log moving woes

[oakiemac]

I'm new to saw milling (loving every minute) and have only moved and cut rather small logs, that is until Monday. A friend gave me a 24' long 26" DIB red oak that blew down in a storm. I cut the log into 3- 8' sections. Now the fun really begins! I don't have any big equipment, just a truck with a front winch, two cant hooks, a come-along and a teenage son. It took us two mornings and several gallons of sweat to get just one 8' log onto the trailer.(I loved every minute of it) I guess my question is, what is the easyiest way of moving these logs with out purchasing large equipment? The winch was able to pull the logs to the road side, then we fought with the biggest for a long time to get it parrallel to the road so we could winch it up the planks and into the trailer. What a lot of work!! Does anyone have any tips or cheaper pieces of equipment that I should get?  ??? Did I mention that I'm loving every minute?

[Furby]

Do you have any pics.? If I can see the trailer it might help.
Does your winch come off the truck or do you have a front hitch on the truck?
I managed to get my 40" 8' pine OFF the trailer over the fender with a jack, a come-along, and a lot of sweat. ;D The 32" 8' is still on because I don't want any marks on it and the halves are to heavy to lift. ;D
I got a few ideas to get them ON, but I need more info. and pics. would be great.

[Kevin]

You can use multiple blocks and reduce the pull weight .

[oakiemac]

Tomorrow, I'll try to post some pics. The winch is mounted on the front bumper and doesn't come off.

[Kevin]

That's less than 2k lbs., you might consider a rope or wire rope portable winch.

[Neil_B]

Here's what you need oakiemac ;D

[SW_IOWA_SAWYER]

I had a similar issue.  ???  I had two trucks, a trailer, two cant hooks, and a cheap electric winch. I went out and bought two snatch blocks and hooked one to the trailer near the tongue. We hooked a cable to the log then the snatch block and then to the truck. It worked great you just slowly pull the log right up the trailer. When you get to where you are going you just reverse the process and out they slide. 8)

[DanG]

Fla_Deadheader and I have both built rigs on our trailers for loading big logs. It consists of an arch on the rear of the trailer that swivels back and forth. Mine is on the brackets where the ramps were, and his is mounted a bit forward. The arch drops back behind the trailer and rests against chains. Fasten the choker to the arch, and when you pull it forward with the winch, it raises the log and places the end of it on the trailer. For larger logs, like yours, I use a chain fall to raise it a bit, first, then I have a way to loosen the chain when the log is resting on the trailer.  You need to set it on some kind of roller. I have used small logs, fence posts and pipes for rollers. You will need several rollers.
FDH has posted several pics of his arch, and maybe we can get him to post a series of pics of his rig in action. Search his posts to find the pics. I don't have picture posting capabilities, or I'd do it myself.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Hey oakiemac,
I have tred about every difficult, tiring and ignorant way to get a log there is...well maybe not all yet........... But I am wondering would a log arch help you?..... you roll it over a log(it has wheels) and lift it up either all the way or 1/2 up on the big boys...then tow it like a trailer....For a trailer I like danG's set up for his trailer...is one of best ideas goin,   I usually unload from a trailer or small truck by hooking chokers or chains to a tree and to the logs and simply pull them out.
Don

[solidwoods]

A beater log truck side arm/load type is about $1000.
Take 4wd lg. truck and hack it to a log truck.  Frame behind cab with winch or winches pulley mounted ,cable runs straight back.
A burial vault delivery truck works.
A cherry picker truck (could also load the mill)

I bought "Big Yellow" 72 intl w/ prentice H series $6500
If you will be getting much logs or milling much logs, a boom truck is priceless (especially compared to 1 accident)
JIM

[Bibbyman]

We've just passed the 100 hour mark on our Terex we got just a few months ago and it's been work hard for us.


This is the "small end" of a 14' water oak.

We are thinking of getting a log grapple or a set of log forks with a top clamp to more safely move logs.  The forks are such that they don't roll back far enough to assure that an odd shaped log won't roll off the forks if you go down a slight incline.

[Ron Wenrich]

How are you guys loading the trailer?  From the end or from the side?

Before there had knuclebooms, they used to load sleds, wagons and trucks from the side.  They had a couple of ramps for the side.  I've seen pictures where they were notched.

Then, they looped a cable or chain from the side of the truck bed, around the log, and over to the horses or mules.  They easily walked big logs onto the trucks.  

You might be able to adapt that old technology to your winching system.  Rolling a log is a lot easier than sliding it.

[Furby]

 Ron, that works fine if your deck is above your wheels. If your trailer is like mine and has 8-10" fenders above the deck, then you need longer, and stonger ramps with a flat area at the top to get over the fenders. If you can weld up a set, ok, but they must be reinforced at the joint of the angle and flat area or you end up with a mess!
 The other problem is getting them back off! On mine I have the fenders on the side, and I also have grating raised about 3/4" above the deck along the back end. I can't pull the logs off, or roll them.
 I have been thinking about making a set of loaders like some portable mills have, only on the trailer. You can use an old lawnmower engine to drive the hyd. pump. The thing is it will add more weight to the trailer and I won't be able to get as many logs on.

[biziedizie]

  You could always get behind the log and pretend that your the little engine that could and keep saying to yourself....I think I can!...I think I can!....I think I can! 8)


    Steve

[Percy]

Heya Bibby
Nice unit. I was lookin at the Bobcat Tool Carrier similar to yours and was wondering what you think..Can you load a 4 foot wide lift onto a truck??High enuff to load a semi?? Looks like the ticket as I had to buy an old forklift just for loading trucks(bobcat is too wimpy) and with a unit like that, a guy could just have the one machine for everything...hopefully ;D

[oakiemac]

Just an update on the log moving. We went back today and got the rest of the logs. It's not that bad of a job, but is definately hard work. we used a come-a-long and loaded the trailer from the side with ramps and a v chain. The hardest part is turning the logs so they are parallel to the trailer. I set some old tires in the trailer so the logs would fall unto them. We we got home I simply unhooked the trailer, drove around and winched the logs off.
I liked the trailer set up that DanG and Florida double header had. I plan on building something similar. But side loading is sometimes the only way to load the trailer like it was for these logs that we just got. I would of had to of shut the whole road down to back the trailer in. Anyways, I think a tractor with forks or a fork lift is the way to go....maybe next year! ;D

[solidwoods]

If the truck pulling the trailer has pwr steer, you may have enough hyd. pwr.
JIM

[DanG]

My winch is a MileMarker hydraulic jobbie that works off the power steering pump....works great, and I don't have to worry about batteries. Mine is the 10,500lb model. Last week I pulled a full-size Dodge truck out of the ditch in front of my place. Had to tie my truck to a tree to keep from going in with him. :D   The winch is a 2-speed, and the low one is really a grandma, but I ain't found anything I can't pull with it....yet.   It pulls full strength with the truck at an idle, and I can't even hear the difference in the engine speed. The winch is mounted in the truck bed, just behind the cab.
BTW, a wrecker driver friend of mine couldn't believe I pulled that truck out without doubling on a snatch block. ;D

[oakiemac]

DanG, that hyd winch sounds like the ticket but I don't have power steering on my '68 IH. The electric winch mounted on the front bumper works pretty good though. I'd like to get another winch mounted in the back of the truck or on the trailer. Always something that you need!

[SteveS]

  Before I got my new flatbed trailer,  8)I used a 16ft utility type trailer for picking up free logs. I used 2 or 3  4x4 for ramps and a rope looped under the log and back over the trailer. I is really surprising how big of a log you can load like this. It is hard on the trailer when it drops of the rail onto the trailer deck though.
  I made some steel ramps for the new trailer but still use the rope and roll them up the side. Dad and me found our manual limit the other day when we loaded a SYP log that was about 22" and 10' long. He would anchor the rope and I would use a cant hook. We also have one of those $50 harbor freight "carry around" winches we use for the big ones, but it is really slow. If you have room enough you can always hook onto another vehicle and pull it up that way.
  Below is some pics of my new trailer and ramps and some free logs. In the background you can see the start of my sawshed.

[Mark M]

I have a smaller trailer 5x10 that I use. Made an adapter to put my Lewis winch between the truck and the trailer and a heavy duty metal ramp about 30 inches wide that hooks on to the back of the trailer for the logs to slide up. I hook onto the end of the log and pull them up into the trailer with the winch. When it is time to unload I have a pulley with a ring in it that hooks to the back of the trailer. I run the cable to the back, through the pulley, and then hook onto the log at the front of the trailer. The winch pulls them back out, all except the last foot or so. I then drive the trailer out from under the log. Some times they stick so I have to drive out fast. I then back into the logs with the trailer and push them even with the sawmill.

Works pretty good.

Mark

[wscott]

Steve S
  What is the size of the steel flat bars you are using?
 
thanks
wscott

[Furby]

Looks like 2"x6" box tubing? ???
Looks a lot easier then the ones I've seen. : D

[Fla._Deadheader]

Oakie,  Them junkyards is FULL of power steering pumps. There HAS to be a place to hook one up to yer engine. Just plumb it to the winch.
  About the electric winch and battery scenario. We use a 15000# warn winch on the boat. I pull with it sometimes, until the winch barely turns. We get near a full day, IF the battery is topped off in the AM. The battery is a 4D--Tractor type.
  On the trailer, I have a 9000# Warn and have 1 battery for it, AND, have a wire from the truck battery to the winch battery. If the trailer battery gets weak, I start the truck and connect the wire to the weak battery. It's worked for 2 years, so far, without a hitch, except for dirty corroded connections, (my fault). Use what ya got. Just do some figgerin.  : ;D ;D
  On the flatbed trailer, I load from the end, and I carry a couple pieces of 2" pipe and lay them under a BIG log, as it gets to the deck. The log will roll very easily, in BOTH directions, on AND off. There's no reason to make this difficult OR hurt yerself.  ;D :D :D

[Mark M]

Steve

Tell us more about the trailer (size, capacity, etc), that's a nice one.

mark

[D._Frederick]

Fla._,
Do you have floatation built into your pontoons, or what keeps you from sinking yourself with that 15000lbs of pull?

[Oregon_Rob]

I came by a 5hp post hole digger. It's output shaft turns 144 RPM'S at 160 ft*lbs.
I was thinking about coming up with a winch set up using this. I was thinking about using chain and gears to reduce it down 4:1 and use a 4" drum. This should give me about 3800 lb. Straight line pull. I know it's not that much, but I was thinking about making a catspin (sp?) type winch (where you constantly have a spool turning and you loop the rope around as many times as needed), and using some strong rope and blocks. That way I could get my total pull up pretty high and not have to winch slack in and out.

[Fla._Deadheader]

"D", flotation is the wrong word. Displacement is the word. Ever wonder why a battleship floats??? Displacement.
  I got a built-in system for not sinking. When the water starts running over the top of the transoms, I ease up, a "little". :
  Actually, the very front compartment is airtight, except for the vent, to relieve moisture from sweating, I hope !!
 There are 2-- four foot compartments and 2 10 foot ones. The 4' aft compartmennt is open and has the batteries and fueltanks and other miscellaneous stuff to stumble around on. Oh yeah, the bilge pumps, too, for overworkng the winch and rain water.

[beenthere]

Novajack has a capstan winch that is supposed to pull 2000 pounds using a small gas engine.

http://www.novajack.com/en/0101_05.htm

Just for kicks, I would like to find a capstan head that could be connected to a gear box, similar to what Oregon_Rob has in mind.

Seems to be a well-controlled way to winch logs or whatever and where ever. A bit shy of the 15,000 # pull that DH has on his winch.  ;D

[Kevin]

Just for kicks, I would like to find a capstan head that could be connected to a gear box, similar to what Oregon_Rob has in mind.  

Baileys has one.

[D._Frederick]

Fla._,
It sounds like you have enought compartments to stay afloat. The Titanic(sp) had enought displacement, but it sank! If it had enought flotation (air tight compartments) it would  not have sunk.  Anyway, you know what you are doing, the average guy would have drowned himself in your business.
Do those logs suck themselves that tight to the bottom that you sink yourself breaking them loose?

[Fla._Deadheader]

"D", The l0gs have been there for over 100 years. They have been rolled and covered and uncovered with sand and mud, all this time. Even the ones that you can see (feel) laying partially uncovered, sometimes take a good pull to get them loose. Usually, you start seeing bubbles (sometimes). If a 30" dia X 35' log is completely covered, I have to pull down to transom level and just sit and wait, OR, run the boat to and fro while pulling. We have about 5 that the tongs would not fit and Ed could not dig a spot under it for the cable to go through.
  We gotta get bigger tongs. I made a set out of 1¼" cold rolled. Pulled 'em straight 3 different times. They would hook a 38" log. ;D
  Oh, BTW, we Don'T work when the ice starts building up. We Don'T wanna sink, either !! ;) :D :D :D :D :D

[FeltzE]

For moving logs by hand I would recommend that you keep several pieces of 6" by 8' hardwood on hand and a couple of angled blocks.

First put a couple of the 6" planks out like rail road rails (but flat on their sides) next to the log. This will allow you to roll the log without a lot of rolling friction in the grass and dirt. When you need to redirect the log take one of the tapers and place it at the balance point of the log roll the log from the end that will swing the farthest and roll the log up the incline. As the inclined block takes the weight and the log begins to teeter you can pivot it nicely to the new direction to roll. Ease it back off the incline remove it, place a couple of runners to roll the log on and proceed in the new direction.

The key is to balance and pivot the log to turn it, and also to use the planks to reduce your rolling friction.

I hope that that makes some kind of sence to ya, if it dosn't you will just have to wait for the instructional video... ;D

[Fla._Deadheader]

Yup FeltzE. If ya use the weight of the log to your advantage, it is NOT difficult to move a very large log, by hand. I have used a piece of 2 X 4 under a log, to get it near the balance, while on the ground, and then swing it, as you stated.
  Are you not the feller that had the Belsaw edger for sale, that you told me about?? I responded to your post and never heard back from ya ???

[SteveS]

 The metal for my ramps is 2 x 6", 3/16" thick. They are working out real nice.

The trailer is a 5 ton Big Tex with electric brakes. It is only 16' long. The main runners of the trailer are 10" I beam. It is sure enough heavy duty. I had planned on building a trailer, but found a pretty good deal on this one.  The tounge weight was a little more than I thought it would be so I went and got me some air bags for my 1/2 pickup. Everything worked out pretty good. I know I need a bigger truck, but for right now It will have to make due.

[D._Frederick]

Fla._,
I think that cold rolled shaft has too low of a tensile strength for making tongs. A better steel would be spring stock, but it may require tempering after forging. I have two different sizes of tongs that my father forged out of Ford rear axles that dated before WWII. They will stand the pull of my TD 6, but do some times pull out. I hope that your son stays clear of the tongs when you start to pull. They save a lot of labor, but are dangerous if they pull free. How much whip back do they have in water?

[Fla._Deadheader]

"D", yer absolutely correct about the cold rolled. I have no way to temper them, and, when I pull, I never know when to stop with the big tongs. My forge set-up is small. The smaller ones, store bought, will either hook or pull through the soft sapwood. The tongs probably don't move more than the distance of the depth of the boat was when pulling. I'm sure the water takes all the energy out of the whiplash.
    I passed the cable and shackle through the eye on the tongs. That way, if ya hook, just do it. If ya ned the shackle, that feeds through the eye without the weight of the tongs.

[Carl_B]

does anyone use one of these to move logs?

[Mark M]

Hey Carl - show us some more pictures of dat thing! I've been wanting to build one and yours looks like a good design.

Mark

[EZ]

Hey that log arch is one of a kind, that's pretty cool.
EZ

[Plowboy]

I'm Carl B's son and I helped build the log arch.  We first used it this winter and moved about 50 logs from a field edge.  It worked great, my Honda Recon 250 pulled all the logs out.  I thought this was pretty impressive considering the four wheeler is only a 2wd, and there was about 4-6 inches of snow to contend with. I have recently updated my four wheeler to a 350 4wd to pull the arch around.  

The arch is pretty simple and easy to use, just back into the log and fish a chain around and hook to the chain hoist.  The only thing we might do different is to put a set of torsion bar axles under it so you could pull it behind the pick up a little easier.  Might consider something a little different than a chain hoist to lift the logs, like a boat winch.  It's something to think about.    Plowboy.

[LeeB]

FDH,  
        I don't know a whole lot about tempering, but was wondering if you could get high enough temps in the kitchen oven? A freind of mine tempers knife blades that way. LeeB

[Fla._Deadheader]

Hi Lee. I really have no idea how hot the stel needs to be. That is one area that I have no experience in. The big problem is, the 2 tong pieces are over 40" long, each. Takes a good size heat source to get it the same temp all the way from tip to tip ???

[FeltzE]

FDH,

Yup it's me with the edger pack, I don't remember any replies or calls about it so I sent it up to my brother near Buffalo NY. He is rebuilding a 42" circular saw now. (HE hasn't a clue what he's doing) so it should be an interesting year.

Eric

[Don P]

This is roughly from my Dad's book "Metalwork- Technology and Practice" 1947...its a IA textbook of his from ECTC, price $4.40.

First, steel to be tempered is hardened by heating it to its particular "critical temperature" then quickly quenched. This leaves the steel fine grained but brittle. Then the steel is reheated and the temper is drawn to the point you need and again quickly quenched. Steel is annealed, or softened, by taking it to its critical temperature and letting it cool slowly.

The critical temperature can be found by using a magnet. Steel is magnetic until critical temperature is reached, then it becomes non-magnetic. At this point quickly cool the steel, it will be file hard. By softening it just a little it will be hard but tough.

To temper the hardened steel polish to bright and place it on a red hot piece of  metal, as it heats it will change color according to the degree of temper. The temperatures for tempering are from 400-600 degrees F. When the right color appears quickly quench it in cool water.
FDH, have you got any friends at the local pizza joint, their ovens are about 4' long  :D.

	For Tempering
Degrees F		Color		kind of tool
430F		yellow		scrapers, hammers, lathe tools
470F		straw		punches, dies, hack saw blades, drills, taps, knives, reamers
500F		brown		axes, wood chisels, drifts
540F		purple		cold chisels, center punches, rivet sets
570F		blue		screw drivers, springs, gears, picks

[Fla._Deadheader]

I may not be correct here, but, I think what I need is Tensile strength. The tips of the tongs might need to be tempered but, how would I draw the right color, all the way down the entire length of each tong???  Back in Metal Shop class, we made cold chisels and such. That is what Don P just posted.
   This is one subject I wish I knew more about.  A Blacksmith would know, but, They ain't too common in these parts : ;D ;D
  Thanks for the info Don. I have had other projects that needed Tensile Strength added, but, as above, ??? ???

[Frank_Pender]

Oregon-rob, Ithink I might have what it isyou are looking for.  I have a 90* gear box that has a ratio of 4 to 1.  You can run this off a hydraulic type unit or off of a pto system from a tractor.  There is a chain sprocked on one shaft at this time that is 4" in diam.    Come on South this next weekend if you like and we will see if it will work for you and your project.  

[Don P]

Yup, thats where I switch to oak over pine to get the tensile up :D.
I think thats where you're getting into the mix of the steel, even tempering a piece of low carbon to the right color wouldn't give you much. I think springs have vanadium ??? to add tensile strength?

[Oregon_Rob]

Frank,
I have to double check with the boss, but I should be able to be there early Sat AM. I have to be back in Banks by 1:30.

[lamar]

About heat treating those tongs.Seeing there cold rolled steel there isnt much carbon in it,so you cant hurt it much.If it was 4140 heatreat you would have to be carefull on to hard so it will brake not bend.In this case try using a ecetelyen torch.Heat to cherry red and quench in oil.You can use drain oil (do this outside)then test with grinding stone for sparks.softer reder harder finer,sounds differnt to. If this dosent work try a water quench.With cold roll it probebly wont do much good to draw back the temper Larry

[Fla._Deadheader]

Larry, I have a 20" forge that I built and it will get the steel red for , well, 20". Each tong is 4' long. We used 2 torches and got the steel bent to the correct shape. It was difficult to find something large enough to quench the whole thing, so, we used 2 garden hoses. I figgered it would not work, and, I was right. It is soft enough that when we hook a log, and start pulling, the tongs will straighten from the X to the tips, as I keep pulling. There is no way to know what is happening underwater. This is, however, a VERY hard pull. It wouldn't take much to get it where I need it to be.

[Minnesota_boy]

Deadheader,
That cold rolled steel is too low in carbon to heat treat.  You could add carbon, but it wouldn't diffuse deep enough to doo much good except to make the outside harder (case hardened)  adding more material at the stress points by welding extra material there would help, but would add weight and maybe make it too unweildy for your use.  You really need a steel that is make to heat treat like 4140 or 4340, but you still need a way to heat it, quench it, then temper it and the tongs are a bit big for your setup, and there is always the danger that the tongs would crack on quench.  You could go to an induction hardening process.  It should only cost about $400,000 to set yourself up to harden those tongs,  :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

 : :  OR, I could buy a set for $110.00. Just trying to get some bills outta the way, first.
  NOW, the guy I had to do my hauling, just sold his girlfriends boat and they took off till the end of August !!!!!!!
  Looks like I gotta get a truck to haul with. : :
  Anybody wanna be a partner  ???: : : : :
  My son just sold some air dried Pine for $4.00 bdft. ;D

[DanG]

Hey Harold!  I ain't never pulled no logs off the bottom, but I'm lazy and that makes me think up easy ways to do stuff. I'm also cheap, which makes me think up ways to do stuff without spending money.
Having qualified myself, thusly, here's my idea, which you may or may not have already tried.  Why not build a rig that works just like a cant hook, or modify a cant hook that you could lower onto the log with your winch. Ed could shift it into position, then skedaddle out of the way, and you could exert a perpendicular pull with the boat, using the leverage of the extended and reinforced handle to roll the log out of the mud. I don't know if it would work at all, and it surely wouldn't work on every log, but it may be worth thinkin' about. :P

[biziedizie]

  DanG I think you should be Harolds new partner 8) You can sit around and think of new ideas to get things to work better and Harold can do all the hard work :D Just think at the end of the month all the profits could be split 50/50 ;D
  Oh yeah one more thing do you got a truck??? Harold needs a truck real bad ;)

   Steve

[Fla._Deadheader]

Steve, Ole Dang's quite the rigger. The only thing that might stop Dang's idea from workin, is, the sapwood is REALLY soft from the water. It tears out from the smaller tongs all the time. The way to use the tongs is to get them as near completely around the log as possible.
  The Cypress is pretty hard, and won't USUALLY tear out, but, ya gotta remember, these logs can be 60 feet long, buried up to 8' deep on one end.
  We already have several we can't get to bubble, YET! ;D ;D ;D
  DanG DOES have a truck that would work, IF he put a big ball in the bed! :D :D :D :D :D

[D._Frederick]

Fla.-,
How deep are the logs that you are having trouble with? On PBS, they showed divers moving very big rocks with parachutes. They took thier tanks and filled the chute with air until they had enough lift. Suppose that you would need 20 ft of water and not much current to make this method work.

[Fla._Deadheader]

I think you answered yer own question, "D". The sand is really fine and packs really tight. Go in the water sometime, guys, and see how well you can dig. Wear all the gear you can put on and use a short handle (20") shovel. In 5 minutes, you will be gasping for air. Working in the water is TOUGH ;D

[Kevin]

Guaranteed to make your logs bubble ...



http://www.jwautomarine.co.uk/prbags.htm

[DanG]

Harold!  I suppose it's just old age and failing eyesight that caused you to overlook the gooseneck ball in my truck. :D :D
Can we haul on weekends?  Can't get time off from work till first week of August, but I can get a week then.

[dail_h]

   DH,
Can't you jet around them logs to loosen'em up some?A want add on some of the equipment sites might tupn up some big yong

[Fla._Deadheader]

Dail, can't legally use anything to dig with but yer hands. : :
   Dang, weekends there is nobody at the mill to unload the trailer. To haul lumber, ya gotta drive to Vero Beach. Can't make it in 1 day and back, unless ya stay over 1 night at the camp ???

[DanG]

OK, Harold. How many loads could you have ready for hauling to Vero by the first week of August? I can be off that week.

[Fla._Deadheader]

How many loads??? ??? ???  We are only 2 guys in a boat and can't see. It may take us 2 weeks to FIND a load, much less saw it. : :
  Appreciate the offer, but, can't be definite on anything
  Heading to the river in 20 minutes. Will post back on Monday or Tuesday.

[shopteacher]

Two blind guys in a boat. Now that conjures up some interesting visions  :

[Fla._Deadheader]

Wait till tomorrow. I got some pics AND a story. Got some wood to post pics of and need input, also.

[lamar]

deadheader hey' I finaly found out how to locate a post I couldnt rember where I left it like tools and such ??? All you have to do is look under your own name,duh. When I ask a question or give my comentary and never come back is that considered bad? ;D To get to the meat I have some loader tongs that I cobbled up 10yrs. ago and bust bent welded added many things to them to beef them up.You might be able to weld some torsion bars in just the right place to get the tensile strength you need and there free off an old car.I had some on my loader but they were to brittle.

[Fla._Deadheader]

   Hi Lamar. When asking a question, it never hurts to leave a "thanks" after ya get some input. ;D
   If I could find a couple of late 40's Fords, I could get the solid driveshafts and use them. Had a shaft once, and, some guy stole it. I have a smaller, Blacksmith made set, that were made from car axles, probably "T" model.
    I thought Torsion bars were actually high tensile tubing???

[lamar]

deadheader I should of said stabalizer bars.solid steel. I pulled a lot of tranys out of those pre 49 fords.those shafts are hard to find.Used to make ecetelene ???cannons out of the shaft tubes. we could lobb avocacatos 1/4 mile. ;D You probably dont need them to long so theres lots of high tensile parts in most parts cars.

[isawlogs]

  Just a thought here ...Did you think of using the rear axles off of a 3/4 ton truck to make your tongs with   ???
   I made a spear for the front end loader to pick up the round bales of hay... Like I sead just a thought...

[Frank_Pender]

Marcel, that is what I use for maul handles is a 3/4 ton pickup axel. 8)

[Fla._Deadheader]

   Thanks guys. I think, when I made the first set, I used 44" long pieces of 1" steel. Axles are too short to make the big tongs.
    The salvage yards around here don't have old car parts anymore. Taxes are getting so high, they keep the latest model stuff, so they can turn parts rapidly and get more.

[isawlogs]

  How long do you need the steel to be fur them tongs?
 
 Frank .... bet you don' replace them to often  :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

I think, when I made the first set, I used 44" long pieces of 1" steel