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How do I lift a building?

Started by Dodgy Loner, September 30, 2008, 10:58:20 AM

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Dodgy Loner

This little 10' x 20' is destined to become my new workshop.  Unfortunately, it's in serious disrepair and will require a lot of work to get it back into a usable condition.  The first item of business will be to raise the entire building and put down another layer of cement block to get it a little higher off the ground.  The ground around the building was graded poorly, causing the bank to wash up against the building and rot out some of the siding.  I dug the bank back out and plan to put in a retaining wall whenever I get a round 'tuit ::).  Also, the floor joist were untreated spruce, so of course they rotted out completely with all the moisture under the building.  I'll have to replace the floor joists and subfloor while the building is jacked up.

I have enough jacks and hands to lift the building, but I'm not exactly sure how to do it without causing the thing to collapse.  I know I have to brace it somehow, but how?








"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Warbird

I'd advise you to talk to an engineer or a professional.  If the foundation has rot (looks like it does in that one pic) and if you intend to fully lift the building, it might be worth it to have someone actually come out, look at it, and give you some advice.  Last thing you want is to drop the building on someone.                   

Due to permafrost, I've had to do quite a bit of lifting in certain points on my home.  Never had to lift the entire building, tho.

If/when you lift it, take pics!  Keep us updated on progress.  Looks like an interesting project.

Dodgy Loner

Well, my dad's an engineer.  He's coming up this weekend to help me.  We're going to give it a shot one way or another, but I figured I might get some helpful input here.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

beenthere

Because you said the floor is rotted out, can you put some timbers across from the inside (can't see what the inside is like) and jack the building up from there? Get it high enough and stable, so you can lay the new foundation in and the flooring at the same time. Just a thought.
south central Wisconsin
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tcsmpsi

From what I can see of it (which isn't very much as far as structure), I would say you're about 50/50 with trying to raise it, and dismantling for salvage.

Though I can't see exactly how the floor is built, I can't see much that would incline me to believe there was structural integrity to it.

From what I can see of  it, I would go for dismantle/salvage.
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Radar67

With you dad being an engineer, give this thought a look.

On the long walls, come up about 2 feet to get away from the rot and lag bolt a 2x8 down the length on eah side (into the studs, every stud). Since the building is 20 feet long, cut holes in the siding for 3 or 4 4x6 beams (or larger, your dad should be able to figure out the right size). These will be used to lift the building under the 2x8 supports. Depending on how many beams you decide on, put a 20 ton bottle jack under each end of each beam. Jack the whole building up a little at a time.

Make sure the beams are long enough to place support material/blocking under once the building gets high enough.

Oh, angle brace the fool out of the inside of the building in all directions.

This is what I would do, as I have lifted a 8x12 the same way. Try this at your own risk. You are liable for your own actions.  ;)
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

SeeSaw

I'm With TCSMPSI on this one.  For the size of the building, (relatively small), you may have as much or probably more time in bracing, jacking, working around, stuff etc.  than it would take to start anew.  I think it might be much easier and faster in the long run to dismantle and build new.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, completely worn out and loudly proclaiming, WHAT A RIDE...!

Dodgy Loner

This is the best photo I have of the floor structure.  The floor basically consists of 10-foot 2x8's on 16" centers that rest directly on top of the foundation.  Most of the joists have rotted out completely, but as you can see in the picture, the sills and studs are still completely solid, with no decay or termites.  That's why Plan A is to raise and refurbish, and if that don't work, Plan B will be to dismantle and salvage.




After talking with my dad and a builder, my plan has been similar to what Radar67 mentioned - bolt a 2x8 into the studs along the length of the building on each side, slide some 14-foot 6x6's underneath those, and jack them up (the 4x6's would be plenty strong, but the 6x6's will be more stable).  I've got a slew of 1x6's for angle bracing, too.

Sounds like I'm headed down the right track as far as jacking the thing up, but then there's the other tricky part...How do you set it back down?

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Radar67

Setting it back down is just the reverse of jacking it up.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Dodgy Loner

I hope it's that easy, because the builder I talked to didn't make it sound that simple.  The problem, as I understand it, is that although you can jack it up very slowly and carefully, releasing the jacks is more sudden and uncontrolled, so the building may end up somewhere you don't want it.  Maybe all I'll need is a healthy level of optimism.  Can I have some of yours? ;)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

SPIKER

I did this same thing last year and too a bunch of photos, I had one benifit that the out bld didn't have any floor in the way. we jacked it up and poured a concrete pad and set it onto that and it is now a nice bld.  it was 16x20 with 7' wide door on one end.   we braced inside using 2x10's (which were handy)  screwed using good deck screws at each stud.  did same all way around front & back and both sides and braced opening.  we used bottle jacks INSIDE across a corner brace made from rough sawn oak 6' beams that were basically junk wood ~4"x6"x XX long used at each corner. we jacked up the barn and braced it up using a bunch of the rough sawn lumber that I bought at local amish sawmill for 30 bucks.  I have a bunch of pick posted on an of line photo bucket place that I can send you to to look at if you want read you're PMs for a link.   I think I posted here or at TBN about it as a process as several people wanted to know who we did it .

we used cheap 10 ton bottle jacks from harbor freight. I bought 2 new ones and had several laying around.   a FARM jack would have been much better as lifting and placing extra boards for the process slowed it down when stroke was only 6" at a time., the farm jacks have 3' travel.   always use good bracing and good blocking when lifting go slow and only go one 2x4 thickness at a time, use shims to get it up and keep blocking in close to the shed base/bracing.  I would probably cut the floor out of the shed before attempting to lift it but after bracing it well.  that way the floor is out of the way.  then I think I would do same as I did make a good stringer around the shed and then pour concrete floor inside.   I have a shed exactly like your's that I will be doing this to maybe next year.

1. brace it up inside well. (in pics we used 2x8s along walls and ends and also braced door opening)
2. cut out wood supported floor holes to see what needs to move.
3. brace up and make the shed sides level & ready for new bottom sill plate.
4. remove rest of flooring that may still be in way & level floor area as best as you can.
5. jack up shed and block up clean out inside of shed base level and prep for concrete.
6. build perimeter concrete form, lay down plastic sheeting inside & over form.
7 mock up in-floor bolts making sure they will align with sill plate on walls.
8. pour the floor 2 man job ~400 bucks in material costs and can be a DIY job for shed this side.
9. let crete dry & set down onto floor and bolt in place.   note you should be careful in placement of "formed in place bolts" otherwise use drill & floor anchors in the sill after it has cured.

If concrete truck can't get in to the place wheel barrel can work but rent one of the powered buggies.

If you want wood floor then you should use all treated wood and replace flooring and decking with all stuff rated for wet areas.

it took me and my brother about a week of playing around from start to finish part time to do mine last year cost was about 400 bucks for every thing including jacks. the biggest cost was 300 for concrete.   also cost some hamburgers on grill for assistance and liquid refreshment of choice :D (2nd biggest cost) lol

Mark M
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

tcsmpsi

How will you start?  Knock a few of the blocks out?  

I know on that one end at least part of the bottom plate and some of the studs have to be rotten (as well as the joists and flooring).

How will you start lifting that end?

If it were built on open blocks, and the ground were more level, I would be more inclined to lift the building.  As it is, you will be doing a lot of excavating and leveling of your lifting beam foundations.
That, coupled with the added difficulty of repariing the rotten structural components and flooring in the existing building.

Of course, I'm looking at it through the eyes a builder and ultimately the time factor and overall finished product become significant.
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Dodgy Loner

tcspmsi, since the joists are resting on top of the blocks, I won't need to knock any out to get started.  I'll just have to cut some holes in the siding.  Also, none of the bottom plates or studs have any rot.  In the photo up top where the rot is so bad, it's actually confined to the joists (even the subfloor is solid in that area).  I would like to start from scratch, but I really don't feel like that's my best option.  I'm not a builder and I'm pretty sure that tearing it apart and starting over would take a lot longer.

SPIKER, lot's of good information, thanks.  I thought about pouring a slab, but I've decided to go with the wood floor instead.  Pressure-treated floor joists, of course, since they'll be in contact with the cement blocks, and I think I solved my moisture problem after grading the soil to direct water around the building instead of under it ::).
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Tom

This is all way over my head.  I would have to be inventing as I went along, the same as you.  As far as letting it down and controlling the jacks, I wouldn't rely on just the jacks.  I would put dunnage beneath the building, next to the jack, so that it could only be lowered to the dunnage.  This would keep you from slipping and letting a jack go all the way down.  Then let the building down incrementally.

It sounds a lot easier than it probably will be.  :)

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Tom on September 30, 2008, 03:21:07 PM
It sounds a lot easier than it probably will be.  :)

Never done this before, but I know enough to recognize the truth in that statement ;).  Your suggestion for handling the jacks on the way down is pretty much what I had in mind.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

hokie97

Is simple putting in the retaining wall and adding drainage an option?  I assume since you are going to add a course of block that the foundation is in good shape.  Why not just rebuild what you have?  I think it looks like whoever built this the first time should have put that retaining wall in.

Radar67

Justin, to help prevent regular ground moisture from rising up to the bottom of the joists and sub floor, put a good 4 mil layer of plastic directly on the ground before you set everything back in place. Also, if you can coat the inside and outside of the block with a sealer it will help. I have used non fibered roof coating in a bind. A couple of vents in the block would be a good idea as well.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

SPIKER

Quote from: Radar67 on September 30, 2008, 04:18:13 PM
Justin, to help prevent regular ground moisture from rising up to the bottom of the joists and sub floor, put a good 4 mil layer of plastic directly on the ground before you set everything back in place. Also, if you can coat the inside and outside of the block with a sealer it will help. I have used non fibered roof coating in a bind. A couple of vents in the block would be a good idea as well.

I like that info, regarding the plastic and adding vented blocks in several sides.   I know they are available but don't know what they call them.   My sisters OLD house had them in the crawl space foundation. and wish I had something similar at the cabin as under it is damp a lot of the year...

Mark M
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Dodgy Loner

Radar, I've got plenty of leftover plastic from when I put in the vapor barrier in my crawlspace this spring, so I'll be sure to add a layer to my shed before I rebuild the floor.  Good idea about the vented blocks - I hadn't thought of that, but I'll definitely add that as well.

Mark, thanks a bunch for getting me those pictures.  I can't begin to tell you how helpful those were.  A picture is, indeed, worth 1000 words! :)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

SamB

I'd take Radar67's idea one step farther. Put a 2x8 or 2x10 band on the inside and outside of the studs and a diagonal brace on top of the inside band at each corner. Just like they band around the top of poles in most pole buildings, IMO that should give you enough support to jack it up as he suggests. If not you're into a salvage job :).Good Luck which ever way you go!

Don P

I haven't read all this real carefully but i've jacked houses similar to what Radar suggested. As far as safety, crib tight as you go, never let it be in a situation where it can drop more than an inch. Never, ever, use a block for a crib or bearing of any kind, the point loads will crush it and things will go south real fast. Have a whole bunch of dunnage and 1x-2x scraps around for shimming as you go. Setting down is no big deal just use your noggin and take it easy on the valves. No hurry at any time, keep your ears on and the boom box off.

SwampDonkey

Dad and my uncle moved a big old farm house with tractors, heavy support timbers an old truck frame and lotsa chain. Moved it 2.5 miles from one farm to my uncle's yard. Had 3 big hills to go up. My cousin was going to use it for his honey bee business, but some how it went from there to his mother's living room.  ::)

Sorry, I can't help ya. I think God was on there side in that move.  ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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moonhill

Before power lines got in the way buildings were moved frequently.  I saw an example of community strength in The Small Farmer Journal.  The Amish attached a grab bar around the exterior of a building and simply lifted it and walked it onto it's new foundation.  Many hands make light work.  Tim
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Dodgy Loner

Well, it was a productive weekend, even if we didn't get the job finished.  Dad came up on Friday afternoon and we emptied out the shed and got everything ready to jack up.  I should have known he would have already come up with a way to lift the building, and it turned out to be a lot less trouble than I expected.  All we did was bolt some 16' 2x10s to the side of the building to set the jacks under - simple and effective.  On Saturday morning, we sawed off the siding even with the bottom plates (it used to cover all the way to the sill board), braced the interior with some 2x10's nailed lengthwise along the walls and some 1x's nailed as angle braces.  We jacked her up and had the old floor ripped out by lunch.

Turns out, the question I should have asked was not "How do I lift a building?"  It was "How do I lay cement blocks when the existing foundation is not square, nor level, nor straight? >:("  We spent the rest of the afternoon laying one row of blocks along the front edge, and some of the mortar joints ended up being a full 1.5" thick!  We also had to pour some concrete to support the blocks in areas where the foundation was not straight.  On Sunday, we were finished laying the block by 3 PM, but we obviously had to wait for the mortar to set up before doing any more work, so dad went home and I'll be finishing up the floor by myself this afternoon :(.

Well, I know how y'all like pictures, so here are some to hold you over until the project is complete ;)

Here's the reason we're replacing the floor:



The 2x10's bolted to the side:



In the air:



Old floor ripped out:



Here's what the old floor looks like now:



New layer of cement blocks:

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

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