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Grinder vs. file

Started by LeeB, May 05, 2008, 01:48:31 AM

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LeeB

Are the grinders worth the cost considering the price of a file and a new chain? I 've never used a grinder, only a file. How much does the grinder take off as compared to filing? Is a grinder any faster? What are the pro's and cons?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

cuttingman423

i dont know much but i do know from my experience having my repair man sharpen with the grinder does  a much better  and lasts longer then filing . As for amount taken off it seems to be alittle more  but not much the only chain of mine i saw alot taken off was one that got beaten to death by nails that i didnt know were in the tree i was cutting up .

As for speed my service man has been doing it that long  he makes quick work with the grinder once he has it set for my chain.  Hope this helps you like i said i dont know much thats why i let the pro do the sharpening.

TexasTimbers

Lots of opinions on this. I use both. I file in the field when I did not spend time in the shop grinding chain to take spares. When you have a hundred chains to sharpen you will like become partial to a grinder.

Last month I took down a big Hackberry for my dad on one of his rental properties. I had not sharpened any loops for the saw I wanted to use on this monster and had to file it halfway through the job. I was glad I could hand file. I am not what a real logger would consider good but I can get passable results.

It's good to be able to file, and very nice to be able to grind in the shop.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Dodgy Loner

Lee, you should try one of these filing guides that Husqvarna sells. 

http://www.usa.husqvarna.com/products_product_specific_accessories_details.aspx?pid=5205

It looks simple, but it's the best 10 buck I ever spent - makes it very easy to file.  A blade sharpened with one of these will last much longer than a blade sharpened on a grinder, and there's no chance you'll overheat the teeth and ruin the temper.  I usually touch up after every other tank of gas, and it only takes a couple strokes on each tooth.  A grinder is nice for speed, but for the price, versatility and performance, these little guides can't be beat.  Even if you do end up getting a grinder, it's great to have one when you're in the field.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

LeeB

I have no problem filing freehand. As I said, I have never used a grinder, only a file. I suppose if I had a lot of chains to do I might have gotten a grinder.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

beenthere

I use the guide that Dodgy Loner mentioned, and I like it real well. By hand, without a guide, is what I did until about a year ago. Now I use the roller guide (although the pic at that link is not a good one, IMO). 

here is mine..and think it is the same thing in the link.



If I want a lot of tooth ground off, I take the chain to someone with a grinder... ;D ;D  But am sure, not all with a grinder take a lot off.. :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Dodgy Loner

I also used to file freehand with no problems, but the great thing about the roller guide is that it prevents the file from filing downward, so you can direct all of the force laterally, towards the part of the tooth that you actually want to sharpen.  I would never be without it again.  Before I learned how to file, I took my chains to my local Stihl dealer to have them sharpened.  I didn't realized until I started sharpening myself that I was supposed to be able to get more than four or five sharpenings out of a chain ::).  If you take your chains to someone with a grinder, you have to be sure you know what they're doing.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Corley5

I've got CBN wheels on my grinder and don't plan to hand file again unless it's an absolute necessity  ;)  Good wheels are the key to a good sharpening job with a grinder. 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

SwingOak

I bought one of the Husky roller file guides, and I have to say I went back to using the Oregon plate type file guide. It has angle lines scribed on it, and I think it's faster. It also keeps me from totally screwing up the hook angle, or undercutting the tooth.

I also have one of the Oregon file jigs (it's an older one made out of metal before they went to all the those plastic parts) that I use every so often to even everything out and restore a consistent angle. I file everything at 30/10/30.

I tried a round stone grinder once and it ate the stone up so quick that I went back to the file. That said, my brother has a pro model chain grinder that I'm going to be borrowing to grind a ripping chain. He says the sharpening shops here in NJ just don't have much call for, or experience, sharpening ripping chains, and he had a couple of chains for his 100" mill that were ruined by a sharpening shop. So he bought a grinder, because it takes a long time to touch up 20 feet of saw chain with a file...

SawTroll

Quote from: beenthere on May 05, 2008, 06:19:03 PM
I use the guide that Dodgy Loner mentioned, and I like it real well. By hand, without a guide, is what I did until about a year ago. Now I use the roller guide (although the pic at that link is not a good one, IMO). 

here is mine..and think it is the same think in the link.



If I want a lot of tooth ground off, I take the chain to someone with a grinder... ;D ;D  But am sure, not all with a grinder take a lot off.. :)

I also like those combo guides, mostly for the excellent raker guide part of it, and when I need to file off some, not only sharpen.
Final sharpening is free-hand.
Information collector.

Al_Smith

 It's properly called a chain,not a blade .

I suppose those roller giudes are just fine but some chain sharpens at a 10 degree up angle .

A good filer can do just as well as a grinder,it just takes practice at it .Unless the chain has been dulled and banged up from hitting the dirt,rocks etc. it takes about 5 minutes to dress one out in the woods .[20 inch ]

The little Dremel type rotary grinders have their place.The are especially handy to repair a chain that has been rocked out .

Now as far as how many times can you resharpen a chain,a lot .They will cut and cut good as long as the entire cutting tooth is intact . Now a lot of dealers may only get about 6 -6 sharpenings when using a grinder .Keep in mind those folks sell chain also .

Never made much sense to me to pay a dealer 4 bucks to grind a chain when you can buy a new loop for around 12 . After about 3 -4 grindings you have the price of the chain invested . Then again I suppose an old dog like me after 40 some odd years of fooling with those noisey things might get a little set in ones ways,or so they say . ;D

Max sawdust

I am with Beenthere and Dodgy Loner.  Husky file guides are real easy to use.  Have been using them for 4 years and pleased with the results.  Does not mean you should not learn to sharpen freehand to fully understand the dynamics of the chain tooth ;)
If new to sharpening I suggest the learning to sharpen with a file before getting a "dremel" type grinder.  IMO unless  you sharpen for other people you do not need a wheel type bench grinder either.  Point is to sharpen often in the field.
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Lurcherman on May 05, 2008, 11:56:03 PM
I bought one of the Husky roller file guides, and I have to say I went back to using the Oregon plate type file guide. It has angle lines scribed on it, and I think it's faster. It also keeps me from totally screwing up the hook angle, or undercutting the tooth.

I use Stihl chains, and they have the proper angle already scribed onto the tooth.  I find it very helpful, and I never considered that other brands might not have this feature.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

mike_van

I've been using  an Efco grinder for 10+ years, I use the lightest pass on a tooth that will get them all sharp. Some chains of mine I've done 50 times.  Taking a heavy cut when grinding just wastes teeth, also turns them all blue. A lot like bandmill blades, lighter is better! 
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

dancan

i have and use both , files in the field and the grinder at the shop , both have their place but would be hard to justify the price tag for home use .
i got lucky and found my techomec used but like new for 60.00$$  :)

ARKANSAWYER


  Use both.  I grind when a hand hits rocks with the chain.  Since I have 10 or so chains for each saw and bar there are plenty in stock.  I can put on a chain and touch it up when dull and wear it out most of the time and never take it off the saw.  Hands can buck logs and go through 4 chains a days sometimes.  Since they are hitting rocks it would take for ever to file them down.  Just take them to the grinder  and fix them.
  Millers in town grinds them.  They are pretty heavy when they do it so 4 or 5 trips is all a chain will take.  They grind of Thursdays so you can drop off on Wednesday and pick up on Friday.
ARKANSAWYER

dancan

was cleaning a cottage lot on a steep incline yesterday , filed the chain while fueling up and during breaks , all was good till the hidden rocks popped out from under the moss  :( now i have three chains for the grinder  :).

bandmiller2

Back in 1976 I bought a stihl 031 and a windsor grinder[many names made in Italy 5" stone] I still have boath and they have paid for themselves many times.When a feller learns to keep the chain out of the dirt a grinder can just kiss the tooth and remove very little.The big advantage for a bench grinder is you take the chain off and metal filings don't get in the bar and chain,also you can clean saw and bar and readjust chain.After grinding I wash and oil chain.I'am a cheap yankee but the best tools are cheaper in the long run.Couple of years ago bought a silvey square chain grinder [price of a good saw]it is pure pleasure to use and will outlast me.I do file sometimes and have no gripe with thems that do.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ihookem

I bought a grinder. It is made in Italy and it is a Jolly something. I can take off 1/64 inch and the chain is sharp as can be when I am done, and take a lot less time. It was $315 after tax and that was is a lot for my needs. However, I needed to take in 6 loops anyway and that would have been $55 so now I am only out about $260. I cant believe it has been 5 yrs since I have posted on this sight. Later guys.

ladylake

 Grinder only take off enough to get the chain sharp when used right, same as a file.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

axeman2021

Reading in another chainsaw forum this morning where someone paid $1,300+tax and shipping for a Simington 451 C Square Chise grinder with stand.

I read in this forum where a member was paying $4 bucks at his dealer for a machine sharpening, my dealer wanted $10 but after talking with him he said it's $10 if we have to remove chain from the saw you take it off i will do it for $4.

So since i don't have hundreds of chains to deal with and new chains run from $15 to $25 for my saws, and just getting into doing some hand filing, and reading what other forum members are posting about their take and results of hand filing think i will have to decide if i can get by with a few hand sharping and paying $4 dollars for my dealer to do it.

Skeans1

Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 09:53:21 AM
Reading in another chainsaw forum this morning where someone paid $1,300+tax and shipping for a Simington 451 C Square Chise grinder with stand.

I read in this forum where a member was paying $4 bucks at his dealer for a machine sharpening, my dealer wanted $10 but after talking with him he said it's $10 if we have to remove chain from the saw you take it off i will do it for $4.

So since i don't have hundreds of chains to deal with and new chains run from $15 to $25 for my saws, and just getting into doing some hand filing, and reading what other forum members are posting about their take and results of hand filing think i will have to decide if i can get by with a few hand sharping and paying $4 dollars for my dealer to do it.
Remember a Simington or a Silvey are normally for square chisel chain that's different grinder completely from a round chisel chain grinder.

axeman2021

Quote from: Skeans1 on March 21, 2021, 11:35:07 AM
Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 09:53:21 AM
Reading in another chainsaw forum this morning where someone paid $1,300+tax and shipping for a Simington 451 C Square Chise grinder with stand.

I read in this forum where a member was paying $4 bucks at his dealer for a machine sharpening, my dealer wanted $10 but after talking with him he said it's $10 if we have to remove chain from the saw you take it off i will do it for $4.

So since i don't have hundreds of chains to deal with and new chains run from $15 to $25 for my saws, and just getting into doing some hand filing, and reading what other forum members are posting about their take and results of hand filing think i will have to decide if i can get by with a few hand sharping and paying $4 dollars for my dealer to do it.
Remember a Simington or a Silvey are normally for square chisel chain that's different grinder completely from a round chisel chain grinder.
Thank you for the information i should have used maybe the Oregon 410 at around $190 dollars, still it's money spent for a sharping system more then a simple hand filing of our chains.
I am open to looking at other ways to sharpen my chains, i have seen this Timberline sharping jig selling for around $110 dollars still a lot more then what i have in my 2&1 sharpner that has worked pretty well so far but i am guessing not as well as a real shop sharping or using the Oregon sharpner.
This is the really good thing about this forum, lots of people who have used many different sharping systems letting us know what they have found good and bad about them.

barbender

For round filing, the 2n1 sharpener works great👍
Too many irons in the fire

axeman2021

Quote from: barbender on March 21, 2021, 01:00:19 PM
For round filing, the 2n1 sharpener works great👍
Right now it's about all i can afford i am still waiting for the $1,400 everyone is already getting.

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