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Milling Osage Orange for Bows

Started by WDH, October 05, 2008, 08:01:29 PM

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WDH

Anybody milled any osage orange for the folks that make bows for archery?  It seems that the native americans preferred osage orange for bow wood.  Are there any special techniques?  How thick?  Any particular grain orientation?  What about value? 

I have a 10 foot osage orange log and I might want to prepare it for bow wood, but I do not know how.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Kelvin

Well i've made a couple osage bows myself.  The important thing is that they usualy follow the growth ring on one layer from tip to tip so thicker growth rings make this better, and placement of knots are critical.  Splitting out the staves are usually the way to handle the log, and having proper lengths is good. I'd end seal to stop checks, forget how long is usual, but something like 78" or so might leave you enough to trim off.  Growth rings over 1/16" to 1/8" thick are pretty useful.  They use the layers just under the sapwood so you will split the log like you would making fence rails leaving about 3" of outside face per stave.  Seasoning is critical.  You could pickup a copy of "bowyers bible" at amazon or maybe your library (doubt it) this tells all you would like to know.  The makers are picky about what they spend time on, so it helps to know what you are looking for.
Good luck,
KP

clif

Kevin  beat my answer and the only thing I would add is pick up a copy of Traditional Bowhunting at the magazine section at the store It has many different type of bow making companies and just contact one in your area.  I am sure they will point you to the right people.     Clif
Mighty Myte Mark IV Band Saw Mill .  " Don't let the past hold you back"

LeeB

'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Osagedon

WDH,  The type of bows Kelvin is refering to are selfbows. Basically the bows are one solid piece of wood with a single growth ring of summer wood that runs from tip to tip on the back of the bow.  For the selfbows Kelvin is right the log must be split length wise into wedge shaped staves and air dried a minimum of one year. Bowyers also use demensional lumber for laminated bows.  I myself mill osage for bows and can usually sell the stuff easily.

                                                    Don

Banjo picker

We call the wood bodock  or hedge apples here in Miss....I rember loaning a couple of wedges to a buddy of mine back in the 70's to split some....He broke one of the wedges in half trying to split a small log....He said he was going to make concrete floats out of it....go figure.....I guess they would last a long time.....Must be hard on bands...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

JV

I had a 72" traditional longbow custom made and the bowyer split the log with a frow into billets.   He then handworked the billet into the finished product.  It has cow horn tips and an antler arrow rest.  Have'nt shot it yet.  Osage makes beautiful bows.  Yellow at first, then orange, and finally dark mahogany.

I sawed some a couple of years ago into lath for trellises.  Interesting for people to watch the color changes.
John

'05 Wood-mizer LT40HDG28-RA, Lucas 613 Swing Mill, Stihl 170, 260 Pro, 660, 084 w/56" Alaskan Mill, 041 w/Lewis Winch, Case 970 w/Farmi Winch, Case 850 Crawler Loader, Case 90XT Skidloader, Logrite tools

TexasTimbers

I have cut Osage staves for bowyers, but have never made one. I do not have the knowledge that the posters who have responded have. But this site is the one that I read one night to figure out how to cut the staves to satisfy my first order from a bowyer some 3 or 4 years ago.

The site has a ton of information. More to it than at first blush. I called the guy back when and told him I had to cut an order for 12 staves and he was very helpful. With his site and the phone call I have been able to fill the occassional stave order as if I knw what I am talking about. ;D

Building the Osage Bow

This site is linked in the above site and is also a must-read. Bow Stave Information
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Don P

I don't know anything about it but have been told that the rubbery G layer in tension wood acts like a rubber band in a bow, was known about and sought out by natives.

WDH

Wow!  Thanks to all.  I have a lot to learn. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Tony

WDH,maybe some of these fellows can answer your questions ??? ??? ???


http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php
TK1600, John Deere 4600 W\frontendloader, Woodmaster718 planer\moulder, Stihl MS461 Stihl 036 & 021 & Echo CS-370
"You cannot invade the mainland United States.  There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."  Adm. Isoroku Yamamotto ( Japanese

WDH

I think that I will try to sell the log as is or mill it to a buyers specifications.  I put an ad on Craigslist to sell the whole log for $95.  I will see what happens.  Who knows, maybe someone is looking for a good straight osage orange log :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Bro. Noble

I cut quite a bit for a friend who makes bows.  He stood right there and told me where to make the cuts.  I didn't charge him anything because he's always doing stuff for me.

How's that for answering your questions without helping a bit :D :D
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Kcwoodbutcher

I've cut osage orange for a guy who makes some high end laminated bows ($500+). He wanted 2x2's but after I started cutting I convinced him to take just 2 inch slabs and then he could decide where to rip them for the best grain orientation. He would slice them down to about 2x3/8 and then start laminating. He backed the stack with some type of bamboo. He brought one out to show me and I was amazed that this bow which seemed kinda thin had a 70 lb pull.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

LeeB

'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

metalspinner

One day I came home pulling a load of fresh sawn Osage on my trailer.  My neighbor Chief Bull Moose  - a Cherokee Indian chief - came high footin' it across the yard to have a looky see.  I have not seen a seventy something year old run that fast in my life. :D  Aside from bows he mentioned that peace pipes are also made with osage and that the wood is sacred to the Cherokee.  He was very happy with his new stash of Osage. ;)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

schmism

039 Stihl 010AV  NH TC33D FEL, with toys

JV

Custom longbow I had made of Osage.  72" left hand,  48 # pull, cow horn tips, antler

arrow rest, and leather grip.  Actually it is a two piece takedown, the leather covers the

connection.  The furry critters on the string are silencers.  When time permits, I'll shoot it.

I have'nt shot a bow in years, should be interesting.  Sorry for the lousy photos.











John

'05 Wood-mizer LT40HDG28-RA, Lucas 613 Swing Mill, Stihl 170, 260 Pro, 660, 084 w/56" Alaskan Mill, 041 w/Lewis Winch, Case 970 w/Farmi Winch, Case 850 Crawler Loader, Case 90XT Skidloader, Logrite tools

WDH

Beautiful bow! 

Maybe someone will want to make a bow like that from this log.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

Danny, you deliver it to me and I'll buy it. And, try my hand at making each of us a bow.  ;)
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

WDH

Drive to Radar67's house    $(320)
Buy catfish supper              $(30)

Sell log                               $95

Net Profit                         $(255)

Maybe I better keep my day job instead of going into the wood business :D :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

Yeah, but you forgot the $500 bow you'll get out of it, that's $245 to the good.  :D Not to mention just visiting for a while.  ;D
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

I'll even through in a big ole pitcher of sweet tea and a ice cold banana pudding with homemade ice cream for later. ;)
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

WDH

I am sure that it would not look funny with a 10 foot log tied to the top of my Jeep Cherokee driving through Alabama ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Tom

If you do it, I want to know.  I'll take a picture and put it on the web alongside of that little compact car with the stack of plywood on top and the back filled with concrete blocks and cement that collapsed in the Home Despot parking lot.  :D :D

WDH

I would fit right in on the Selma, AL to Meridian, MS highway ;D.

Like Ray Stevens said in the haircut song......they would think that I was an insurance salesman  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

Quote from: WDH on October 06, 2008, 10:46:49 PM
they would think that I was an insurance salesman  :D.

With a battering ram.... :D :D :D :D
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

Sadly, I must say that I would have to impose highway duties on such odd looking form of conveyance as it passed through Alabama. I think a nice straight osage log should cover the toll. ;D   I too have catfish and would gladly give you some  before sending you on your way.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Dodgy Loner

Danny, I've got some 6-foot riven hickory staves that have been drying for more than a year.  If you want to try making a bow, you're welcome to have a couple of them.  I just use them for tool handles.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

TexasTimbers

Quote from: WDH on October 06, 2008, 09:52:58 PM
Drive to Radar67's house    $(320)
Buy catfish supper              $(30)

Sell log                               $95

Net Profit                         $(255)

Dubya have you been teaching economics to our government and banking officials. ? :D
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

WDH

Maybe I can become a Government Consultant ;D. 

Dodgy, not sure I need another hobby :).

Don, as I came through Thomasville, you would pull me over and say, "You in a heap of trouble, boy."
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dodgy Loner

Naw, same hobby.  Bowmaking is woodworking! ;)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

urbanlumberinc

I got my hands on some sweet Osage yesterday.  This baby was the Colorado state Champion till it got in the way of a parking garage.  All together I got the butt log and crotch from it, and four more logs of slightly smaller diameter, along with two rootballs. 
Anyone have a good idea about how I oughta cut this stuff up to get best value.  By the ring count the champ was 118 years old.  IMG] https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13730/PA314042_4.jpg [/IMG]

TexasTimbers

I am surprised to hear that the state champ is only 118 years old I think that cannot be correct.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Kansas

It wouldn't suprise me at all that that is about the right age. I dont believe osage orange was native west of missouri prior to the settlers in the 1800's. It was promoted by the government as windbreak material, also firewood and as a natural fence. Im not sure it was introduced much before the late 1800's.

urbanlumberinc

The state champ is the largest recorded tree of a given species, not the oldest.  Recorded is also a definitive term here, as there may well be one larger in the state, perhaps on private property somewhere, as yet undiscovered. 

WDH

That is an unusual log.  Really beautiful.

I sold the wood to a guy in Seattle, WA.  He will make fighting sticks out of it.  That wood is so heavy it will be costly to ship, that's for sure.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

milling man

i would like to get my hands on a hedge apple log not to many around here the largest on i have seen here is about 7" i have heard they are pretty hard to cut is this true?

zopi

Wasn't it Arky who just sold a big Osage timber for 350 bucks?

Shoulda sold it in sticks fer 100 bucks a pop...<GRIN>
Got Wood?
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WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

SwampDonkey

Congratulations on selling your log. You couldn't get much further away unless you was to send it to Alaska or Hawaii. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

Ain't that the truth ;D.  Hey, the shipping companies have to have something to do :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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