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Author Topic: Establishing a New Pine Plantation  (Read 39376 times)

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Offline customsawyer

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #100 on: December 20, 2009, 03:45:28 pm »
Well in reply to all of this.
First WDH I would like to add that it is great to work with a land owner that understands what it takes to establish a good pine stand. There are many that think you can just go out there and plant the trees with out any prep work and get results just the same.
Second the other half of the reforestation part of the company would not allow my nose up from the grind stone of the saw mill. ;D
Third the difference that you get from proper site prep will more than pay for itself in just a few years here in the south might take a bit longer up north but you will get the return on your investment just the same I would think.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #101 on: December 20, 2009, 05:31:17 pm »
They were probably container stock weren't they tughill. We get them that size in 45's. When we used to get DNR bare root red pine they were 12-14 inches tall and took well to old fields. Planted hundred of acres of them back in the 80's to early nineties. 20 year old plantations of bare root red pine are now 35 feet or there abouts. Red pine container take well to field, just takes 3 years to see them show up much. The deer are hard on them, ripping off the new spring candles. I've seen whole plantations ruined. If the top wasn't broke the tree was pulled out by the varmints. They are a challenge to grow in the nurseries I think to get the root collar diameter required. They germinate well, just need to get them to size up on the stem. A two year old container seedling is quite small. I've seen the bud on the top a larger diameter than the stem at the bottom when they swell in the early part of the season.  :D

What customsawyer said speaks volumes as well as the tending required to get them off to a good beginning. That includes any plantation cleaning with a brush saw as well. I've seen birch and aspen take over a field pretty quick over a ten year period and no trouble to over top them red pine trees.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline WDH

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #102 on: December 20, 2009, 08:00:56 pm »
Tughill,

Customsawyer's crew planted the trees with a tree planing machine.  It is pulled by a tractor, and an operator in the tree planter feeds the trees into slots on a rotating wheel that places the trees in the furrow at the correct spacing.  There is a big colter in front of the wheel that slices open the planting furrow and two packing wheels behind the planter close up the furrow and packs the soil around the tree.

Maybe Customsawyer has a pic.

Herbicide to control competing grass and weeds will do wonders for first year survival and growth.  They like the site prepared ground as much or better than the seedlings  ;D.
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Offline tughill

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #103 on: December 23, 2009, 04:33:34 pm »
Thanks, WDH, Swampdonkey and Customsawyer!  I have seen tree planting machines, pretty neat stuff.  I might put in some more red pine in the spring, and I will definitely try to improve my site prep.  You guys are such a great knowledge resource!  Now if I can just get a subsoiler fabbed up....
"Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not."- Thomas Jefferson
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Offline redpowerd

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #104 on: December 23, 2009, 05:07:15 pm »
interesting thread.

it was good that you were able to subsoil in dry conditions as it helps to shatter and fracture that hardpan.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #105 on: December 23, 2009, 10:41:16 pm »
It is good that I got the plantation established last year because the ground is so wet right now from all the rain that it would be impossible to plant.
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Offline redpowerd

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #106 on: December 24, 2009, 06:46:43 am »
something the BTO here needs to learn. he will pull his subsoiler thru the ground during the wettest time of the year, often using two tractors to keep moving. hes adding compaction and smearing the clay subsoil, decreasing drainage and creating a brick wall that roots will not penetrate. his crops are starting to show the adverse effects of sub soil compaction.

i wonder if it would be further benificial to rip the ground between the rows on your plantation. are pine roots not fiberous and outward spreading? loosening the soil where the roots want to party wouldnt hurt.

great preperation. are you spraying for weeds directly over the trees? theres herbicide that will not hurt your pines? i have about 20 acres of land that i would like to plant to red pine, about 6 different spots, bordering woods and fields effectivley squaring the ag fields up, and building a bufffer between woods and fields. you said you had some scrub to extinguish before working, do you have any pics of that? what kind of brush? did you just brush hog it or did you remove the roots?

thanks for the thread!
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Offline WDH

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #107 on: December 24, 2009, 07:51:02 am »
RP,

I suspect that the deep tree roots are able to flourish below the plow plan due to the subsoiling, and the finer roots spread out above the plow pan, so I am not sure if subsoiling between the rows would be effective.  However, that would make for a great research project as I have never seen a study on that.

Yes, I sprayed a 4 foot band directly over the top of the trees to control the grass and weeds until the little trees got a foot hold.  The spray was a mix of arsenal and oust.  I sprayed later than I would have liked, but I as re-rigging some old spray equipment, that frustratingly took longer to get working right than I imagined it would.  I used my 45 HP tractor with a 300 gallon spray tank.  There was a short boom with two nozzles that sprayed an overlapping pattern from each side of the furrow. 

To do the hedge row and other brush clearing along the edge of the fields, and in an old hog pen, I hired a bulldozer and operator to push up the material and pile it for burning (although I never had the right conditions to burn the piles before planting, so now the piles serve as wildlife cover for the birds, rabbits, and other critters).
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Offline redpowerd

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #108 on: December 24, 2009, 08:01:09 am »
RP,

I suspect that the deep tree roots are able to flourish below the plow plan due to the subsoiling, and the finer roots spread out above the plow pan, so I am not sure if subsoiling between the rows would be effective.  However, that would make for a great research project as I have never seen a study on that.

Yes, I sprayed a 4 foot band directly over the top of the trees to control the grass and weeds until the little trees got a foot hold.  The spray was a mix of arsenal and oust.  I sprayed later than I would have liked, but I as re-rigging some old spray equipment, that frustratingly took longer to get working right than I imagined it would.  I used my 45 HP tractor with a 300 gallon spray tank.  There was a short boom with two nozzles that sprayed an overlapping pattern from each side of the furrow. 

To do the hedge row and other brush clearing along the edge of the fields, and in an old hog pen, I hired a bulldozer and operator to push up the material and pile it for burning (although I never had the right conditions to burn the piles before planting, so now the piles serve as wildlife cover for the birds, rabbits, and other critters).

there you go, you have a test plot growing right in front of you, i like to grow test plots but i have the disadvantage of  having to implement them annually. i see soil and trees has been discussed here quite throughly, a member may have read or done plots.

how much herbicide did you put down per acre and what was the mix? just something to add to my notes. you cleaned hedgerows right out of the field?

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Offline customsawyer

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #109 on: December 24, 2009, 09:43:38 am »
I have just spent about two hours trying to upload some pics. and have run out of patience so will try some other time.
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Offline redpowerd

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #110 on: December 24, 2009, 08:53:32 pm »
I have just spent about two hours trying to upload some pics. and have run out of patience so will try some other time.
thanks for trying. once you get it down pat you wont be able to stop though. Merry Christmas
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Offline DanG

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #111 on: December 24, 2009, 11:36:09 pm »
I have just spent about two hours trying to upload some pics. and have run out of patience so will try some other time.

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Offline WDH

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #112 on: December 25, 2009, 07:41:12 am »
RP,

I believe it was 5 ounces of arsenal per acre and 1 ounce of oust per acre delivered in 13 gallons of water per acre.  You have to calibrate the sprayer for the output in gallons of liquid per acre and add the appropriate amount of chemical based on the delivery rate.  Since you are only spraying a 4 foot band instead of the entire area, you have to figure the amount of band acres sprayed to figure out how much chemical you have to buy.  For example, if you have 100 acres total and the trees are planted on 12 foot row centers and if you are spraying a 4 foot band, then you are spraying 1/3 of the area (12 divided by 4) or 33 acres.  Therefore, if you are applying the rate of 5 ounces of arsenal per acre, you would need 165 ounces of arsenal (33 times 5). 

There were several long lines of hedgerows on the property lines that over the years had encroached out into the fields (maybe 25 feet or so).  These were cleaned back to the property line except for a few large line trees.  There was about 6 acres of old hog pens that had grown back in heavy brush and small trees that also needed to be cleared in order to be made productive.
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Offline customsawyer

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #113 on: December 28, 2009, 02:40:20 pm »
Here is a pic of the better half and the tree planter.

 



 

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Offline beenthere

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #114 on: December 28, 2009, 02:44:51 pm »
Better and prettier too.  8)

Good on the pics. Do you toss some red dye her direction ever so often, or is that white-wash on the red shirt?  ;D

That ridin the tree planter reminds me of work.
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Offline customsawyer

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #115 on: December 28, 2009, 07:01:47 pm »
The seedlings are dipped in a clay slurry as they call it which means they take dry clay from the chalk mines which is about like dry cement and make a wet mud with it. If the trees start to get a little bit dry the clay will cake on and keep the trees from drying out.
Been thinking about trying to get on dirty jobs with that one.
These open fields are pretty easy on the person in the tree planter but when you get into the bedded land and have to put duals on the tractor which means you hit twice as many stumps it gets a lot harder on them. The toughest part is that the companies that do the bedding will put the tallest stumps in the bed itself which will cover it with dirt so that the treeplanter and the person in it hits all of them. Makes for a rough ride.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #116 on: December 28, 2009, 10:21:40 pm »
Good on the pics.

I feel that he did an exceptional job on the pics  ;D.
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Offline stonebroke

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #117 on: December 29, 2009, 02:07:22 am »
Why do you bed new pine plantations?

Stonebroke

Offline customsawyer

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #118 on: December 29, 2009, 04:54:26 am »
The bedding will be done in cut over land that is low land and it will help to bring the tree up.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #119 on: December 29, 2009, 07:42:38 am »
Stonebroke,

On our company land, everything is bedded in order to provide a deep rip to break up any hardpan and to cultivate the soil.  In the past, it was used primarily for wet land so that the planting bed (which is several feet high) would allow the trees to stay out of the water.  However, research has shown that bedding drier land with the right equipment provides cultivation and bare mineral soil around the tree to reduce early competition.  Now, we are applying a liquid fertilizer in the planting bed using a 3-in-1 machine where the ripping, bedding, and fertilizer application all take place in one machine pass.  This is for commercial plantation establishment for loblolly pine and may not be a good practice for northern hardwood, although if you plant hardwood, good site prep is as important or more so as with pine.
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