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Land survey costs

Started by Woolywolf, December 13, 2009, 07:35:27 PM

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stonebroke

tug hill

I think in NYS rockwalls are considered the boundary, after all they do not move.

Stonebroke

ksu_chainsaw

Last year I had a 15 Acre homesite cut out of the family farm and the survey cost us $1000 plus the filing fee at the courthouse to transfer the deed.  The surveyor put in pins on all corners and as far apart as possible on the interior lines but still have line of site from pin to pin, roughly 3-400 feet, it has a gravel road on 2 sides so that was easy enough to find.  I then put a 6' T post right next to each pin and then slipped a piece of white PVC pipe over each one.  In Kansas, to mark for no Hunting or Trespassing all you have to have is a 4" dia purple spray paint mark visible from the outside.  So each pipe i dipped in the purple PVC primer- staining the pipe permanently.

Charles

Magicman

Looks like my East property line is going to be surveyed for free.  There was one corner that I was dreading.  It's choked with blackberry briars.  Well it was International Paper property and has been in a holding company (RMS).  The "For Sale" signs were missing last week, and today I saw flagging tape.

I'll have to call the Land Surveyor to see what's going on.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Ron Scott

See of you can get a copy of their survey of the line.
~Ron

Magicman

Quote from: Ron Scott on December 17, 2009, 09:34:05 AM
See of you can get a copy of their survey of the line. 

Good point, and something that I had not thought about.  The property line is painted with yellow paint, but that's not a survey.

I found out today that my old highschool friend that was a surveyor, is now a "was".  Dang people are getting old and retiring......imagine that.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SwampDonkey

You can tell when one local timber company has been around, fresh orange paint and the line might not be where it used to be. Common occurrence. I mean a maintained red line that was kept up for decades is running parallel to a new orange, most times in their favor.

One guy tried going the cheap and moved a line where he thought it should be, no survey. It was over on public land when he got done. He cut the wood, and was charged with theft and probably for altering a maintained boundary to boot.

In the same token, I saw where a timber company hung ribbons for a harvest line. Trouble was, it ran down into a man's sugar bush and they gutted it. I don't think they were charged with theft or anything. I've seen some of their forest maps, the aerials they used to make them were so distorted they could be off 100 meters or more. I seen it myself many times and measured from a road to where they said the line was and it was way off (the map I mean).
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

woody1

We have alot of property and I have researched all of the deeds back to the original warrants. A few years ago a became addicted to the courthouse. I have two friends who are surveyor. One of them  did the connecting warrant map for our county. Both are in court alot. It sure is a thankless job. I know the amount of research and leg work that goes into a land survey. On one survey for our property I have a hand drawn map that has about 20 connecting properties. There has to be 50 lines that have conflicting meets and bounds.
I also never knew that a land survey is not legally binding, it is just that surveyors opinion of where the line should be. Correct me if I am wrong.
I know that here in PA fences and stonerows are just evidence and not a "for sure" of where the line is.
Woody
If you don't want to row, get out of the boat !

mburrow


Black_Bear

Quote from: woody1 on December 17, 2009, 05:43:25 PM
I also never knew that a land survey is not legally binding, it is just that surveyors opinion of where the line should be. Correct me if I am wrong.
Woody

You are absolutely correct. Lawyers, doctors, foresters, etc, they all give opinions. The professional is hired for his/her specialized knowledge in his/her field of expertise. Many states are slowly moving toward a 4-year degree requirement to become a land surveyor.  

SwampDonkey: When I was at Orono we often used literature on road engineering in BC, mainly because the engineering process in BC is how you described it: intense. With the terrain they have out there I can understand their position.

Woody: I love the research end of a survey. It can be time consuming, but it's neat to research back to the beginning of time (literally). In Maine you can research back to when Maine was still part of Mass.

Ed  

Magicman

I have the original "hand drawn on linen cloth" deed that my great grandfather got when he bought part of the land that I now own.  It's a neat artifact.  The court house records of that transaction probably was hand drawn at the same time by the surveyor.  I also have the loan papers showing where he financed the purchase and made a $150 annual payment for three years to pay it off.  That was in 1904, several years after he bought the first parcel.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ljmathias

Neat observation, Magic- someday our descendants will look back on our "paper" deeds and records and wonder how we managed without using more electrons.  Problem I have with electronic media- reading and archiving- is that it is harder to see (old eyes don't help) and gets lost easier.  Electrons travel pretty darn fast and disappear even faster, and lined up magnets and laser encoded dots and dashes- all subject to wear and tear.  Saw a report a few years back that claimed the most stable, long-term archiving media available is acid-free paper, can last centuries, even thousands of years if sealed, whereas the forms we have today are only designed for a decade or two.  But then, at the rate we're changing things, a few score from now, we'll all be hearsay...

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

SwampDonkey

Well look at old film, I bet a CD won't last no 100 years. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Magicman

I'll have to get that old linen cloth deed out of the safe and take a picture of it to share with you.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

mad murdock

this is a great thread.  I am modifying my "to do" list for this winter, and will be rechecking my lines on our tree farm.  All 4 corners are clearly marked.  As far as clearing brush along a line goes, in an earlier time, I did a fair amount of work supporting USGS survey crews with our helicopters in Alaska, who were doing Cadastral Survey on land that had never been gone over, setting brass caps and all.  The best tool I wielded was a "Sandvik" brush axe, you could wack through the nastiest brush with relative ease and even make clean swipes through 2" woody stems pretty easily.  Here is one from a supply house that my dad used to buy from when he was in the woods http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1763  I guess Haglof makes the thing now.  best tool I have seen for cutting line, much easier and more effective than a machette, nice thing is they are easy to sharpen, just put a new razor sharp blade on, and keep cutting.  One thing that makes my place easy to pick out is that there is a township line and section brass cap on one of my lines, plus the property is a square '40 ac.  A precise survey is worth the money, like magicman said though, you may be able to reduce cost by doing as much "grunt" work you can, so the surveyor isn't having to eat up the clock busting brush, unless you absolutely have no idea where to run a line. Then you are kind of stuck.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Black_Bear

Quote from: mad murdock on December 23, 2009, 12:20:50 PM
A precise survey is worth the money, like magicman said though, you may be able to reduce cost by doing as much "grunt" work you can, so the surveyor isn't having to eat up the clock busting brush, unless you absolutely have no idea where to run a line. Then you are kind of stuck.

How about an accurate survey? What are those worth? What if the survey is precise, but not accurate?

Generally, when a surveyor is retained to perform a job the client has no idea where all, if any, of his/her lines are. Out of possibly 200 surveys I've been on, I've yet to have a client cut brush for us. Correction, one time we had a D6 "cut line" when we created 40 acre lots in northern Maine spruce/fir regen about 5-15' tall.

mad murdock

I am a helicopter mechanic for my day job, so for me precise and accurate go hand in hand.  You have a good point though.  People all see things from different angles depending on their background.  If a guy has no ideal where to start on where his lines are, then he may be at the mercy of a surveyor, as they are the ones who can legaly set forth property descriptions and register said description with the county registrar.  I am sure the saying "posession is 9/10ths of the law", was quipped by some old land baron during a range war from long years ago. When it gets right down to it, the only way I could judge if I was getting a fair shake, would be to get some references from the surveyor, and follow up on them, to see if I was getting a fair shake or not.  Merry Christmass to all!
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

maple flats

I fail to understand how a survey can be precise and not accurate or visa versa. I know it happen but the professional should be both. This said, I know that no 2 surveys put a given line in the exact same spot. If you had a boundry line marked by 3 different surveyers there likely would be 3 lines. However, any of the 3 would be real close to whatever IS accurate, wherever that is.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Jasperfield

Precision is to repeatability, as accuracy is to nearness to truth. Both precision and accuracy are required, by statute, in all the United States.

In example: A precise survey is not necessarily accurate; An accurate survey is not necessarily precise.

Your three different professional surveyors (not jacklegs, wanna-bees, or untrained employees) given the same objective and having equal qualifying credentials, education & experience; and having identical field evidence, record evidence, orientation, and absence of title discrepancies; and correctly using calibrated instruments & appurtenances will determine the same corner positions (and their subtended lines).

Absence of any of the above will result in dissimilar results.

Most "meets and bounds" states (and many public land states) set forth ratio-of-precision specifications (compliance required under penalty of law) applicable to different classifications of survey. And they pertain to specific tolerances of distances measured, angles turned, and position of set or found monumentation.

Black_Bear

I got interrupted while I was typing and I see Jasperfield beat me to it, but here is what I had to write:

maple flats:

Precision in a survey provides a measure of repeatability. If the survey is performed using acceptable techniques that provide consistent results then precision will typically be high. However, if the precise surveyor locates and marks what he/she believes to be the line (i.e. along a stonewall) and that stonewall is not the line, then the survey is precise but not accurate. And yes, the professional should be both accurate and precise.

Measurements are merely evidence derived during a survey and are generally used to verify the relative positions of monuments. They are generally not the reason behind poor decisions. The lack of diligent research and analysis is what leads to the majority of problems and future conflicts.

Ed    

Holmes

 A property I bought took 3 months to survey 86 acres. The surveyor had to sort thru dozens of hand written or scribbled deeds then try to locate stake and stones put up over 100 years ago. Or find blazed trees that do not exist anymore. He spent a lot of time trying to translate the old deeds to modern measurements. A lot of the deeds do not state distance just old markers.I have heard of other deeds stating distance as  hatchet throws ,like 20 hatchet throws east. I wonder if that is 1000' or 4000'.
Think like a farmer.

indiaxman1

Most competent surveyors will be precise...my piece of ground was surveyed around 1850....they used chains....10 yrs ago was resurveyed using all the modern instrument....matched the old exactly...for marking property lines, esp. in rough terrain, topo map and compass help

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