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357xp bar/chain combo

Started by John Mc, October 02, 2008, 01:23:08 PM

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John Mc

I just picked up a used 357xp. I'm wondering what the best combination is for a bar and chain.

I'll generally be running a 16 or 18" bar. The saw came with an 18" bar, .050 gauge, and had an Oregon .325 pitch 95vp chain on it.

I was a bit surprised at this combination. I would have figured a 3/8" pitch would be more suited to this saw. Any thoughts on this?

I'm intending to use this as a firewood saw, felling and bucking mostly hardwoods: beech, maple, red & white oak. Generally 12" or less diameter, and a few occasions up to around 14 or 16". (Anything larger than that would be pretty rare.) I prefer to use chisel chains (round ground).

The chain that came with it is just about shot, and the bar shows discoloration from overheating and is fairly worn. Since I'm going to replace these anyway, I figure I might as well be sure to put my money in the right combination.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or recommendations.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ed

I think it's set up pretty good right now.  ;) Maybe drop back to a 16" bar if you prefer it over the 18"
You really could go either way on the chain pitch, 3/8 would work fine too.  ;) It would be a personal preference choice.

Ed

Cut4fun

I like it with 16" 3/8 7T and full chisel.  Since you need a new bar and chains, check the drum and replace the sprocket to 3/8's and your on your way.

John Mc

That's the way I was leaning, Cut4Fun.

I was thinking of getting it checked out by my local repair shop before using it much. Any thoughts on things I should get checked out while it's in?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

John Mc

Quote from: Ed on October 02, 2008, 01:41:39 PM
I think it's set up pretty good right now.  ;) Maybe drop back to a 16" bar if you prefer it over the 18"
You really could go either way on the chain pitch, 3/8 would work fine too.  ;) It would be a personal preference choice.

Is one set-up more suited to hardwoods, or more suited to larger or smaller diameters than the other?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

woodsrunner

While I don't have a 357xp I do have a 359 and a 362XP. I have an 18 inch bar on each of those with 3/8 050 gauge chain. I run Stihl 33 RSC almost exclusively. With that chain and an 18 inch bar the 362XP will impress you. That same bar chain combo on the 359 does very well. So I'm guessing the 357XP should be in there pretty close to the 362XP. I think you would be very happy with the 18 inch bar and 3/8 chain combo.

Cut4fun

John Mc, there was a recall on some of the 346, 357, 359 early saws with plastic intake clamp. I will go find my post on it for you. Something to have them change being it was recalled.
Also some of the carbs gave people fits tuning (they used a couple different carbs). I happen to have a extra 357 carb if you have something like this happen to you.

Cut4fun

My 357 has the plastic clamp, but someday I plan on replacing it just as a precautionary measure.

Service Bulletin for 357XP, 359, 353, 346XP
This service bulletin is not new. I thought that there might be some out there who were not aware of it so here it is. If your saw has a black plastic clamp around the intake right next to the cylinder it is applicable to it. If the clamp is of steel construction then you should be ok.

B0600023
SERVICE

*537 43 88-01*
*compl 537 25 13-02
English 1 (1)

SB, 357 XP, 359, 353, 346 XP,
Partition wall and clamp for intake system,
2006-03

The existing intake system on 357XP, 359,353 and 346XP currently consists of an integrated plastic clamp in the partition wall. As the clamp is made of plastic, there is a risk of deformation. This results in impaired clamping force against the cylinder, which in turn can result in leakage in the intake system. To prevent this from occurring, we have now introduced a metal clamp and a new partition wall.

The new partition wall is made up of polyamide with 30 % fibre glass.
The new clamp is a hardened steel clamp. The new material and the design of the clamp reduce the risk of deformation and the subsequent risk of leakage.

Full replaceability prevails.
Introduced from serial number:
357XP 061100201
359 061100001
353 061100001
346XP 061100001

New part no. Description Excl. part. no. Remark
537 25 13-02 Partition wall, intake, complete New spare part
537 43 88-01 Clamp, intake New spare part

Spare part, partition wall, part number 537 25 13-01, has been discontinued and is replaced by part number 537 25 13-02.




SawTroll

Quote from: Cut4fun on October 02, 2008, 01:48:51 PM
I like it with 16" 3/8 7T and full chisel.  Since you need a new bar and chains, check the drum and replace the sprocket to 3/8's and your on your way.

Yep, but try an 8-pin as well, and see what works best for your applications!    :)
Information collector.

John Mc

Cut4Fun -Thanks for the info on the plastic clamp. My saw has that. Is it an expensive replacement? (for either parts or labor). I'm wondering if it's worth asking the shop to replace it while it's in there anyway... or at least if they've got it opened up to that point already.

SawTroll -I was assuming I needed the torque for hardwood cutting, so was thinking 7-pin. Am I off in this thinking? I don't own a clutch removal tool, so making the swap from 7 to 8 pin would mean a trip back to the shop. Unless I get off my butt and order the tool.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Rocky_J

By 'clutch removal tool', do you mean an old screwdriver and a hammer, along with some spare starter cord to use as a piston stop? Do some reading in some of the older threads, unless you are completely mechanically inept then you probably already have what you need and the ability to do it yourself.

John Mc

Have some basic mechanical skills, but far from what some of you guys here are capable of. I wasn't sure if I'd really screw something up by hammering on it. I do have an impact wrench, and was figuring on just using that to remove it... but that would take the tool, I think. I'll try the screwdriver, and see how it goes.

Still curious as to what kinds of applications I'd want to run a 7 vs 8 tooth sprocket on a 357xp with a 16" bar.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ed

Quote from: John Mc on October 02, 2008, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: Ed on October 02, 2008, 01:41:39 PM
I think it's set up pretty good right now.  ;) Maybe drop back to a 16" bar if you prefer it over the 18"
You really could go either way on the chain pitch, 3/8 would work fine too.  ;) It would be a personal preference choice.

Is one set-up more suited to hardwoods, or more suited to larger or smaller diameters than the other?

In hardwoods the isn't much difference, the .325 is a little faster.
I run both .325 & 3/8 pitch on my 254xp. The 254 is about 1/2 hp less than your saw. With the .325 pitch chain, the saw is a screamer! It never misses a beat, even with the 16" bar buried in Oak.
I bought the 3/8 pitch & 18" bar to use on Softwoods (Cottonwood & Aspen). When cutting in softwood the .325 pitch chain doesn't have enough chip clearance, it loads up in between teeth and bogs the saw down. The 3/8 chain works better up to around 10-12" then its starts to load up also, thats when the full skip chain goes on. Plenty of chip clearance until the bar is buried, the saw still is running at full rpm with no bog.

Ed

John Mc

Thanks for all of the input.

I did come up with one other question. The saw has what appears to be an automatic compression release. There is a hose attached to where I'd expect the the manually set release button to be. The hose runs down and attaches somewhere lower on the saw.

I've never run a saw with this set-up before. Are this things reliable? I don't see them on the new saws. I assume they went to the push button for a reason. Should I be looking at converting it to the push button compression release? If so, how much is involved in this?

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

SawTroll

Quote from: Rocky_J on October 02, 2008, 08:42:01 PM
By 'clutch removal tool', do you mean an old screwdriver and a hammer, along with some spare starter cord to use as a piston stop? Do some reading in some of the older threads, unless you are completely mechanically inept then you probably already have what you need and the ability to do it yourself.

Agree, but I prefere a slightly blunt chisel to the screwdriver.... :D :D

....and I never needed a piston stop on the 353 or 346.....
Information collector.

SawTroll

Quote from: John Mc on October 02, 2008, 08:50:38 PM
.....
Still curious as to what kinds of applications I'd want to run a 7 vs 8 tooth sprocket on a 357xp with a 16" bar.

John Mc

8-pin, at least for limbing and smaller stuff, but you really need to try both..........

I believe I use the 8-pin and 15" bar about 80% of the time on my 361, in the slow-grown birch we have here.
Information collector.

Cut4fun

John Mc, I was chasing a air leak in my 357 and yesterday replaced the plastic intake clamp set up with another one and the saw was fine again. So if you have a chance to get the updated set up get it. Its just a matter of time before the plastic clamp warps and creates a seal leak.

If you go with 3/8 put a 7T on it and dont look back. 325 put a 8T which is real close to a 3/8 7T. 


John Mc

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I'm going with a 7T and 3/8 to start with. I am going to take SawTroll's advice, and pick up an 8T as well, so I can see for myself what the difference is.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

SawTroll

Quote from: John Mc on October 04, 2008, 01:10:37 PM
Thanks for all the advice, guys. I'm going with a 7T and 3/8 to start with. I am going to take SawTroll's advice, and pick up an 8T as well, so I can see for myself what the difference is.

John Mc

Rims are cheap, but you may need a different drum, with the large 7-spline to use an 8-pin 3/8".

7x3/8" is the only size that is easily availiable for both small and large 7-spline.

If you have the large 7-spline drum, the smallesr .325 rim that will fit is the 9-pin.........
Information collector.

Rocky_J

I don't think a saw in that size will adequately pull an 8 pin 3/8". I've owned and run a slew of saws both stock and ported, and I wouldn't run an 8 pin 3/8" sprocket on anything smaller than a ported 372XP. The smaller saws just don't have the torque to pull that high of a gear and it will pull them down out of their optimal operating range. There's a very good reason why the manufacturers don't put the large spline drum on 60cc chainsaws.  ;)

SawTroll

Quote from: Rocky_J on October 05, 2008, 06:05:42 PM
I don't think a saw in that size will adequately pull an 8 pin 3/8". I've owned and run a slew of saws both stock and ported, and I wouldn't run an 8 pin 3/8" sprocket on anything smaller than a ported 372XP. The smaller saws just don't have the torque to pull that high of a gear and it will pull them down out of their optimal operating range. There's a very good reason why the manufacturers don't put the large spline drum on 60cc chainsaws.  ;)

I see your point, but they do on the MS361, it is the standard size there - with recommended rim sizes 3/8x7, 3/8x8 and .325x9 (user manual).

3/8x8 is cool in smaller wood, at least on the German made Euro version...... 8) 8)
Information collector.

Cut4fun

Rocky I know what you are saying  ;).

Most people think by the seat of their pants, feel that the chain speed with a 8T that they are cutting faster. But when you throw a stop watch on there and you then find out the 7T is really quicker in the cuts.
I have tested this with my muffler modded stock stihl 361 (I used to own) and a woods ported 357 woods ported 5000 and the 7T was always quicker.
Seat of the pants i would have guessed 8T was quicker, but using video and a stop watched proved the seat of the pants feel was wrong.

All of my under 70cc saws run 7T now no exceptions.

John Mc

Cut4Fun -  what size and species of wood were you cutting on those? SawTroll was talking about the 8T possibly working better on smaller stuff and limbing. I've never done any comparisons, pretty much always run what came stock for a sprocket. It does make sense, though, that faster chain speed might get you something in situations where torque is not a major concern (i.e. smaller stuff and limbing). For cutting large hardwoods, I would think the higher torque of a 7T might be better, at least on the smaller saws.

I'm mainly cutting firewood, so I'm cutting that trunk into 16" lengths, not log-length. That's why I leaned to the 7T to start with. If I were felling and limbing, the balance of cutting small diameters and large shifts a bit, and I might have been inclined to start out with the 8T and see where that leads me.

This is just thinking about it. I have no experience running a 7T vs an 8T on the same saw.  I yield to those who have actually tried it. Hopefully, I'll be one of those who has seen the difference for himself before too long.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Cut4fun

6" - 9" size limbs, Ash, Oak, Maple, Poplar, Spruce. You have to remember different operators operate the saws different. That could make a difference if mattered, not only wood types.

SawTroll

Quote from: Cut4fun on October 06, 2008, 05:23:17 PM
6" - 9" size limbs, Ash, Oak, Maple, Poplar, Spruce. You have to remember different operators operate the saws different. That could make a difference if mattered, not only wood types.

Sounds like 3/8x8 territory, on a 60cc saw...... :)
Information collector.

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