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Why I love woodworking

Started by Dodgy Loner, May 21, 2008, 01:49:52 PM

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Dodgy Loner

I get to turn trees like this crooked cherry log, less than 10" in diameter, dead for over a year before I sawed it up...


Into furniture like this:


It's based on a late 1800's Stickley end table with a small drawer.  The original was made of QSWO, like most A&C furniture.  But I didn't have any QSWO, so I improvised.


Here's a closeup of the angled half-blind dovetails.  I've always cut dovetails by hand, so I'm genuinely curious:  Could these be cut with a Leigh jig?


And here's a closeup of the tusk tenon that joins the stretchers:


I ended up with two end tables out of that one log.  The first one I made was based on a Pleasant Hill Shaker table with octagonal tapered legs.




The scraps that were left from the boards after I built these two tables wouldn't be enough to fill the wastebasket in my office.  And that's why I love being a woodworker :)

But I will admit, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to mill a black cherry like this one ;)

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Greg

Gorgeous. Bravo. Me too.  8)

Just curious, what type of mill did you use and how did you go about processing this log?

Thanks for sharing your creations!
Greg

metalspinner

QuoteI've always cut dovetails by hand, so I'm genuinely curious:  Could these be cut with a Leigh jig?

Most definately. :)

I really like Stickley furniture made with cherry.  Great looking table!  Especially out of the scrappy looking tree. 8)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Greg on May 21, 2008, 02:11:26 PM
Just curious, what type of mill did you use and how did you go about processing this log?

I had access to an LT40 when I worked in the wood lab at UGA.  'Course it was supposed to be used for research purposes, but I think this was an equally important task ;).

It was very easy to mill - I just clamped the log a little below center and took off 1" slices until I got down near the clamp.  I then flipped it 180 and took off more 1" slices until I was left with a 2" slab at the bottom.  All eight of the legs came from the 2" slab.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

WDH

I like the pegged tenons on the second table.  Those tables sure are fine!  You cannot buy furniture like this anywhere that I know of.  What most furniture stores offer today is pitiful.  If only people would pay what it is worth rather than paying more than it is worth for the crappy furniture store stuff......Go figure ???.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Don K

Dodgy,  I know you can't wait to get your shop finished. I have plans for one too. I hope one day I will be as talented as you are.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

TexasTimbers

 8) Excellent project and post!  8)

I love A&C and that table is a beauty.

One thing that caught my eye though, and catches it evertime is decisions to leave the depth line. FW published an article once a couple years ago on hand cut tails and the crafstman they chose for the piece also left his pencil line. I wrote a LTTE, which was respectful and articulate, but clearly presented my view that it takes away from the piece to my eye. They published it, and they also published the craftsman's response. I was not impressed with his response and I was not alone. He presented no clear reason why he leaves it. That made me think he put even less thought into it than what I at first thought.

My letter made some rounds among the online woodworking sites, with the vast majority of comments supporting my opinion that it detracts from the piece, instead of adding to it. Of course that does not make me "right" or anything of the kind. But I don't remember a single craftsman ever saying he thought it makes a piece better. It is a preference thing for sure, and is not right or wrong.

I realize many viewers may not give it a second thought. For whatever reason it just has always been a bone of contention for me. I am surely not saying it ruins your piece and I bet you'll get some folks here tell you do not listen to me as I don't have a clue, and I probably don't.  But I thought I would bring it up in case you are just doing because "you have always done it that way" which also does not make it right or wrong.

Those dovetails are wonderfully executed. They look nice and clean - except for that pencil mark! I do realize that the woodworkers who leave the line, often do so in order to make the statement that they were cut by hand. That's cool, but why not just sign and date the piece near the joint "Lovingly made by hand for Mrs. Dodgy Loner by Dodgly Loner on April 1st, 2008"  or whatever. Or maybe even just "Cut by the hand of Dodgy Loner 4/7/08." Nothing wrong with taking credit. Leaving the line is one way to do it but I think alot of lay persons don't know what it means.

I bring this up because I think it is worthy of discussion not because I don't like your work. Your work is superb. Obviously. No argument there. It's the "decision" part of leaving the line that makes me curious. Joints like that deserve to have ceneter stage and not share it with an "eyesore". Finally, you sure as heck don't have to "justify" your decision to anyone least of all me, so please don't think that's what drives my question. I am just doing my job . . . .

Sincerely, Kevin Jaynes
President; Persons Against Leaving Scribelines (PALS).  ;D
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

metalspinner

I like the mark because the factory made stuff does not have it.  If the mark raises a question from a person, that opens the door to educating them on how the piece was made.

Another piece of "tradition" that peaks my curiosity is the use of a "secondary" wood for drawer parts.  That to me is more of a distraction than tool marks left behind.  Why would a craftsperson put so much effort into building a tightfitting drawer only to reveal a lesser quality wood when it is opened.  That might go to the broader opinion of "out-of-sight-out-of-mind."  Remember, back in the day, dovetails were more of a mechanical joint than an artistic one.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Dodgy Loner

TT, I appreciate your comments and insight into my decision to leave the scribe lines on my dovetails.  I think criticism from fellow craftsmen is much more valuable than compliments from the average Joe (although I very much appreciate any compliments I receive :)).

I have a very simple and easily justifiable reason for leaving the lines: they are not pencil lines, but were cut with a slicing guage to provide a place to register my chisels when I chiseled out the waste.  This makes the dovetails easier to cut and more accurate.  The slices are so deep that the drawer would fit sloppily if I tried to plane them out.

I don't think that we share the same philosophical views on dovetailing, though.  I want my joinery to be neat and well-executed, but in my opinion, the dovetails are just there to hold the drawer front to the sides.  They are hidden 99.999% of the time and do not contibute significantly to the aesthetics of the piece.  The vast majority of period pieces do not utilize exposed dovetails, with a major exception being simple blanket chests.  I've only made one blanket chest - a reproduction of a Shaker piece - and I chose to leave the scribe lines because the original maker did the same.  I don't feel that they detract from the appearance, but to be honest, I really don't think much about it.

I don't think that the argument that it makes the joints look handcut holds much water.  You could easily scribe a line onto machine-cut dovetails if you wanted to.  The narrow pins (too narrow to be cut with a router bit) are what indicates that the joint is handcut, in my opinion.  But only a fellow woodworker would notice that.

I guess to summarize my thoughts, I would say this: I make furniture that pleases me.  I am pleased with this piece.  I think that's all that matters :).
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Dodgy Loner

MS - I usually try to maintain a traditional appearance in my reproduction furniture, so I typically use secondary woods.  The reason I chose to use cherry for the drawer in this case was so that all of the wood for the two table would come from the same tree.  I used to feel the same way that you do about secondary woods, but as I've started to incorporate more and more traditional tools and techniques into my work, I've moved more towards the "out of sight, out of mind" philosophy that the old woodworkers had.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

flip

My .02.  ::)  :-X  If you cut them by hand keep the score lines (if you use a marking guage or knife).  If you use a pencil to mark hand cut, erase or sand off (they tend to not finish well and will leave a nasty smear if rubbed on).  If'n you're using a dove tail jig, no need to have them unless you are tryin' to reproduce a piece or tryin' to fool someone.  Very nice work and nice way to orient your book matches. smiley_thumbsup

One more additional comment, I like to use regionally correct secondary woods for my projects.  Where I'm at most of the local wood work uses poplar some oak for innards and rails.  Different geos. will use different seconds. 
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Dodgy Loner

Glad you noticed the bookmatches, flip ;)!  I avoid glued up panels as much as possible, but when I have to use them I always try to find bookmatches for consistency and added interest. 

As far as the secondary woods go, I would use regionally correct species if I could, but I'm limited to whatever's in my stash at the time.  I don't have any yellow-poplar, which would be the traditional choice for my area, so my latest project (a bathroom vanity) has secondary woods of sycamore and yellow pine.  I just use any clear, straight-grained, inexpensive and easily worked wood - same as our forefathers.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Dan_Shade

secondary woods don't waste the good wood where you can't see it.

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

TexasTimbers

DL,

I know but woodworkers are supposed to be on the honor system. Woodworkers would never scribe a line after routing out some pins and tails. :D

I cannot say that I never make a piece without considering how others might view it. I probably should have your attitiude and not care at all. But that is just not me. I always look at a pice as I'm making it and trying to view it through the eyes of others even though that is not possible. One of my many flaws. ;)

Thanks for the reply. :)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

metalspinner

I need to remember that I am a very spoiled woodworker in that I have more wood that could ever be used for my personal stuff.  Living in the Smoky Mts. with just about every common species available I can use the good stuff for everything.  You sawyer types charge me the same whether it's walnut or scrappola, so cost isn't a factor.  If I were forking out the big retail bucks, my view would be quite different.

QuoteIf'n you're using a dove tail jig, no need to have them unless you are tryin' to reproduce a piece or tryin' to fool someone.

QuoteWoodworkers would never scribe a line after routing out some pins and tails.

:-X ::)... :D
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: TexasTimbers on May 22, 2008, 06:51:54 PM
I cannot say that I never make a piece without considering how others might view it. I probably should have your attitiude and not care at all. But that is just not me. I always look at a pice as I'm making it and trying to view it through the eyes of others even though that is not possible. One of my many flaws. ;)

TT, the piece of furniture in my house that garners the most praise and attention also happens to be the very first piece of furniture I built.  I made the top by gluing solid wood to carpentry-grade plywood.  The plywood was warped, so of course the whole top was warped from the moment I made it.  The top also bows in and out with the seasonal changes in humidity.  The legs and aprons are just plain gaudy, and all of the joints have pretty significant gaps in them.  All of the pieces are oversized. 

And yet, of all the furniture that I've ever built, this is the one that 95% of the people like the most.  Why?  Because when I built it, I was an average Joe, therefore I built it to appeal to the average Joe.  Now that my tastes have matured, I can barely stand to look at it, but I could never stand to part with it because of the sentimental value.  It's frustrating that most people don't see the craftsmanship in the stuff I'm building now (half of them look at the dovetails I'm cutting and ask why I didn't make the pins and tails the same size, like all the other dovetails they've seen ::)), but I've come to accept that people with no background in furniture-making will not understand why all the pieces I build now look so "plain" in comparison to my first piece.  I guess that's why it's so important to me to satisfy my own tastes first, and worry about what others will think second.


"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

TexasTimbers

I like it too. It knocks your eyes out with the pattern and contrasting colors.

I don't want to give you the impression I don't care what I think about a piece. I do try to please me first but I also consider how the piece will be judged.

If I made furniture for myself only it would all be very, very bizarre. The stuff in my head is a mix of art nouveau on Purple Microdot and avante garde on steroids.  :o

Every now and again, like a matter of years, I see a piece that reminds me of something that has floated through my head at some point and i will scribble it down on paper. Then, after I lose the paper, I have to wait another 4 or 5 years to see something to remind me of it again.  ::)

Of course  I have never built any of these outlandish things. Maybe one day . . . .

I hope you can come to liking your table again. Your first piece is not something you should ever let go. I can't even tell you what my first piece was. Pretty sad.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Woodchuck53

Your cheating on us. Is that work bench behind the log made from store bought? Just kidding, I'm a fine one to talk. I recycled before it was a common word. CV
Case 1030 w/ Ford FEL, NH 3930 w/Ford FEL, Ford 801 backhoe/loader, TMC 4000# forklift, Stihl 090G-60" bar, 039AV, and 038, Corley 52" circle saw, 15" AMT planer Corley edger, F-350 1 ton, Ford 8000, 20' deck for loader and hauling, F-800 40' bucket truck, C60 Chevy 6 yd. dump truck.

Dodgy Loner

Hehe, good observation, Woodchuck, but as always I do have an explanation ;D.  I share my shop with my brother, who's a metalworker/gearhead.  That's his bench, which he made from discarded bunk lofts that he got from the dorms at UGA.  My bench is made of winged elm that WDH sawed up for me.  The top is made of cheapo birch ply, though, so I'm not completely blameless :-X

Don't have a good picture of it, so here's the best I can do!
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

HOOF-ER

I also like the pattern of that table. Like I have said before. Most people, including myself, look at things as a whole. I built a pole barn and the owner was worried that this or that was not perfectly straight. After it is built people look at it and say nice barn. I still know that the inperfections are there, you would have to be in construction and have tools to find them. Same thing with furniture , only much easier to observe the inperfections. Most people look at the piece as what it is ( coffee table, book shelf, etc,,). Often we are too critical of what we do.
Home built swing mill, 27hp Kawasaki

WDH

"Often we are too critical of what we do."

Hoof-er,

That is why I could never make money making furniture.  It takes me too long to get things done because I am so particular about everything.  I make it as if I was my own customer  :).  The public would never see flaws that I see, but if it is flawed, it leaves me unsatisfied until I either fix it or build it better next time.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

HOOF-ER

This is a problem all builders have at some level. (I am far from the getting it perfect stage) I hate it when I am not satisfied with what I have done.  >:(
Home built swing mill, 27hp Kawasaki

Dave Shepard

Nicely done Dodgy!

I like the scribe lines. You wouldn't see them when you open the drawer anyway, only if you were looking from the side when it was open. Today, many timber framers work very hard to make sure none of their scribes show in the frame. Any of the old barns I have been in have been full of scribes, and they weren't too shy about scribing either. :D They were building a barn, DanG it, not a work of art. Although, your tables certainly warrent a rating above barn quality. ;)


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: HOOF-ER on May 23, 2008, 08:49:53 PM
I also like the pattern of that table.

I didn't mean to say that there's nothing about the table that I like, so I should have stated what I do like about that table rather than simply listing its flaws.  I do like the design of the top, but I dislike the undercarriage and the execution of the piece.  I know that I'm my harshest critic, but I still manage to be relatively happy with the pieces that I'm building now, imperfections and all :)

I appreciate all the kind words and compliments as well as the criticism.  The compliments motivate me to keep working, and the criticism motivates me to keep improving.  That's another thing I love about woodworking - I don't think you'll find a more supportive community anywhere.  Unlike most hobbies (ie, golf, basketball, cars, fishing, etc.) there's a lot more support than there is competition.  We learn from each other rather than trying to outdo one another, and in doing so, we all benefit.  It's a community that I'm proud to be a part of smiley_sun
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

getoverit

Beautiful tables guys! I have a small project to make my wife a couple of side tables for the bed. Those will get started in the next couple of weeks.

The thing that drives my passion in woodworking is making wood sing. I have truely fallen in love with making musical instruments and each one is a challenge and fresh to me, no matter how many of them I have made before.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

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