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Wood Theif Mess? update

Started by grassy, April 27, 2008, 12:07:50 PM

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grassy

Hi everyone, I bet you are glad to see me back? I am the girl with the theif that is swindling my sick father out of 30 cords of wood. (cindy). I have found out alot since i posted my horrible story.
   The first thing i have found is that it is illegall to swindle wood from a sick vulnerable or disabled person. I found alot on that on the SC website. They had a great site.
    I saw two lawyers who say I have a great case of elderly exploitation. But what to do with it now?
     As a co owner of the property I have a right to chain off the wood. I also have rights to HALF the wood. And then there is some question on whether i should have been told as co owner.
      We spoke to a forest ranger breifly and he is very interested in this fellow, and we might call him back also.
       But the biggy is this..... I have chained off the wood entrance. I used a big red chain, no tresspassing signs, and keep out etc. WILL the THEIF GO THRU the CHAIN?????? I have a feeling the theif will try to hire someone with a truck and a crane to move the wood fast. The wood sits there, tree length, with all the tops on it. It is a big mess. And would the logger with the truck and crane, go thru the chain? It is going to be very intersting to see how it plays out.
   What is the theif going to do? sue me? it's my land. he wont, then he would be exposed. ANY thoughts? cindy
       
   

isawlogs


Grassy , its called trespassing ... no matter who goes through , if he or she dont have permission its a legal case , if wood leaves its theff. Clear as mud .  ;D
I sure hope you get the best of this mess .
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

grassy

I know?????? But my problem is, the old man says he can, and i say enough is enough. So I am going to wing it. See how greedy this guy is? It'll be interesting to say the least. cindy

Tom

Tell your daddy that you talked with a bunch of old guys on the internet that stopped drinking their coffee long enough to tell you "get your Daddy to sit back and go get a lawyer to get this stuff stopped."

It's still a job for a lawyer, with the backing of foresters and the Forest Ranger you mentioned.

More is at stake than a few trees, it's inheritance, and fairness of one human toward another.   Stay with it and hope it makes the local paper so that others learn to stand up for themselves too.  :)

flip

P O A.  It is your best bet if it goes to the courts.  Have you talked to your thief and told him your intentions?  That may help put the brakes on things if he knows your serious.  Exploitation of the elderly is a bunch of scrap, wether it be wood, money, land, personal property whatever.  There should be laws in place that end with "the use of a rope" in the wording. >:(
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rebocardo

Get a lawyer and have him send a registered letter to the party involved saying to stay off the property and post no trespassing signs all over the place and take a picture of them. Then have the lawyer send a letter to all the local mills within 100 miles and tell them not to accept any of the disputed wood from your property.


flip

I would even go one better as to put up some sort of game camera in case he comes for the trees when no one is looking, catch 'em in the act.  No better proof than a picture of a crime in progress ;)
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

grassy

THANKS!!!! I like all your ideas guys!!! I like the camera one.... I put up no tresspassing signs etc, and a big red chain. Lots of pictures of everything. The theif does know I am mad. He still wont back off. He took $20,000  worth of every piece of expensive machinery my father had. He took chainsaws, snowblowers, air compressors, grills tools, lathes, saws,cameras, EVERYTHING. He even had a bag of MARBLES put aside to steal. He totally wiped out the entire contents of the celler and the garage. That wasnt enough, he started chopping down the trees. After he chopped down 30 cords, he announced he WAS taking 4 more cord of nice dry firewood from the celler, and that day, drove off in my fathers car , went on vacation. Thats when i blew my lid! I piled that wood and its there for an emergency(winter). I put signs on that wood. Hands off theif, looter, etc  because I can not be at the house every minute. They wait for me to leave and they back up, take anything they want. So anyway, what I am running into is unless i go thru the courts and get my father declared incompetent, I have to handle it myself sort of. My father is so brainwashed by this guy, its ridiculous. All the neighbors know about it. Everyone is watching out for me, but its basically me against this creep. So I would never get my father to agree to any POA etc. He is really really sick. 14 medicines, attached to oxygen, almost dead and i dont think there is time? He has enough brains left to be mad at me for coming between him and this creep, but not with it enough to realise he has been HAD.It is a very sticky situation.  I am on the deed, as a joint tenant and the most I could get from a lawyer was its half my wood, and I have the right to chain it off. But my father has the right to let him on the property  also.  I want to hang this guy. He has now latched on to another old man that just had a pacemaker put in! But anyway i wonder if he will go thru the chain? The roads are posted until may 15th. After that, the wood is in danger. cindy

LeeB

Why can you only post till May 15?
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stonebroke

I think that means the roads are posted for a lower load limit until the frost is totally out of the ground so the trucks don't tear up the roads.

Stonebroke

grassy

Thats right. The frost in the ground has to be gone or the weight of the trucks will make a mess of the roads. We are in a very cold climate. Our roads are a mess anyway. Someone could go in now tho, and not even get noticed. Lots of rural roads, no one is looking. The snow just melted away a week ago.  If the temperature is below 32 degrees, you can haul on the posted roads. Its that cold every morning.  BRRRRRRRR  cindy

grassy

One more thought too. Now ,here we have an old man dying.... This theif fellow getting 30 cords of firewood out. The TOPS WILL be left, all the bushy parts of the trees? Do you think this guy is going to clean up all the brush? I would bet NO?  I will be responsible for that mess. And in the past when a logger came into the land, they selectively cut out trees, and the tops went with the tree. So there wasnt a mess left. This fellow has his name on the paperwork as the AGENT. Can an agent give himself wood? I thought the agent was supposed to represent the landowner. He's a scoundrel. Do you think he would clean up the tops or leave em????? cindy

SwampDonkey

Sounds like your up in Bathurst. The ground here is thawed, but there is snow in the woods and patches in the fields. But I looked at some of the potato fields here and have they ever dried out quick. Another week and I bet they will be scratching ground here. I'll be cutting bushes (thinning) in a couple weeks.  ;D


The tree tops will make good fertilizer for the woods.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

grassy

I'm in MAINE. The central part of Maine. Grass isnt even green. We had a record snow. Like 158 inches of snow. Worst winter since like 1960. I have never seen a winter this bad. It was something to see. They say we lost 15% of the deer herds. And all the wild turkeys seem to be gone too. Wild turkeys were taking over the state. Free range turkey?YUM YUM !!!stupid things. cindy

SwampDonkey

It was a record year for snowfall, that is for sure. But, I remember a few bad ones in the 70's. According to Caribou the last record was in the mid 70's up this way.  We as kids could reach the hydro wires by standing on the wind driven snow. We never actually touched the wires as we were reminded not to do such things, but still I have seen more snow. My grandfather had camps on Serpentine Lake, we have pictures with the snow depth up to the eves and them shoving snow off the roofs. It didn't have anywhere to drop off to, that was in the 60's.  :D

I live 50 minutes south of Caribou, next to Bridgewater, Maine. But, I'm over in New Brunswick. Mars Hill is almost all bare now, I can still see a few patches.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

flip

I'm just thinking out loud here.  There is no permission slip or contract dad signed to let numb-skull take out any wood, right?  The wood has been cut and drug out and is still on your jointly owned property.  Marshmello roast ???  

I don't know how this works declaring a person incompetent but in this case it may be the best situation.  I don't know if it's possible to make it retroactive to where you could file theft charges for the things already taken but it's worth a shot.

If I was in your shoes and had the time I would buy a hammer and about 25 pounds of 16 penny nailes and have at the wood pile :-X  Yes, I can be a spiteful person :)
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

grassy

Swampdon. OH WOW! you are by Mars hill? I am by Greenville. Us too!! we had the snow shoveled and the dog went right from that on to the top of the roof! Dog loved it! I didnt know you were my neighbor? Howdy neighbor! cindy

grassy

Flip? He did sign papers. The theif flashed them at my father and he signed them. Theif acting as the agent. They posted the harvest notification papers on the tree. Like they were supposed to for the forest rangers. I guess they come around and check wood harvests. THEN more papers came, that they had to fill out and send in to the state, which were two months late. Those asked things like what types of trees were cut, was the wood sold, was it given away????? etc etc. which the theif filled out yet had the logger sign? looking into that a bit.(logger is ok guy) so as far as filing goverment paperwork, they did that.I guess you have to if its 30 cords.legally? i dont know? ethically a scoundrel seeing $$$$$$$$
    HUM I LOVE THE NAILS!!!!!! NAILS????? hum i have to think about that.  NAILS NAILS NAILS. I'll sound just like our woodpecker!!!  when we were hammering the chain, a woodpecker answered!!!!LOL

bull

Hey grassy, where abouts by greenville, I have a camp on the Elliotsville road in Monson...

grassy

hello Bull welcome to the circus, this is dave, cindy just left to go take care of her father, and see if anyone has spotted the chain yet, we are sure to hear about it, actually i live in monson, where is your camp, i fish monson pond , ice should be out this week, so i wont be around, just kidding, have to man the circus, so to speak, all hell could be breaking out soon around her house

bull

Hi Dave, We are up past Rick Kelly's on the left before the A frame and Frost heave farm

bigtreesinwa

Quote from: grassy on April 27, 2008, 12:07:50 PM
     As a co owner of the property I have a right to chain off the wood. I also have rights to HALF the wood. And then there is some question on whether i should have been told as co owner.

Cindy, I feel very badly for you and the whole situation. It's uncomfortable for everyone and it's terrible that a person would take advantage of an older man with questionable contempancy.

However, like someone mentioned a long time ago, this really isn't the right place or forum to help you with it. Your father signed papers saying it was ok to harvest the wood. Whether he is of sound mind to make that decision is not something we can help you with. Your father signed papers giving the woodcutter permission to cut the wood. The woodcutter (or his agent) can be on the property, and if he has an agreement, the woodcutter can harvest and remove wood according to the agreement. In order to stop it, you need to go to a court and have the agreement nullified by saying your father was mentally unfit to sign a contract. It does not sound like your father will agree with that - and if so, you will first need to establish that he is not able to care for himself, and then void the contracts. That will take a huge effort on your part and not something we can help you with.

As far as the timber rights, this is a very sticky issue. I don't think it is as simple as having rights to 1/2 of the stacked firewood that you have chained off. I think it is much, much more complicated than that and you need to have an attorney (not us) review how your deed reads on the property and the rights that you have in your deed. Not seeing it, I cannot speculate what your rights are.

By chaining off the wood, you're now placing your father in a breach of contract and the wood cutter can file a lawsuit against you and your father since he spent time, effort, and money cutting wood and now you have reneged on the contract and are refusing to allow him to remove it. He can send you a bill for his time and you MAY HAVE TO PAY HIM for the cost of felling, cutting, and stacking the wood.

By the way, 30 cord of firewood is a lot of firewood. How sure are you of that estimate? A cord is 4' tall by 4' deep by 8' long. 30 cord would be 4' tall by 4' deep by 240' long- a very large pile.

Again - I sympahthize with you but want to caution you to go through the right channels. Proving incomptence and then nullifying the contract is the proper and legal way of doing it and a judge should be able to place a temporary injunction on removal of the wood very easily. Then he would be in contempt of court to remove it. If you established incompetence, you could possibly recover some of the other things you claim he stole.

grassy

 hello bull, well, neigbors, that is good, wow, small world, around monson,  i told cindy, and she likes it, she will be on here tomorrow, i am sure, i know your place, almost, i think you know someone  else ,i know, i know rick,  how often do you make it up here?? dave and cindy

timberfaller390

Cindy, Bigtrees makes a very good point about the chain possibly being a breech of contract on your part. You need to find out exactly what the contract says and HIRE a lawyer NOT just talk to one. A friend of mine was in a dispute with relaitves over jointly owned land. His cousin put up a gate and refused to give my friend a key. He hired a lawyer and went to court and won his case, that is where this matter needs to be handled. Most  of us here are loggers,farmers and sawmillers not lawyers so we can only offer opinions not legal advice. Now for your questions "Will he go through the chain?" If this guy is as low down as you say he is he will have no problem cutting your chain and making himself at home period. I have the same problem with a farm I haved leased about an hour from my home farm. Fourwheelers routinly cut chains, fences and pull down gates. As long as no one is watching they won't think twice about it. If your father signed a legally binding contract and you can't prove he is not capable of making those decisions you may not be able to do anything about it. Are you a joint owner of the land as in you own half the property or do you own a portion of it example: you own the north 10 acres and your father owns the south 10 acres. If that is the case you may not have any say in the matter. As for his personal belongings he can do with them as he wishes whether it be give them to this creep or throw them out. To me it sure sounds like you are in a mess and legal action looks to be your only hope. If it were me I would probably take the shotgun and handle the problem but I want to discurage that as much as possible you don't want to do anything that would hurt you in court. It seems to me that this guy has covered himself very well and in the eyes of the law the wood belongs to him unless you can get a judge to rule otherwise at least thats how it seems to me,doing anything to the trees like burning them or filling them with nails could entitle him to damages if he were to push the issue.  Getting the local forester involved was a good move as he will know more about your local/state timber laws than we will. I hope everything works out in your favor.
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bigtreesinwa

I own a forested parcel of land jointly with my father. It's considered a Tenancy-in-common, with me owning 15% and him 85%. Before signing the deed and doing the transfer, I spent a lot of time researching ownership issues and that's my experience with this. To say the least, it's complicated.

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