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XT190 series 3

Started by ely, October 31, 2008, 02:57:48 PM

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ely

calling all farmers. i am looking at a purchase of a new to me tractor. it is allis chalmers xt190 series 3. i understand that it is 71 or very early 72 model. has a turbo on the diesel engine. my question to those that may know/have an opinion. do you know of any particular weakness or problem with this tractor.

i am purchaseing it for pulling plows and turning the earth only. i have no intention of using it in the woods.

i have talked to everyone else and they have nothing bad to say, so i thought i would broaden the scope a bit by asking some sawmillers. :D

stonebroke

I have heard that the transmission and rear end are the same as the 160 with only sixty horse so be carefull of hard work.

Stonebroke

ely

ok. my soil type is sandy just about like where the tractor is from. i should not be too tough on it. they told me it was designed to pull a 14 ft disc or something equiv.

Dave Shepard

A friend of mine grew up on A-C, I think the XT190 is probably a good tractor. My neighbors had 180s and 190's, they had some trouble, but they were also "aggressive" users. ;) How big a plow you going to pull?


Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

ely

i am hoping to appropriate a 4 or 5 bottom plow to use with this tractor. i have seen alot of 2 and 3 bottom plows. i am holding out for what i want now though. i do have access to a 15 ft spring tooth chisel that hooks on the 3 point. i am gonna put some wide sweeps on it and test it out.

beenthere

I plowed a lot of acres with a 5 bottom, semi-mounted with one of these for a neighbor farmer. Great tractor, and I believe his son-in-law still has a couple of them.
Don't know of any particular problem, but just needing normal engine overhaul when the hours get up there.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

srt

Ely,

I've never heard anything bad about the 190 .  In fact, I've heard they're sought after.  Never been on one though.

Stonebroke, 

I think what you heard  may not be correct about the 160 and 190 sharing tranny and rears.  But boy do I hope you're right.  I have a 160 that I absolutely love, but it has a whine in third and reverse. The 160 was actually made in France and has a 3 cyl 40 horse perkins.  I'm fearful everytime I get on it that it will disentigrate internally I'll need some parts that are no longer available.  Do you remember where you heard that info?


stonebroke

we used to have a good allis dealer that sold a lot of tractors. It may not be the 160 but I am pretty sure that the 170 thought the 200 all had the same basic drivetrain . You still should be able to get parts, though agco.

Stonebroke

Corley5

I looked at one a couple years ago and the research I did turned up some tranny and rearend issues depending on when it was produced.  The tranny issue had to do with gears not meshing fully especially 3rd and 4th and the rear ends in the early ones weren't strong enough.  That's what I recall anyway  :)  We didn't buy the one we were looking it as it was misrepresented on the net and I was concerned about what I'd read about them anyway.  We bought a 706 Farmall instead  8)  Check out ytmag.com's discussion forum for more info
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

HOGFARMER

I had an AC 190XT tractor for several years, pulled a 4 bottom 16" semimounted plow and a 18 ft. AC disc with it.  Confortable tractor to work good power and hydraulics.  The problem with them in our part of the country is that after a while they start hopping out of gear usually 3rd or 4th.  This is an expensive repair and the reason that I got rid of mine when this happened.  Liked the tractor and would still have it if it had not developed these trans problems.  Several friends have had the same problem.  Try each gear by giving it the trottle then pulling it back to idle to see if it will come out of gear.
Manual LT-30

ronwood

ely.

My dad has a XT190 propane original from factory. He pulls a large disk with it. Two years ago he had to repair the rear end.  It been a very good tractor for him.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

ely

thanks for all the info guys, i really appreciate it.

Stan snider

Ely My first tractor was a 190 XT series III. In light soil they will handle a 5-16 semi mount plow with ease. I've sat many an hour with my hand on the right fender. The hydraulic levers were the handiest of any tractor I have ever run. You could keep the headland as straight as a string after a while. The transmission jumping out of high could be fixed, by welding up one side of the detent in the shifter rails and grinding out the other. I think only the top cover was all I had off. An A C dealer told me how to do that and it worked fine. If it had been run too long with your leg over the gearshift to keep in in gear .it might need gears but most tractors don't spend many hours in high gear. The series III had a heavier rear end than the earlier ones.  That 301 is a good engine and economical to work on. I have wished many a time I still had mine. It had more horsepower for its weight than any of our other tractors.

Handy Andy

  I bought a new 986 IH in '81.  Went and bought a 5 bottom plow, and it was about all it could pull.  Talked to the mechanic at  the dealer about it, and he told me to go back to the old 4 bottom, and drive a gear faster.  Said it is easier on the tractor to drive faster than to drive slower with a big load.  Did as he said, and never knocked the gears out of the old IH. In fact, hardly any repairs at all.  Jim
My name's Jim, I like wood.

Dave Shepard

I'm surprised you couldn't pull the 5 bottom with a 986. We pulled 4 bottoms with the 656's for years, and a 5 bottom trailer plow with the 756 with ease. I pulled the trailer plow in 2nd HI with the 1256, but the dirt wouldn't land in the right place. ::)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

beenthere

The ground and plowing depth will make a big difference on number of bottoms one can pull.  ;D

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Norm

I don't think you could pull a 5 bottom plow on our place with much less than 140hp. I chisel with a 225hp mfwd and still struggle through the rough spots.

My b-i-l lives in central Nebraska and can get away with much less horsepower to pull with. They have a sandier soil that is easier to pull through.

Corley5

  There's a sticker on a cab post in the DNR's mfwd 7520 JD that warns that high loads at speeds below 4mph will shorten drive train and tire life.  We pull a JD offset disk with 26" blades at 5-6mph with it in a variety soils.  It pulls hardest in sand  ;) :)
  Here at home we used to use a five bottom 3pt plow with 14" mold boards on the 180 MF.  It made it work in our sandy loam.  We picked up a 4 bottom semi mount with 16" bottoms that pulled easier and that's what we've used on the 706 Farmall the last couple times we've worked up any ground.  It doesn't have any issues pulling it  8) 8) 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

olyman

series 1 and 2 190's had lighter rear planetarys--they would break under hard use--there was a update at the time--as not all were tearing up--depended on how hard it was used--wasnt covered by allis--dont know why--but the ser 3 was allright-----and they were easier on fuel than other brands of comparable hp---

ely

well guys i went and got the tractor moved to my place now. i will try and get some pics of it later this week.
it came with a semi mounted 5 bottom plow. in my sandy soil it works great so far, but i think i need to adjust it alittle.
when i run with my right wheel in the furrow the 1st plow runs almost out of the ground, hardly getting a bite in the ground.
if i keep it up on top out of the furrow it seems to plow just fine,with all bottoms turning dirt. it is sort of a pain to keep it up on top though.  all the plowing i have seen done and have done you always run in the last furrow with the tire on the next round.

keep in mind i am really new at all this stuff, and i may have trouble understanding some of the terminoligy. :D

isawlogs


Alls you need to do is adjust your right side arm on the three point hitch , Most have a hand crank to lower the draw bar , in doing so you will lower the plow . Some of the new tractors this is a hydraulic cylinder ... 
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

beenthere

ely
You are right, that you should plow with the right tractor wheels in the furrow. Is the furrow wide enough to do that with the tires on the tractor?

As isawlogs said, adust the linkage to the 3pt lift arms.

You should be able to adust the fore and aft depth of the plows, as well as an adjustment for draft.
(3pt arms for the fore, and a hyd cyl on the trailing wheel for the aft).

When on a flat surface, run the right wheels up on a block or stack of boards about 6" high. Then set the plows so they are flat to the ground. It will simulate having the right wheels in the 6" deep furrow. Other may have better tricks to do the setting.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ely

i guess i am gonna have more trouble explaining myself than i first thought ;D
i am good with the level of the plow and the adjustment front and back. the what i am talking about now is when i am running in the furrow after i make the first round. the first blade from the tractor is mostly out in the furrow behind that rear tire and is barely turning much dirt.
there is a bolt pattern on the "neck" of the plow maybe the tounge, and it seems i can move the plow over to the left using a different set of holes, i am thinking that will put the first blade on the plow back over into new dirt instead of open furrow.

probably i should shut up and just get the camera out there :D

isawlogs

  OH ... the off set of the plow . your plow is plowing what has already been plowed ...  :D

  I cant really help there , all the plows I ever used where factory made for the tractor that we had , so it was plowing at the right place .
That being said , I am sure you can get the plow over to where it needs to be ... What kind of plow is it and you'd think I would recall the tractor you have it on , right  ::) Not so .....  :D :D  Then might be able to help out .
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Corley5

The plow hitch needs to be adjusted.  I'm not sure about the plow you've got but with JD and IH semi mount plows the piece that hooks to the 3pt arms has an assortment of holes to adjust how the plow tracks.  Take the bolts out and slide it one way or the other  :) :) 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

stonebroke

he might have to adjust the furrow wheel in or out.

Stonebroke

ely

its like corely said. there are alot of different holes in that plate so i should be able to slide it over.
it is an allis chalmers tractor and also an A/C plow.  the hitch on it has been cobbled with a welding machine but it still adjusts the same way as before. not certain what they were reattaching but i could have built a good sized storage facilty with the amount of rods they burnt on that hitch. :D

thanks for the insite guys, i am not sure if i told you how much i love this site. this week.

beenthere

Is it possible that the furrow wheel might also need to be adjusted in on the axle?
Some of them slide in and out, for different applications.

That is scary that your plow has been hit with the welder. Adjusted right, it can be fun plowing. Adjusted wrong, it can be a real nightmare.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Dave Shepard

You wouldn't be able to pull that plow around here. At least not until the ground thaws out. :D My A-C friend says that is a really good tractor. I haven't seen a semi-mount that you drive on land, but we have a 5 bottom trailer plow that you drive on land. You let the drawbar swing, and the plow does it's own thing.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Corley5

I've always wanted a 4 bottom on land plow  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Dave Shepard

Don't you have a 706? Just 'cause it's older than you doesn't mean you have to go easy on it. ;)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Gary_C

Quote from: Corley5 on December 08, 2008, 05:30:56 PM
I've always wanted a 4 bottom on land plow  :)

Most people around here that have those on land hitch plows just hate them. Neighbor said they are the hardest thing to stay in front of he had ever seen. I've never seen a 4 bottom on land hitch before. Most on land hitch plows around here were 6, 7, 8, or 10 bottom.

Most plows around here are either scrapped or left in the weeds out behind the shed. All bean ground is left untouched in the fall and then one pass with the field cultivator in the spring and planted. The corn ground is either disc-chiseled in the fall or left for the no till bean drill in the spring. Very few plows ever seen in the fields now and that does not make me sad.  8)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

HOGFARMER

I run an IH 4186 with dual wheels on both the front and rear axles.  We use a MF 880 6 bottom on land plow with it.  I find it easy to plow with.  I keep the outside tire near the edge of the furrow and it does a great job.  Some people with 2 wheel drives use a pipe mounted on the front with a chain hanging down thsat goes in the furrow as a means to space the tractor from the furrow.  With a little practice it becomes second nature.
Manual LT-30

Dave Shepard

4186, that's a cool old beast. 8) 8)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Norm

I haven't seen a moldboard plow in years around here either. A chisel does such a better job that they have mostly been scrapped or left out back. We leave the bean fields and only do the corn patch if it's corn on corn. As a kid I can remember seeing the ditches filled with black dirt in the spring after our prairie winds blew all winter. 

ely

my 5 bottom came with the tractor when i paid for it. so i took it. and i am not gonna have something and not pull it :D.
i also got a set of duals for it too.
he had an offset disc with a 10 ft cut on it i have to go back and pay him for that and haul it home too.
probably only use the 5 bottom when i start a new patch in grassland. the offset should keep it all in check from then on.

Norm

Ely I sure wasn't meaning to say the moldboards aren't a good implement. I wish we could use them for certain fields but with our winds, rain and soil type they just aren't practical. I'd like to have one just for our garden area, the 16' chisel is a bit of overkill. :D

Dave Shepard

Hey! I resent resemble that remark!



:D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Handy Andy

  I used to have one just like that Dave.  Before I went green.  Anyway, the reason those wheels slide on the axle is that you have to set your right wheel for your plow.  Should give you the number in the plow book center of tractor to the center of your right wheel. Have 3 old plows out in the weeds.  Haven't hooked onto one in years.  They aren't worth much  any more. 
My name's Jim, I like wood.

ely

well, here is the bad news update.
my beast is in the shop as we speak.
seems like it started making oil all of a sudden like.
book calls for almost 3 gallons of oil in the crankcase. i drained out over 5 when i noticed the radiator needed more water in it.
i tested the heat exchanger/oil cooler and it was ok.
so far the mech says the exhaust man. is about burnt up and the turbo is shot. he ask if i wated to go further.

told him i had to, i was in too deep to quit now.
the search is on for parts now.

olyman

dang--hate to hear that --as some of that stuff happens when you get a used piece of equipment--

ely

i sometimes wonder if a guy would be better off just spending 60k and go with new equip. :'(

Dave Shepard

Let me know what model turbo you need, I have a rebuilt complete turbo for an AC engine, I think it's probably very similar to the one you've got.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Stan snider

You may have electrolysis in the sleeves.2900 A-C engines are known to do that as are any wet sleeve engine. Abiline Machine, as well as others will have the parts you need. Good luck, Stan

ely

i replied to you dave, thanks for the info stan, we were thinking along those same lines. tell me, if it is electrolisis how bad will it leak?
i ask because when i drained the oil from the crankcase it had a couple gallons water from the radiator in it too. in order to get it to the shop, i poured oil back into the crankcase. and filled the radiator with water. drove the tractor on the trailer and then unloaded at the shop.
the mechcanic pulled it in the shop after he ran it up to operateing temp. it still never showed any water in the crankcase.

would it be possible to only leak water when it was being worked hard.? i tend to think if it leaks it leaks all the time.

olyman

ely--if the leak is that slow--the rings at the bottom of the sleeves may be getting bad--throw a can of bars leak in it--it may stop completely

Dave Shepard

Here are a few shots of the turbo I have. The tag on the compressor side says it is an Air ResearchTO4B90  There is another tag that says "Factory overhauled tubocharger" P/N 408105-9150 It has an exhaust manifold gasket, as well as an oil return gasket. I don't know if it will work, I was told it was for a larger motor, possibly a 361 cubic inch, whereas I'm told the XT190 is 301?





Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

ely

hello, thanks guys for all the shuffleing to get my info passed around. dave i am out of town at the moment but i am trying to get the numbers off my turbo now. thanks again it feels good to be back online. this is the only website that lets me online. i still can not get to any of my email accounts.

ely

well guys it has been a few weeks in the shop but i now have an almost new 1969 ac xt 190 tractor. it sure sounds good while running. i should be back to dragging a disc pretty soon.

ely

yes sir that tractor runs like a champ, even if i have too much invested. i try to  tell people i have invested much more in a couple women and i atleast get to use the tractor when i need it. ;D

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