify spending the money.  I'm sure that if the price was reasonable they would find more use in the eastern US. 

As SD hinted at, they can get water in them, fog up and you're done using it.  They are not high tech and while they are fairly rugged, forget trying to fix them in the field, especially if it's raining.  Besides getting water in them, there are several other things that can go wrong inside them, ruining your day.

Getting back to my question, does anyone know if there are any restrictions from the original patents that would prevent one from building and selling their own relaskop?

Clark

[madhatte]

Sorry about the Necro-Bump.  Hadda chime in, though, and this seems to be the best way to do it. 


Yes, Relaskops are overpriced.  No, there should be no reason why somebody else can't build one for cheaper.  Yes, there are lots of instruments that do much of what a Relaskop does for cheaper.  However, I have never known another instrument that let me do proportions so quickly and easily.  This is especially important when defecting while cruising.  Why count bars when you can simply note that 12" is 1/2 of DBH, find a spacing that pretty nearly fills DBH across the bottom, then scroll up until half the area is covered?  Short of cutting the beast down, this is the best and fastest method I know of to quickly estimate a diameter that cannot otherwise be measured directly. 

Also:  they're really easy to work on.  Not so with digital gear. 

[jrdwyer]

We used them when I worked for SPI cruising timber in northern CA. I remember it being quick for getting form class, handy on slopes, and also being somewhat hard to read on rainy days because of not enough light getting in.

[madhatte]

somewhat hard to read on rainy days because of not enough light getting in.

That's an understatement.

[SwampDonkey]

We couldn't use them on steep slope for slope correction for "in or out"on close calls. It was Ministry of Forest policy to slope correct and use limiting distance. But if you were well within it was fine. Also, diameters were all taped, so them close ones had to be corrected anyway because a tape takes a better average of those out of round trees. Some places back east here it's the diameter calipered facing plot centre, yet I was never told to do it that way in college. It was always supposed to be averaged. Which gives more accurate tally, otherwise your one or two diameter classes above or below the actual size of the tree. No way to say that would average out because of the sample size and actual diameter distribution. Of course in BC we had no diameter classes, it was the diameter to the nearest millimetre on the tape. Plots were check cruised by the Ministry as well. Two major screw ups, in counts and wide discrepancy in diameter and a complete block recruise was called for. ;D

[madhatte]

I got me one of these here which makes everything easy.  Still carry the Relaskop, though, for finding DIB up the bole and for general BAF stuff. 

[pappy19]

For the difference in $1500 Realascope and a $15 angle guage, there is no comparison. On questionable trees, just measure, only takes a little longer and even with a Realascope, they could be wrong on close trees.

[madhatte]

Honestly?  If I had to buy one, I wouldn't bother.  However, I already have the thing, and it's really good for what it's made for, so I use it.  It does make scaling estimates a snap.