Continuing my Mobile Dimension education

[Celeriac]

I guess I've been absent from the forum for quite a while so I thought I'd relay some of what's been going on with my mill.  Nothing earth shattering but someone might find it interesting. 

The batteries for the power lift were getting iffy last fall and by this summer were shot.  It seems to me that they should have been deep cycle instead of regular ole batteries.  Either way I've resisted laying out the cash for batteries in light of how little I use the mill.  Then last week a friend dropped off a stack of logs to saw.  After cranking for 10 minutes on a blistering hot afternoon something had to give.   Thinking on it for a bit I made an adapter for the cordless drill.  It works pretty well, put it in low and squeeze the trigger.  Certainly not a solution for continuous use but not bad for the occasional. 

One end is turned down to 1/2" to chuck in the drill.  The other end is drilled 5/8" to go over the motor shaft.  I drilled and tapped for a 8-32 screw which engages the keyway in the shaft.


On another note I've been trying to work some of the other bugs out of the mill.  I've had a lot of problems with the carriage jumping and such.  I'm sure I need to check the roller clearances and such.  The saw was setup with the large edger.  I decided since I'm mostly sawing 4/4 and 8/4 that I should switch back to the small edger.  Moving the main saw in seems to help quite a bit with stability.

I've decided to try a set of carbide teeth on the mainsaw as well.  Any experiences good or bad with them?  If it works there should be a video clip of sawing some White Oak.  Cheers.
http://www.youtube.com/v/M9YqBgdMB8s&hl

[DanG]

I'd be interested in hearing more about the instability problems you had with the large edger, as I'm thinking about switching to it.

The rollers can cause a lot of problems if they aren't in good shape.  The particular one that can really mess you up is on the left side of the track beam.  That one froze up on my saw one time and it gave me fits until I found it.

ps: if you're having trouble posting pics, shoot me a PM and I'll try to help you through it. ;)

[Celeriac]

Well I'm far from an expert when it comes to the mill.  My summary of the big edger is that it's fine for what it is intended i.e cutting larger sizes.  It seems that it is fairly easy to over feed the big edger and stick it, which isn't a pretty sound considering the price of belts.  As for stability I was getting a lot of jump, almost a chugging, when cutting smaller lumber, say 4/4 by 6".  In that case there's no way to get either stabilizer against the log.  I'd guess the coarse tooth count on the main saw contributes to that as well.

Now that I've moved to the small edger I can get the stabilizer in from the side on 4/4 cuts.  The main saw is also 4" closer to the beam so there is less leverage against the beam. 

One other problem I need to investigate is the tension rods in the beam, they don't appear to be properly tensioned, some are tight and some are loose.  Time for some penetrating oil and the manual. 

[DanG]

It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the dynamics of your saw.  Having not operated with the large edger before, I hadn't thought of the additional leverage causing more bounce.  I've been considering switching to the large edger, and also of upgrading to the 12 tooth main blade.  Based on your assessment, it appears that the large edger would make the 12 tooth conversion even more important.

I have learned a few lessons the hard way on my mill.  One of them is to not overtighten the main belts.  After having replaced the edger belts, I make sure they are tighter than the main belts, so that any slippage occurs on the mains. ;)

[Celeriac]

Hmm, good idea on the main belts.  I'll have to give them a look.  I would say try the big resaw  and see what kind of results you get.  Isn't there and in between edger size as well?  What's the story on the 12 tooth main? 

[Celeriac]

I called Mobile about the 12 tooth blade.  Good thing I wasn't drinking something when they gave me the price.  ;D  If I did a lot of sawing it would be worth a try, supposed to make a smoother cut with less kerf loss which would be fine by me. 

[DanG]

So, what kind of numbers did they repeat that would have caused ya to spew yer beverage of choice all over the place? ???  There is less metal in the 10 guage blade than the 8 guage, and all the difference is 6 extra holes.  Push come to shove, I think somebody like Menominee Saw could poke some more holes in the blade I have, for a fairly reasonable price. :

[Celeriac]

That's a thought.  I have an extra blade that came with mine, not sure what condition it's in.  I expect 1/4'' teeth in an 8 gage is getting snug?

[DanG]

  I expect 1/4'' teeth in an 8 gage is getting snug?

I've been wondering about that.  What saye ye ole circle millers?  What gage blades are ye running with yer kwatter einch teethe, eh?

[DanG]

Beg my pardon, if ya would please.  I was waxing a bit piratey for a moment there.  It is something that comes over me once in a while.  I wouldn't think it's the beer, but ya never know about a thing like that. :

[StorminN]

DanG, I think MD asks a little less than $100 per tooth for the 12-tooth blade...  ;)

Celeriac, I like your drill driver fix! Nice!

I don't believe there's a blade size between the large and small edger blades. MD could clarify, but I think the 128's take a slightly bigger large edger blade than the large edger blades that fit on a 127, that might be what you're thinking of.

I don't see why you couldn't use 1/4" bits in your 8 gauge blades, especially if the bits are new... that's only 1/32" smaller on either side... I think I've tried this?

I agree that the track rollers & adjustments are super important. A local sawyer was having problems with his MDS and I went to check it out, and his mill's track rollers (right side, big rollers) were worn, as was his track... he ordered new ones from MD, installed them, and it solved his problem. The way to check the right-side ones is to take a dial caliper and measure the rollers and then measure the track... because the track does wear down eventually. MD sells undersized rollers to fit worn tracks. The manual covers how to adjust the left-side ones, the ones that look like (or are) cam rollers. Like Dan said, make sure they are spinning. Depending on your mill's vintage, they can have a zerk fitting at the center of each roller.

I haven't used carbide teeth, but I use the Stellite teeth that MD sells. I like them. Of course, I don't get much trash (none?) in my logs because I'm only cutting logs from my own lot... only the occasional dirt or mud. The only metal I've hit is the saw itself! All told, I'm pretty happy with how long the teeth last.

-Norm.

[Celeriac]

Well I've been doing some checking around.  One saw shop said it wouldn't be a problem to punch 6 more pockets but then discovered they no longer had a #3 punch and mill. >:(

I called another outfit and talked a spell.  Their process doesn't work for adding teeth but he quoted me a price of about $600 for a new blade, 30", 12 tooth, with a 4 week lead time.   Also, he suggested making the new saw B pattern.  Obviously the #3 is not too common.  From our conversation my understanding is that Simonds is the only manufacturer and they are probably in the process of phasing out the slow moving styles.  I asked why MD used a #3 and the conjecture is that they make their saws in house and that a single circle pocket is considerably easier to machine.  The double circle B and F styles are more complicated but make a stronger and more durable setup.  On another interesting note he said that while MD recommends the overlay Stellite teeth that recommendation is really more relevant to the Northwest and not to the South and Northeast.  The way I understand it some wood species in the Northwest cause a reaction with carbide which leads to early failure or premature wear.  His suggestion was to run carbide or regular steel in this part of the country.  I'd certainly be interested to hear some confirmation or further information about the trees eating carbide ???

All that being said, someday when I feel wealthy I'll give them a call and order a saw.  Actually, I'll call some other manufacturers too but at that price it doesn't make sense to modify the old saw when you can get a new one with improved technology.

[oakiemac]

The problem with the larger edger blade sticking into the log and burning up the belts is caused by not having the correct lead in the saw blade. It is very tricky getting the correct lead but well worth the time. I once changed the edger belts and then couldnt saw anything wider then about 4" with the bottom edger without it sticking in the log and smoking the belts. Once I got the lead right then it cuts like a dream up to 8" wide boards.

[hunt_x]

hey brother heres the the best fixes i have found for the MDS...... belts- get common back belts you should be able to order a belt that is like 5 belts with a common back they have way more traction.  first rule of the mobile dimension is to be adjusted as straight and true as you can get it  and minimum lead as you can get away with stelite  teeth are the way to go but you need a borzon wheel to grind them but they last longer and stay sharper longer than any other tooth. and you should take a look at putting water on the blades a simple set up with a cable between the left side end stands and 1/2 food and beverage hose (reinforced) trickling a small amount of water onto the center of both blades works well and 1/4" flare copper tube  zap strapped to the head-rig can be setup to do the job easy and just enough to keep the fine saw dust out of the air if you don't have pressurized water maybe you can use a 45 gal polly barrel and gravity feed. and get delco marine alternator biggest you can find for your mill (marine are explosion proof) if fumes cant get in neither can sawdust. take a separate lead from the 12 post on that alternator and get a set of welding cable plugs set up the female plug on the head rig and the male on the track at the operator end so when the saw at rest they engage make sure the male plug has a cover over it so it does not create a risk of shorting out and run wire to the 12 volt source for the end stand motor (2 6 volt deep cycle marine in series is the way to go here too) this way the alternator does most of the work and your batteries stay constantly topped up you can also use a marine battery switch to direct 12 volt power to other 12 volt things you may use around the mill like lights ect.
Dave in Vic.

[hunt_x]

Oh ya and more teeth mean more power it takes proportionately more power to cut with a greater number of teeth and to be honest board quality in negligible, compared to a bandsaw ya its ruff but you can cut 4 times as many compared to a band saw. you can always drop a 2180 cc dualport on it and use a 24 tooth headsaw. I put a 140 hp corvair 6 cyl on a mighty mite and extended the saw frame so it had 2 30" blades main and edger and could cut 12x12 in one pass it also gave the sawyer alot more flexibility in sawing and grade recovery bigger pieces of high grade and also you could take out a nice large wedge from the heart when sawing wood with center rot like western red cedar and hemlock with rotten guts. i cut a lot of that crap in my day
Dave in Vic

[StorminN]

Hey hunt_x,

Last time I was at the MD factory, I looked at a brand-new 128, and I think it had the common back belts on it... maybe they have switched to them? I know for sure that it had a watering system on it, and it also had a wireless remote kill switch.

I've been thinking about tapping the 12V off the alternator to charge the trailer batteries, and I was going to  build it like the WoodMizers are, with a brass strip... but now that you say welding plugs, that gets me thinking...

Do you have pictures of the welding plugs setup and the watering setup?

Oh yeah, when I was at the factory last, I also saw a 30 tooth blade that they were playing with... but like you said... that means power, and my old 1600 only makes maybe 50hp...

-Norm.

[hunt_x]

Sorry no pics of the water system my crazy X burned most of my personal type pics but i can tell ya it was nothing fancy a 1\4" flare T  screwed on the discharge chute one tube pokin thru driblin in the main blade the other one set up to drible down the edger shaft thats about it i think. I have about a couple of million board ft logged on the MDS and about half as many modding and wrenching on them
Dave in Vic

[sawmill_john]

Hey guys, you can put (power band) multiple belts on the edger, however the backs will be cut of in a matter of hours, the MDS edger pulley has deep grooves (custom) and the standard belt they now use is a 2 belt banded - 3 per set(6 grooves) we tried the 3 belt banded set up but the belts started to seperate because of the 90 degree twist the belts take.  So on the new mills the pulley grooves are shallower and spaced closer togather, with out altering the pulley they won't perform well. Sorry.

As for adding teeth to a blade, it's tough to place the tooth in the proper place, if it's off by .005" you'll get a surge in the blade, and don't run 1/4" teeth in an 8ga. body, that's asking for trouble, there just isn't enough clearance to do it. 

The problem with the large edger saw sticking in the cut probably can be traced back to the edger belts(condition,& tension), teeth/shank(sharpness, condition), probably not lead, that will usally heat the blade and make it dive or climb.

Good luck with your mill, they're great if maintained and running well!  otherwise they can be almost as frustrating as a old chainsaw!

What's Up DanG?  still doing your part keeping the adult beverage companies  from going under?


john

[hunt_x]

and i beg to differ with ya john but gates does make a belt that will work on the MDS edger I have used them and cut plenty of wood with out edger belt failure in fact this increases the life span of the edger belts that is you don't have to change them as often. here is the link for those belts     http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2921&location_id=3102    also there is a link on that page for you to contact gates engineers to discuss any and all drive belt problems or applications. My MDS was heavily modified 128 hydrostatic with a 2180 cc dualport and i had to run those belts because singles would just smoke off in a heavy cut my best day with that mill was 7000 bdft in 2" western red cedar. And they are a great mill !!
Dave in Vic

[sawmill_john]

Dave,
  I didn't say that the belts weren't available, gates will make any number up to the drum size, the problem with the older mills is they aren't set up to run that style of belt.   
We ran a set of 6 banded on a mill for a while it showed signs of over heating the pulley, and we were afraid this would cause premature pulley failure.   
When I was buying the belts at MDS gates decided that they didn't want to make our belts, so we were basically forced to buy imported belts which I really did not want to do, but they refused to private lable the belts, so we were left with no option. 
sounds like you had your mill set up right, and probably keep the teeth sharp, and belts tight, I can't even guess at how many times I spoke with customers that didn't have a clue of what to do, as a result they had one problem after another.  I blame alot of this on the training and lack of instruction on the part of MDS, the manuals were rough to say the least, I did alot to moderize the manual and instructions, but I was busy doing purchasing and scheduling, and to tell you the truth it wasn't a top priority to educate the customers, I wanted to make a video but that was shot down, I'm not sure what they do now, I've been gone for almost 4 years now, and haven't really seen what they're up to lately.
So all those things you've done are great but try to have some one alter a mill that can barely sharpen two teeth the same and talk about asking for trouble.
So do you still have your mill?

[Paul_H]

John,

How long did you work for Mobile Mfg? Was it before or after the 128 first came out?
Sure do miss having you on the other end of the phone when I have to call down there.

[sawmill_john]

Howdy Paul, I miss talk'in with all your guys too.  I spent 22 years, at Mobile, I don't reget a single day, but it was time to move on and I'm glad I did, I've worked into a good good position, at an architectural sheet metal company as a project manager, and I feel very appreciated, and as a company we are doing very well.  I started back in 1983, we still had some 127's when I started, I was around when we upgraded to the hydrostatic drive system, and I was there for the band saw mills we built, what an abortion, that turned out to be. If I remeber correctly 1982 was when the 128 was introduced.  How are you, still cutting?  did your electric start finally get straightened out?

[Paul_H]

Hi John,

I'm still cutting but not as much as before when we were milling ties and crossing planks.I have done a few t&g Birch floors and have a nice load of 1" Birch sitting in the kiln right now but I'm trying to learn to say "no thanks" when I get calls.

I had wondered when the swap over betwen the drive systems came about.I was helping a friend fix up a mill he is borrowing.It's an old 128 with the mechanical drive and it looks to be ridden hard and put away wet.The return rope reel was bent up and some parts need building up or replacing.

Yes,I got the electric start working with no problems at all(other than the shipping issue) I was impressed how well the parts all fit together with no filing or fooling around.
I'm glad things are working out for you with your new job and sure appreciate that you still look in on us here and share your knowledge of the MD's .