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Silvatech setworks problem

Started by Matt K, August 02, 2008, 12:14:51 AM

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Matt K

First to introduce my self, since this is my first post. I do large tonnage HVAC service and repair to pay the bills but like to tinker around with any thing mechanical to keep busy.

I have just recently been exposed to saw mill operations through a friend that has been milling lumber for many years, when he asked me to help him put together a control panel for a machine he calls a break down mill. That all worked out great and now I am trying to help him out with a problem on another machine.

The machine is a 36" Sanborn Band mill with a Silvatech set works controller that he installed on it in 1984.
The problem is with the set controller. The cant sets activate the head blocks but the board sets do not activate the head blocks, the board sets do highlight on the screen.

I have looked at it to the best of my ability but can not find anything. It seems to me that it may be a board level problem. Silvatech seems to have gone out of business recently so we can not call them for help.

Does anyone have any recommendations for technical advice to trouble shoot. The Mill is in the SF Bay area.

Matt K

here is a picture of the mill and controller

beenthere

Matt K
Welcome to the forum.
Your area of interest and expertise could provide for some very interesting discussions.

Do you have any schematics of the electronic boards in the controller?
Did you get into such electronics when putting together the controls for your friends breakdown mill?

Without the information or assistance from Silvatech, you might have to trace the signals through the setworks, and decipher where the problem is located...either not getting the signals from the contoller or not executing the signals that are received at the head blocks.
I'll admit that it is over my head, but in the past have worked with electronics guys who did that kind of trouble shooting.

It doesn't sound like a simple or easy problem to solve, but hope it is.
Wish you luck. That's a lot of machine to see idle and not cutting boards.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ron Wenrich

I have a Silvatech on my mill, but I'm not the electronic genius that set it up.  Silvatech did go out of business, but the technical end can still be addressed with a guy in Washington state.  I don't have his number, but can get it if you're interested.  He wants a pretty healthy price just to give information, but it is available.

The way my setup works is that you need to activate the headblocks with a set switch.  You cannot activate it from the Silvatech.  Here's what my unit looked like at installation:

 

We have since changed it a little.  The dial was the original system that we were using for backup.  We have gotten rid of that.  My set switch is on the handle to the left.  That also is used to control the carriage. 

The yellow buttons are probably what you are calling the cant buttons.  Basically, they are the buttons you use to build a stack.  A stack is the cutting order you're calling for.  You can program each one of those buttons to any thickness you want.  It will add the needed kerf so that you end up where you want without searching a gauge.

The red buttons are probably what you are calling the board buttons.  They don't really have a target size other than taking the current headblock position and subtracting the kerf and board thickness to come up to the next target.  Its activated by the set switch. 

Typically when sawing a log, you input a board thickness.  Each time you want to get a board, you hit the set switch.  The headblocks advance and you move your carriage.  This is done only on the red buttons.  Eventually you'll want to turn the log.  Turn 90° and repeat the process.

When you turn to side 3, normally you'll want to get to a target size.  Mine varies, depending on the blocking order.  If I want to go to 6", I'll start by hitting the yellow 6" button.  I can then add either boards from the red buttons or anything from the yellow buttons.  It ends up building the stack.  When I hit the set button, the headblocks then go to that point.  Each time you hit the set button it will go through the stack until you get down to the target size.  If you hit the set again, it will go through the last size of board you pulled.

It sounds to me like you don't have it quite set up right.  The Silvatech shouldn't be setting from the panel.  It should be setting from a control switch.  I'm assuming that is what is to the lower right of your Silvatech panel.  Your switch should be energizing the coils to allow your headblocks to set.  The Silvatech just tells the coils when to shut off.  We're using a hydraulic setup to control our headblocks.  Is yours electric, air or hydraulic?

I do have one suggestion on your setup.  Your monitor seems to be sitting awful high.  I've seen a lot of setups where they put the monitors where a guy has to look up to see what's going on.  You can see that mine is at eye level, right where the work is being done.  You'll kill a guys neck if he has to look up all day long. 

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

bandmiller2

Matt I'am not much help but I'am sure silvartech was used by outher origional equip. manufacturers that are still in business.If that doesn't work check the grounds,equipment grounds are like the proverbial butler the always done it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Matt K

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on August 02, 2008, 07:18:09 AM
the technical end can still be addressed with a guy in Washington state.  I don't have his number, but can get it if you're interested.  He wants a pretty healthy price just to give information, but it is available. Yes If you can get it it would be someone to call


The yellow buttons are probably what you are calling the cant buttons.  That is correct


The red buttons are probably what you are calling the board buttons.  That is correct

It sounds to me like you don't have it quite set up right.  The Silvatech shouldn't be setting from the panel.  It should be setting from a control switch.  I'm assuming that is what is to the lower right of your Silvatech panel.  Your switch should be energizing the coils to allow your headblocks to set.  The Silvatech just tells the coils when to shut off.  We're using a hydraulic setup to control our headblocks.  Is yours electric, air or hydraulic?
Nothing has changed in the set up since 1984 there is a set switch which went out one time, I was hoping that was the problem again, I believe that it is hydraulic

I do have one suggestion on your setup.  Your monitor seems to be sitting awful high.  I've seen a lot of setups where they put the monitors where a guy has to look up to see what's going on.  You can see that mine is at eye level, right where the work is being done.  You'll kill a guys neck if he has to look up all day long.  he has been using it that way for almost 25 years I think his neck would get sore if it changed



Quote from: beenthere on August 02, 2008, 02:16:16 AM
Matt K

Do you have any schematics of the electronic boards in the controller? None yet I asked him to look
Did you get into such electronics when putting together the controls for your friends breakdown mill?
It was electromechanical no computers to set up no computer boards

Without the information or assistance from Silvatech, you might have to trace the signals through the setworks, and decipher where the problem is located...either not getting the signals from the contoller or not executing the signals that are received at the head blocks.
That is about as far as I got, and could maybe get furter with a schematic

but in the past have worked with electronics guys who did that kind of trouble shooting. Do you have contact information

That's a lot of machine to see idle and not cutting boards.
not sitting idle just not cutting as fast, he is using the scale

Ron Wenrich

If its hydraulic, it could also be a coil.  Have you put a meter on the switch to rule that out?  Any break in an electric line would also cause the same problem.  You might also check to see if there are any relays that might have burnt out or aren't working as good as they should.  We also have a fused line in our box that can give the same problems when the fuse blows.  We've also had some minor problems with some connections in the box of the Silvatech.   

I'm not sure that the Silvatech came with schematics.  Our schematics are of our electrical layout for the entire mill.  If I find anything useful, I'll copy it for you. 

When I get the number of the tech, I'll send you a message with the number.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ron Wenrich

Matt

I have a name and number for a guy that has helped us in the past.  It is not the same guy as the one in Washington.  Check your IM.

If you need more info, let me know.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Matt K

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on August 04, 2008, 07:16:57 PM
Matt

I have a name and number for a guy that has helped us in the past.  It is not the same guy as the one in Washington.  Check your IM.

If you need more info, let me know.


Got the message thanks a bunch.
Matt

hunt_x

hey Matt greetings from Vancouver Island I have a heads up for you if you do find out it's a board level problem there is an outfit down there in Cali that is a board rebuilder they can perform Voodoo when it comes to electronics I have used there services on more than one occasion when what I needed was no longer in production or from OEM or integrating systems OEM never dreamed of. I am a bit of a tecky and a total gear-head myself with diploma in communication tecknowledgey and being a ham radio nerd as well, any way heres the link   http://www.nyco-systems.com/Repair/ to the site check it out you may even find they can do board repairs rebuilds on the HVAC  control systems you work on at a better price than you are currently getting from your suppliers
Dave in Vic
Davez not here man

Matt K

Quote from: Matt K on August 04, 2008, 07:42:42 PM
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on August 04, 2008, 07:16:57 PM

I have a name and number for a guy that has helped us in the past. 

Got the message thanks a bunch.
Matt

THANK YOU VERY MUCH
Every thing is working again, Joe knows his stuff fixed it over the phone, when he asked a question there was no hesitation with the next step when I answered what he asked.
In the end all it needed was 99S punched in.

Matt

Ron Wenrich

 8)

You're welcome.  I'm glad Joe was able to help you out.  Its also good to know he's still around. 

You ought to have your friend come on over to the forum and tell us about his operation.  We're always interested in how other people are milling logs and lumber.   ;)
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Matt K

Joe gave us the shop phone, and his home phone to go along with the cell number you gave me. He also has parts and can repair parts also.

I must have heard the name of the company incorrect because I can not seem to find it anywhere.

I told Pete to check out this site he would fit right in. I just do not know where he would fit since he has a Band mill and a Circular Mill as well

Matt

Matt K

Quote from: hunt_x on August 05, 2008, 05:50:36 PM
hey Matt greetings from Vancouver Island I have a heads up for you if you do find out it's a board level problem there is an outfit down there in Cali that is a board rebuilder they can perform Voodoo when it comes to electronics I have used there services on more than one occasion when what I needed was no longer in production or from OEM or integrating systems OEM never dreamed of. I am a bit of a tecky and a total gear-head myself with diploma in communication tecknowledgey and being a ham radio nerd as well, any way heres the link   http://www.nyco-systems.com/Repair/ to the site check it out you may even find they can do board repairs rebuilds on the HVAC  control systems you work on at a better price than you are currently getting from your suppliers
Dave in Vic
Thanks we actually called them first, but they wanted us to pull all of the components off and send it to them.
Matt

hunt_x

Oh dude that would have been a real mess glad you got it figured out some of those proprietary systems can be a total mystery with out the knowledge of the manual eh.
Dave
Davez not here man

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