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The Tomato Crisis...what a joke!

Started by DanG, July 04, 2008, 12:21:58 AM

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DanG

Well, it would be a joke if it was funny. 

What the heck is going on with the FDA and CDC?  It has become obvious that they are a bunch of blithering idiots, or they are crooked.  They have just destroyed a vital industry with either a blind screaming paranoid panic, or a cold, calculating execution.  I can't tell which, from where I sit.

Beginning in the first part of April, about 90 days ago, about 300 people came down with Salmonella poisoning.  These people were scattered all over our Country of 300 MILLION people.  One in a million, right?  These people were asked to recall what they had eaten in the past few days, and tomatoes came up(no pun intended ;D ) as a common denominator.  I'm quite sure that other things were frequently mentioned, but none of them seemed to ring any bells, so FDA declared tomatoes to be unsafe.  They shut down farm after farm after farm, but the Salmonella outbreak continued.  Finally, yesterday they conceded that it MAY not have been tomatoes after all, because they had tested every cottonpickin' tomato on the face of the earth and had found none to be contaminated, so they are gonna go after onions again. ::)

When this alleged epidemic first hit the news, about 60 days after it supposedly began, I said to Linda, "Now that's crazy!  They don't harvest tomatoes from the same farm for more than a month before moving on to the next area.  Besides, one person with Salmonella out of each million of population is ridiculously low."  Let's do some math here.  I'll ask some questions and Y'all provide the answers. ;D  How many of our 300,000,000 people took a bite of raw tomato in the last 90 days?  How many of them ate raw tomatoes on a regular basis over that whole period?  How many of them ate NOTHING but tomatoes?  How many of them would have gotten Salmonella poisoning if they had never seen a tomato in their lives?  I could go on with the questions, but you probably get my point.  There was never any outbreak of Salmonella, and there would have been no reason to suspect tomatoes if there had been.  So, that begs one more question. Why?  I'll help you out a little on this one.  I'll say right up front that I have no hard facts or inside information to go on, but there is one Mexican-based company that has been harvesting the tomatoes around here for some years now.  They are the only harvesting company I've seen in the 14 years I've lived here, and they apparently have more trucks than JB Hunt and Schneider combined.  In the past few years, they have branched out from just contracting the planting and harvesting, to leasing land and growing their own crop.  Then they started buying out some of the smaller processing houses, and then some of the bigger ones.  In just a couple of years, I've gone from having a half-dozen buddies that made their living growing tomatoes, to not even having a common language with a grower!

I've never been a conspiracy theorist, but something fishy is going on here.  I can't figure out if the Gov't is trying to drive the Mexican company out, or helping them complete their takeover of the entire industry. ???

Now I know I've opened a can of political worms here, so y'all keep it polite and please identify your opinions as opinion and not as fact, ok?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Left Coast Chris

The last time I remember the issue hitting close to home was the bad lettice they traced to a single supplier here in Calif.  Once found the consumers relaxed and started eating lettice again.  The industry took a huge hit.  Another one that comes to mind was the recent story of Condoleza Rice attempting to get the Koreans to buy American beef again.  Never read what started it.  Probably the mad cow disease awhile back.  One further back was the apples that sickened school children.

The point is that from an overall perspective it looks like over time they are not targeting one single vegetable or establishing a patturn that we can really draw a conclusion on.   They do appear to be reacting to people getting sick which is their job.  What is unexplainable is in an investigation they keep releasing half baked information causing damaging reactions to the particular industry.  Perhaps a good sized law suit for damages incurred due to misinformation would change some internal policies at the CDC and FDA.  Not sure if there is a law protecting the gov from law suits in these cases but if there is that woud explain alot regarding thier appearent freedom of spewing misinformation.

On a minor positive note it has seemed to help our local farmers market as more people want to know who raised and handled their food.   :)
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

Ron Wenrich

I think you have a couple of things going on that contribute to the whole mess.  The food industry is pretty much industrialized.  That means you want the highest production with the lowest costs.  Quality is rarely one of the features.  Produce is often gassed, picked green or some other measure used to make food look good.  Consumers continue to buy their food by cost and not by quality, so they deserve what they get.  Of course, many of them don't know any better.

Government has their tentacles in every operation there is.  Public safety is their calling card.  So, in order to make themselves feel important, they have to react to certain claims.  Some of the bureaucrats actually feel powerful when they can come in and shut down operations. 

I think you described how they come to their conclusion.  They look for the smoking gun.  But, I have to wonder how many cases of salmonella are reported each week.  Looking at the USDA fact sheet on salmonella, you would think that raw meat was more of a problem than tomatoes.  Could it be a coincidence or is something else to blame?  Possibly.  Apparently, something has made a bunch of people sick.

After doing some reading, it appears that the FDA has also had problems with tomatoes in the past.  There were 12 outbreaks in the past 10 years.  They put the problem areas as parts of Florida and eastern Virginia.  The FDA has worked with both growers and manufacturers to improve the safety.  I would think that would benefit the industry. 
 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

farmerdoug

They use to just say the flu was going around. ::)

The tomato scare is going to bankrupt alot of tomato growers.  Tomatoes are still dead in the store and resturant sales.

I wonder if we can start a scare about gasoline.  It will cause people to stop using it and drive the price down to a reasonable level for us. :D :D :D
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Don P

I don't know what we can do about that kind of fear mongering. "Mothers and Others" destroyed several apple growers here. Get a movie harlot... ummm starlet, to speak out of their league and real people go under.
"Boys poke at the frog in jest, the frog dies in earnest"

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

We might find as much difficulty in finding the initial source of "the scare"
as the FDA, CDC, and AG. Dept. have had in finding the source of the contamination.

Information leaks are so prevalent in our information age, that a lot of the
"information" turns out to be garbage, instead.  It could be that information
leaked out and someone higher up had to decide what to do in response to
that inappropriate leak.  The 24-hr. news we have today feeds into the problem.
They have to have something to talk about. 

If this is not the case, then some upper-level heads should roll.  Instead of the
proper, controlled reaction to a limited problem, this was definitely one more over-reaction
to be added to the list.  If it was a lower-level employee who was responsible, then
they should be the one sent out the door of the responsible bureaucracy.

I like the old saying Don P. points out.  Thank goodness we at least know that
these agencies are not being cavalier.  They have a serious concern, but have handled
it poorly; the media giving them all the help that they can muster.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

stonebroke

The problem is they are not responsible to anyone. They have to create crisis to justify their positions. It is other peoples money that they lose.

Stonebroke

TexasTimbers

On the opposite end of the spectrum, a recent study widely circulated by the media says watermelon rinds will give a man a "viagra effect". I bet watermelons will outsell tomatoes 100 to 1 this weekend. ::)

The tomato scare hasn't slowed our intake of them.  
Eating a tomato is a lesser risk of salmonella poisoning than getting struck by lightning. In fact, Florida has twice as many deaths by lightning as the next closest state, and men are struck 4 times by it more often than women.

So DanG, if you want to live on the edge this July 4th, stand out in your front yard holding an aluminum rod while eating a tomato.




The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Roxie

Here is a link to the CDC website regarding the current "outbreak".

http://cdc.gov/salmonella/saintpaul/faq.html#g1

If you read the information regarding Salmonella, the CDC admits that almost all purchased chicken has salmonella and that's why you should be certain it is cooked well.  Also, according to their own statistics, this "outbreak" looks nothing more than what they list as the historical numbers of people who get salmonella each year.  We're talking about an upset digestive system which resolves itself and rarely has complications. 

I was in a grocery store yesterday, and saw a ten year old girl with her mother.  The girl was looking at the ready made tossed salad, and her mother said, "No, we're not getting that.  Nothing is safe to eat anymore."  I felt sorry for the girl because her mother is so foolish to unnecessarily frighten her child on such flimsy evidence.  Now, for the record, I don't eat bagged salad because I think it smells icky.  But, this woman's over reaction is due to her limited ability to investigate the reality and make informed decisions. 

In my opinion, the CDC has been irresponsible in allowing the news media to hype what appears to be normal occurances of digestive upset.  I also think it is outrageous that the CDC would name tomatoes as the source without having found one single tomato that was contaminated.   The story of the boy that cried 'wolf' comes to mind, and that puts the population in more danger if something with a serious threat comes up and we're all just sick of listening. 

Say when

Gary_C

I hate to throw cold water on a good conspiracy idea, but the notion that the FDA and the CDC along with state health depts could get together and conspire or even work together on anything is laughable. Then there is the USDA meat inspection people also.  ::)

If you want to read about what is going on check this out:

http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/saintpaul/

They actually can identify the particular strain of salmonella that is involved. What is most difficult is finding the source and they have not found where it is coming from. That is why they are now looking at ingredients in salsa and guacomole as suspects.

But the problem is real and over 900 people have been reported sick and probably many more not reported. And the FDA has their own site with more info.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

DanG

Even if you got S. poisoning from a tomato, it is highly unlikely that it came from the farm.  You are nuts if you eat a commercially produced tomato without washing it, anyway.  They spray the heck out of those things on a regular basis!  Even if you peel it, if it isn't washed you get the poison on your hands and transfer it right back to the peeled fruit. ::)

The big growers have 2 ways of harvesting tomatoes.  They come in with busloads of pickers and a convoy of semis and pick the fruit green.  That's the ones that go to the packing house and get culled, washed and inspected.  Then, a whole bunch of little trucks come in and work the field for pinks and reds.  There will be 4 or 5 Mexicans on each truck, and they pick, cull and box the tomatoes right there in the field.  I don't know where those tomatoes go, or what arrangements those guys have to allow them into the fields.  There will usually be 25-30 of those trucks in a field on any given day, so they are moving a lot of product.  I see them gathered on vacant lots around the area in the evenings, transfering the boxed product into semis...no washing and no inspection. ::) ???

Ever watch the workers in the typical fast food restaurant?  They wear those little plastic gloves most of the time, but they don't change them when moving from one area to the other.  I've seen the "sandwich artists" at Subway make a sandwich, then go to the cash register and accept money(filthy stuff), and go right back to handling the bread, meat and veggies, all without removing or changing the gloves.  Sounds like a good place to pick up some Salmonella to me. ::)

Yeah Gary, I admit the conspiracy theory is a bit of a reach, but if you take that out of the equation the only thing left is gross incompetence.  It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.  I like DonP's boy/frog analogy.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

TexasT

You suppose my wife threw out the rind on the water melon
we bought a few days ago on purpose?  She is only feeding
me the pre-trimmed fruit from a big bowl!

:D
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

DanG

Watermelon tends to give my wife a headache. ::)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

SwampDonkey

We went through the same thing a few years back. Some inexperienced (my opinion here) inspector, trying to make a name for himself, claimed he found PVYN in New Brunswick seed potatoes destined for US and Mexican market. Later it was proven to be false and there never was any proven case of the disease in the province. The government was sued by farmers. The farmers lost the case. They have the power to do as they please with unlimited resources (our taxes) to take a case into oblivion until the plantiffs' bank accounts dry up and all becomes forgotten.

The Farm Credit Corporation is another body that has worked to displace family farms with immigrants and emigrant farmers from other provinces instead of working with the ones already there. They will even buy up bank debt to run the farmer off his land and subsidize the new farmer. And again, being government they can run a case along until the lawyer fees eat up the farmer's bank account. I don't know if it's conspiracy, but it sure is one contestable set of policies and makes you wonder what is actually gained by it. ::) It's not as bad now as it was 10 years ago, don't here much about it. Even then, most farmers did not want to talk about it. There was a lot of intimidation. Had one guy in court for the FCC side. It was like watching one of those old cop shows with the guy with his feet up on the desk and laid back with the attitude this guy can't touch me and was never ordered to answer a question. Big smile on his face all the time.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

logwalker

I went to the website Roxie gave and read it. 1.4 million cases a year claimed by CDC but only 40,000 confirmed thru testing. Children more likely than adults to contract it. We are only talking about a few hundred in this instance.

How are they differentiating these cases from the other 40,000? Why are the children more likely to contract?

My opinion is that modern people are much too concerned with cleanliness and anti-bacterial soaps and cleaners and consequently are not getting exposed to commonly found bacteria. The kids are getting sick because they are supposed to. They develop resistance and are no longer at risk. The adults that get it are getting exposed for the first time.

I am leaning to DanG's conspiracy theory. I don't know how else to interpret the numbers. Joe :(

Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

DanG

I must confess that I spoke out of school in that first post.  The company I referred to is not Mexican after all.  It was started by an Italian "family" in New Jersey, and is now owned by Monsanto, who purchased it in 1997.  The founder stayed on and ran it for 2 more years before coming the CEO of Sunkist.  This past April, he became head of another produce company who claims to hold 33% of the Country's watermelons.

We are barreling headlong into a feudal system where there will only be Barons and Serfs.  The Barons will not be satisfied until they own everything.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tom

I'm a Baron.  I just can't afford to own anything.  :D

tcsmpsi

Quote from: DanG on July 04, 2008, 01:03:58 PM
I must confess that I spoke out of school in that first post.  The company I referred to is not Mexican after all.  It was started by an Italian "family" in New Jersey, and is now owned by Monsanto, who purchased it in 1997.  The founder stayed on and ran it for 2 more years before coming the CEO of Sunkist.  This past April, he became head of another produce company who claims to hold 33% of the Country's watermelons.

We are barreling headlong into a feudal system where there will only be Barons and Serfs.  The Barons will not be satisfied until they own everything.

I suppose some old families/consortiums weren't all that thrilled with that Freedom thing implemented in that 'savage land' a couple centuries or so ago.  ;)
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Don_Papenburg

If it is owned by Monsanto ,that is BAD news for American consumers.  I make it a point to stay away from Monsanto products .  They tend to be pushy and do conspire with government officials . (monsanto claims they cooperate with the gov.) However they tend to be very gestapoesk in dealing with companies that do buisnes with them.   Monsanto wants to own all the food ,seed and medication in the US and the world.  That way they can make you sick and cure you and your wallet with their medicine.   This is my opinion based on fact ,second hand info ,the media ,and info from magazine and other peiodicals . Oh and the internet.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

SwingOak

I think I've figured it out... Tomatoes in NJ are just coming into season, and I'd bet Governor Corzine is behind the whole thing in an attempt to drive up "Jersey Fresh" tomato sales. That way when people from all over drive to NJ to buy tomatoes, they will spend lots of money on toll bridges, speeding tickets, etc. too, thus helping to bail us out of our budgetary woes.

::)

zopi

Quote from: farmerdoug on July 04, 2008, 08:04:49 AM
They use to just say the flu was going around. ::)

The tomato scare is going to bankrupt alot of tomato growers.  Tomatoes are still dead in the store and resturant sales.

I wonder if we can start a scare about gasoline.  It will cause people to stop using it and drive the price down to a reasonable level for us. :D :D :D

Tomorrow on CNN! Gasoline Causes EBOLA ZAIRE!  EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!!!! lol

Sheeple are easy to stampede.

OTOH..some vegans I know of are a little less snide these days...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

zopi

Quote from: TexasTimbers on July 04, 2008, 09:06:55 AM
On the opposite end of the spectrum, a recent study widely circulated by the media says watermelon rinds will give a man a "viagra effect".

So DanG, if you want to live on the edge this July 4th, stand out in your front yard holding an aluminum rod while eating a tomato.


Better...have a watermelon beforehand and recycle the aluminum...

That's thinking Green right there.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

TexasTimbers

Barons and Serfs.

Know what ya mean. When the cupboards get barren we close shop and go serfin.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Woodcarver

Now FDA has set its sights on salsa from south of the border.  Growers in Mexico may get to share in the misery. 
Just an old dog learning new tricks.......Woodcarver

OneWithWood

DanG, I think you hit it on the head when you mentioned incompetence.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

SwampDonkey

Shellfish scare here over the weekend. Some bad muscles or similar have a neurotoxic disease, causes numbness and paralysis. They say only buy from reputable dealers, as if I go around with such a list. Lord help us.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SeeSaw

Don P,

Your analogy of Monsanto is probably really close to reality.  Scary thing indeed.  I've never seen the word Gestapoesk used before and I'm not certain that it is a proper word,   But I'll tell ya what,  I like it!!  Thanks,

SeeSaw
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, completely worn out and loudly proclaiming, WHAT A RIDE...!

DanG

Now that they have ruined thousands of farmers and packers, the FDA now says it wasn't tomatoes after all. ::)  Now they are going after jalapeno peppers and cilantro from Mexico.  Now I ask you, what sense does it make to import fruits and vegetables that are to be eaten raw from a country where you aren't supposed to drink the water? ???
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Engineer

Whoda thunkit?  Jalapenos and cilantro?  Good thing I don't eat either one of those things. 

Now I can go back to buying those nice rock-hard, semi-ripe but bruised and half-rotten ugly things they call tomatoes at the grocery store, at least until the ones in the garden are ready.

Don_Papenburg

SEESAW, I have been known to use a word or two that ain't proper.  I was trying to come up with a way to describe how that company operates .  Maybe not as bad as the gestapo but danG close.  Look in your new 2015 copy of Websters dictionary:Gestapoesk,  To act like a gestapo agent. An overly forceful ,rude , pushy ,person or company
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Don_Papenburg

DanG , if it went so serious it would be funny.  I heard that some farmers plowed under their crops.  That could have been profit that would help the economy and raise the GNP.   >:( :(
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

easymoney

in your new 2015 copy of Websters dictionary:Gestapoesk,  To act like a gestapo agent. An overly forceful ,rude , pushy ,person or company


for a minute there i thought you was describing my ex wife.

SeeSaw

I agree. That's why I like the word so much.  The description exactly describes my ex wife to the 'T'.  Now I have a word for her and others like that.  I'm thinkin this word may get some mileage and be in Websters before 2015. :D
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, completely worn out and loudly proclaiming, WHAT A RIDE...!

Don_Papenburg

 :D I have heard that about a lot of exwives, glad I don't have any ;D ;D
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

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