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This ain't gonna work is it (1/4 sawing sycamore)

Started by Daren, August 09, 2008, 01:56:36 PM

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Daren

I managed to get the smallest of 4 logs a guy dropped off the other day on the mill, the only one that would fit. I guess I did not measure it, but I have a 34" inseam.




I got to thinking...then rethinking  ::). My mill will cut 11 1/2" inches deep, 25 wide. I laid this out on the end of the log with a scratch awl (then doctored it with the computer in the picture). The log is perfectly level as far as the pith from end to end as it sits.




I was thinking cut some flat sawn off and end up with a 23" cant. That cant I would 1/4 and have 4- 11 1/2" cants to "1/4 saw". Sawing off the top and flipping back and forth. (the 1/4 cant is turned 90 degrees in the picture, but I did not notice it till I added it. You know what I mean. The first cut should be off the top)




That ain't gonna work for sycamore is it ? I have 1/4 sawn smaller ones and you have to be pretty DanG close to true quarter to get the best fleck.

It just seemed so simple, too simple. Any other ideas ? Or has anyone "been close" to 1/4 saw and still got decent looking lumber. I have to 1/4 the bigger ones, no other way to get them on the mill.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

ladylake

 Seems like you'ld be not getting the most qs like that. I would square it up with 6" faces then drop down far as possible 4,6,8 inches and take a slab then stand on edge and saw through and though, give it a quarter turn or 180 and do the same.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Dan_Shade

Daren, can you split it with a chainsaw?  I don't like to do the flip back and forth method on larger logs, I like to put the pith pointing out, and saw down that way...



Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Tom

I think your representation is one to follow.  The grain of sycamore is anything but straight and cutting pependicular to it is guesswork at best.  I have had no problems in quartering and sawing as you show, with one exception.  You indicate that you want to make your cuts from the bark side of the cant and work inwards.  I would make my cuts from the pith side and work outwards.

If you aren't lined up exactly with the grain, a few well placed wedges under the cant will get you started.  Once you see the rays begin to appear, turn the cant 180 and make the cut that will be in contact with the bed as you saw the rest of it up.  Do it to both directions.  Your cant may not be square any longer, but it will be square to the grain.






TexasTimbers

Daren,

I quartered a little 20" syc not long ago and ended up with a good bit of lumber. It was a perfect log though. I settled for some rift too, but it still looked good. I used the method below on half of the log and then used the flip flop on the other half and that's where i got a little rift. I like cutting straight through the wedges for perfect 1/4 though. that's how I am going to do it from now on. I don't mind edging them. You need to have real good logs with not much taper to make the wedge payoff.

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Daren

Quote from: Dan_Shade on August 09, 2008, 03:06:38 PM
Daren, can you split it with a chainsaw? 

Yes can and have, many times...did not want to on this one if I could get by without it. I have 3 larger ones I have no choice but to split with the chainsaw and mill like you said and TexasTimbers showed. That is normally the way I do it. Been doing oak that way lately and smaller sycamore in the past. I just have some near 50" logs and  a manual mill, and I work by myself loading with a skidsteer. Gonna be a wrestling match  :-\

Tom, maybe my sketch/description was not clear. My original plan was make the big cant with the pith centered. 1/4 that cant and like you say saw from the pith down/out.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

TexasTimbers

This isn't the log I was referring to, I cut this one up even more recently. Couple weeks or so. It has something wrong with the wood. It has all sorts of ugly black lines in it. I have about seven logs infected with this disease. I guess I wll have to throw them in the burn pile like I did all this nasty stuff. Don't want to let this infect my other logs you know.

But I used the wedge and the flip flop on this log too. It wasn't as good a log as the one I milled a month or so ago. I should have flip-flopped this whole log. You can see how narrow some of those boards are. They're still usable though. Or, they would be if they weren't defective and all. 










The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Tom


tyb525

LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

metalspinner

Since you have so much and you will be using it for furniture (assumption) I would cut it extra thick.  Like 5/4.  Especially if you will get some really wide boards. Maybe go 6/4 on those.  I just pulled some 4/4 (1 1/8) out of the kiln and every little change in grain direction has a kink in it. :(  Not to mention the areas around a knot. ::) Over an 8' board, it will be difficult I think to get a consistant 3/4" from each board.

Those are wonderful looking logs. :)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Daren

Quote from: metalspinner on August 09, 2008, 06:29:07 PM

Those are wonderful looking logs. :)

The one on the mill has some branches. The bottom 1 did not, the second had 2 on the same face.




Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

backwoods sawyer

Don't get in to much of a hurry to through all that beautiful spalted wood away. Some people work at getting there wood to spalt like that.

First thing is round that log up a good bit. Then drop down as low as you can go with out hitting the saw guides and make a pass. Flip it and do the same on the other side. Set them both aside and stand the center section up and split it in half, lay the halves down and pattern thru them one at a time, Then stand the two pieces that you remove up and pattern down thru them. You can play with the angle to get true quarter sawn as you pattern down thru them, by making a couple of correction cuts.

Sorry no diagram.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

TexasTimbers

I was just tuggin on Daren's leg a little back saw. I'm one of those you mention that works at getting it that way. ;)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

solidwoods

?
Typically Spalted woods are more valuable than non.

The log in your pic is knotty.
I through saw those into slabs for table tops/mantles/benches  or make thick stock from them.

The qtr saw pattern you show cuts out the best figure in the log , the center.
I use the same type pattern but start from the center 2 faces and work out because as you get to the outer area the qtr saw angles run out.
jim
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

TexasTimbers

Quote from: solidwoods on August 10, 2008, 07:54:04 AM
?
Typically Spalted woods are more valuable than non.

The log in your pic is knotty.
I through saw those into slabs for table tops/mantles/benches  or make thick stock from them.

The qtr saw pattern you show cuts out the best figure in the log , the center.
I use the same type pattern but start from the center 2 faces and work out because as you get to the outer area the qtr saw angles run out.
jim

Jim, that was nearly a trash log because it had some punk, so I wanted to 4/4 and 6/4 it to get as many of the sound boards from it as I could. If not for the spalt I may not have even milled it. I like the big table top slabs too, but I wasn't liking all the punky areas I was hitting while knocking the slabs off, so I just kept taking thin boards off trying to maximize BF of good wood. I was able to get alot of good wood from it that way. if I had flitched it thick for table tops which i did consider (i am *always* looking for those in a log), I wouldnt have been able to cut out as much of the punk. These boards are going to be made into flooring blanks for the border of the timberframe edition. She keeps waffling on the main species but I know I want about an 8" border and I know i want spalted syc for it. She better pick a species that matches that. ;)

Daren I'm sorry to have sort of hijacked your thread. Good intentions and all. A road to a bad place is paved with them.  :-\ Maybe we will learn something from it anyway. Jim, now that you know about the punky parts in the log, if you have any more thoughts about what I said, or suggestions I am all ears. I believe the rest of the logs are at least as good as this one but probably better. This one looked in the worst shape and that's why I picked it out. I don't need all of them for flooring obviously sohow would you suggest I cut them up just for inventory (my own). Cants for resaw? I would rather get them in the kiln as soon as I mill them, so that's out. FYI most of the logs are excellent sawlogs albiet a hair on the small side, but big enough for 1/4 sawn. like I say, open for suggestions.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Daren

I did it anyway as an experiment, the log was way less than perfect and I have more.
Squared it up pulling slabs like I said till I was maxed out with the pith perfectly centered.




Not bad for a crooked and very tapered log.




Got it going my way now.




Pulled a few and at 7" wide still showing decent fleck.




Starting to fizzle at 5". Looks better in person than the sunny day picture, but still not wow factor stuff by any means.




At 4" wide the fleck was real wimpy, but has to be more stable still than flat sawn. I just pulled the remaining 4"X4"'s off for posts or something. It may not work every time but no waste (except the usual kerf and bark) for "1/4" sawn ain't too shabby. Less work too.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Dan_Shade

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

DanG

Daren, you otter be able to sell that 5" board for enough to buy a new pair of shoes. ;D :D

Nice work!! 8) 8)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Daren

Quote from: DanG on August 10, 2008, 10:10:08 PM
Daren, you otter be able to sell that 5" board for enough to buy a new pair of shoes. ;D :D



What ? I just got this pair broke in  ;) :D

That is something that bugs my dad to no end, me putting my foot on a board to take a picture. I send him pics email and he says "Cool wood...tell that dummy to take his ratty tennis shoe offin' it"  ::)
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

ladylake

 Here's how we qs, fast and easy, you end up with some rift sawn but every method does or a lot of waste.  Steve                                                                                                                                 

Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Dodgy Loner

Daren, I've used your method to quartersaw some big white oak logs, and it worked very well with little waste.  As soon as the ray fleck ran out, we just quit flipping the logs back and forth and cut rift sawn.  It's a quick and dirty way to Q-saw, but we ended up with a lot of good-looking lumber.  Looks like it worked well for you, too. :)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

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