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All electric car - model 60/60?

Started by Bibbyman, April 27, 2008, 08:50:58 AM

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Bibbyman

All electric car - model 60/60?

Again I'm being lazy.  I looked over tall the topic titles and didn't find anything like my question so I just started a new topic.

Mary and I were talking over all the alternative fuel, multi fuel, hybrid gas/electric, etc. cars and I made the comment..... "Why don't they just drop all this hybrid stuff and build an affordable, usable electric only car?" 

We went on to talk about it.  Instead of being something that would replace the PU and SUV and whatever else you owned,  it would just be a basic, short run alternative vehicle.  A basic "grocery getter".

I'm thinking something the size of a PT Cruiser or maybe a Mini Cooper that could hit 60mph for a range of say 60 miles. 

I'm thinking it would come with recharging options like solar panels or wind generator where a user could recharge the batteries in say one day. Or it could be plugged into the gird. 

I'm thinking it should be available in some bare bones utility model at say $5,000 new.   Basically an upscale golf cart.

Is there anything out there like this?  Is there anyone working on one?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Fla._Deadheader


All new components, Batteries motor, and motor control system would cost that much or more. Lots of Backyarders building them, though.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Gary_C

From what I know, the problem with battery only powered cars is the batteries. The old lead-acid batteries that have been the standard for years are so bulky and heavy they would have required a truck chassis to haul them around and their life was not good on those high discharge/recharge cycles. I know they have greatly improved battery technology but I suspect the energy storage problem is still holding back the all electric car.

The other problem facing battery powered vehicles is shown by the electric forklifts. Battery maintenance is so important to battery powered forklifts and the battery chargers are very heavy duty 3 phase units to produce the currents to recharge those batteries. And the battery powered forklifts do not create a big problem if they run out of juice as they are confined to a small area and can be either towed back to the charger station or a fresh battery can be brought to the dead forklift. Also the best battery life can be obtained by rotating batteries so as to allow a cool down or rest period after use. while that is not a problem for light duty cars, the rest time is not guaranteed and could create unsatisfied owners.

I know that hydrogen storage is one of the problems still facing the fuel cell vehicle.

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Kevin_H.

Bombardier made something like that a couple of years ago, I think the top speed was something like 25 mph, batteries again was the down fall.


http://www.greencar.com/features/bombardier-nv/?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=ssp&utm_campaign=yssp_features
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Dave Shepard

The weight was one of the problems we faced when we built our electric truck. I don't remember how many batteries there were, but the truck, a gutted S-10, weighed over 4,000 pounds. We later converted it to a propane powered hybrid, raced it in the Tour de Sol, and kicked butt! We were entry #96 Tour de Sol

I have been a big fan of using an electric as a vehicle in addition to the main family vehicle. I see a lot of families that have two big SUV's and one or both parents commuting. If one could use an electric for commuting and errands, and try to drive the SUV as little as possible, I think it could make a big difference, someone might have to put their ego away though. ::)


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Tom

I just don't understand why they don't just use levitation.  It would be so simple.   Just push a button and go up, and push a stick in the direction you wanted to go.  

I think I'll just sit here and wait for a levitation car  :)

Mooseherder

PBS had a special on last nights Nova.
We are a few years away.  You can view the segments here.
Carbon Fiber is the one of the answers.  He had the host pick up the side frame of the car.  It only weighed a couple pounds but is stronger than metal.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/program.html

beenthere

Quote from: Mooseherder on April 27, 2008, 11:07:36 AM
...............Carbon Fiber is the one of the answers.  He had the host pick up the side frame of the car.  It only weighed a couple pounds but is stronger than metal.
...............

Hang tight in a wind storm, or when a semi catches up with ya.... 8) 8)  ....or maybe that is the "levitation" that Tom is waiting for... :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Mooseherder

Quote from: beenthere on April 27, 2008, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: Mooseherder on April 27, 2008, 11:07:36 AM
...............Carbon Fiber is the one of the answers.  He had the host pick up the side frame of the car.  It only weighed a couple pounds but is stronger than metal.
...............

Hang tight in a wind storm, or when a semi catches up with ya.... 8) 8)  ....or maybe that is the "levitation" that Tom is waiting for... :)

There is always a trade off eh? :D

Paul_H

Quote from: Tom on April 27, 2008, 11:02:50 AM
I think I'll just sit here and wait for a levitation car  :)


Tom,
I wouldn't mind a leviathan car too but with the price of gas these days,I think they've gone the way of the dinosaurs.

See monster below..






Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Bibbyman

What about the new lithium batteries?

They are building crossover electric and engine cars - how could that be economical when you've got to support two power systems?

As we were out sawing, I got to thinking that Wal-Mart is missing a great market opportunity.  They could have these cars built in China or India where they don't care about pollution laws and market them here at Wal-Mart.  Then they could have parking spaces at their store locations with re-charge stations.  A customer could park, plug in and run a credit card through the vending machine and then go shopping. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Bibbyman

Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Fla._Deadheader


Biggest problem is, producing the new batteries is NOT environmentally sound. LOTS of bad things go into the ground or air.

  Somewhere, I saw a photo of a battery producing plant in Canuckistan, that looked like a moon scape. Everything dead over several hundred acres.  :o :o

  Also, wait till you have to replace those batteries.  :o :o :o  Sticker shock will bite ya BIG time.  ::) ::) ::)

  Storage of energy is NOT the way to go. Educating those that want alternatives IS the smart thing to do. Don't expect Govt. or Corps, or Oil to help save energy.  ::) ::)

  Driven sensibly, I would bet that Caddy PaulH posted, got close to 20 MPG in it's day, even though it weighed 5000+ pounds.

  New engines are needed, but, as soon as someone comes up with one, it's bought out and never makes the Market  ::) ::) ??? ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Furby

Quote from: Bibbyman on April 27, 2008, 12:58:56 PM
They are building crossover electric and engine cars - how could that be economical when you've got to support two power systems?

In the case of my Mom's Prius, the batteries start the car moving and run it until torque requirements reach a certain point OR the batery level drops to a certain point.
Then the gas engine kicks in either to assis the electric or go to straight gas and also recharge the battery.
The battery level is always changing, but it's programmed so that the gas engine doesn't allow the battery level to get too low, as that would add to the wear and tear on the battery.
There are savings there, they are small but add up over time.
The gas engine is smaller than a regular car engine, lighter weight and less material in it.
There isn't a huge bank of batteries like a straight electric vehicle would require.
While they are a little more complexed than a standard car, a large part of the system is in the computer.



I've been trying to find the $ to convert a car I have in the garage for several years now.
I keep getting closer, but not close enough.
If I could get something together that would do at least 55 mph and have a range of 50+ miles on a charge with gas engine back up to keep from getting stranded, I would be able to cover roughly 90+ % of my current vehicle useage.

Grawulf

We have a dealership for Zencar and Zaptruck in our area - haven't seen any on the road yet but they must be moving them pretty quickly. Lots full at the beginning of the month and pretty much empty by the end......Zaptrucks look like something out of the Mr Bean series......     http://www.zapworld.com/automotive-sales

Bibbyman

The ZAP truck looks interesting.  It's about half the range and half the top speed I'd want and at double the price I was thinking.  But it's something.  Is it street legal? 

We have some little gas engine trucks sold around here that look like that but are sold off road use only.  My brother-in-law bought one at a yard sale!  He uses it around the farm.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Grawulf

Bibby
Yea - they're legal - just got legalized in Canukistan too so you can travel across the border and plug in to da nearest hydrodam......25 miles doesn't seem like much, does it.
Don't think I'd want to go even 40 mph on their three-wheeler.  :o

Tom

QuoteSee monster below..

To quote....er......paraphrase Crocodile Dundee, "now, that's a car".  ;D

Yep, Deadheader, before the electronic technicians got hold of auto engines, they generally got around 16-20 MPG and protected you from impact too, even without safety belts and air bags.   'Course we didn't put the miles on them that we put on a car today and a head-on could still ruin your day. :D

LeeB

How old is that picture Paul? Looks like the car in the backgroung is prettyolg too and I haven't seen a Shakey's Pizza in a good long while.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Paul_H

I'm not sure Lee,I just borrowed it but I thought the same thing when I saw Shakey's.I think I was only 12 or younger the last time I ate at one.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

beenthere

Look for one near you...there is one in West Allis, WI

http://www.shakeys.com/HOME/tabid/54/Default.aspx

They make great pizza...least I like it. :) :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Kcwoodbutcher

GM made the EV-1 starting in the late nineties into the early 2000's. It seemed to work fine, had good speed and close to a 100 mile range. There was a decent demand for it and initially they marketed it aggressively.  It started with lead acid batteries but was going to be upgraded with lithium ion ones. All the sudden they yanked it from the market and crushed them all. ( they actually never sold any they were all leased ). People were more than willing to buy them but GM would not allow it.  This all came about because California mandated that a certain amount cars sold in the state had to be all electric.  Well the lobbyist played hell with the law, sued the state and eventually won ( guess who they worked for? ). GM shelved they project and eventually sold the technology to guess who ?-- Texaco
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

Gary_C

Quote from: Kcwoodbutcher on April 28, 2008, 12:14:13 AM
GM made the EV-1 starting in the late nineties into the early 2000's.  GM shelved they project and eventually sold the technology to guess who ?-- Texaco

GM's motives and dedication were certainly questioned in the EV-1 vehicle project, but they officially ended the project in 2003, while Texaco was bought out and merged with Chevron back in 2001.

According to GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner, the worst decision of his tenure at GM was "axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right resources into hybrids. If we could turn back the hands of time, we could have had the Chevy Volt 10 years earlier."
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

StorminN

Bibbyman,

All-electric cars do exist, but not for $5,000 new... as Deadheader said, the electric components alone cost at least that much or more... and that's with old technology lead-acid batteries. It's true that the batteries are the most limiting factor, but with today's lithium batteries, a car can easily be built with the range and power you spec... the problem is the PRICE of those lithium batteries. You know how much they want for replacement lithium batteries for your cordless drill ($90?), now picture trying to buy enough batteries to move a car!

We had all-electric cars here in the US over 10 years ago (actually, there were some 100 years ago, but let's skip those). Kcwoodbutcher mentioned the GM EV1... the original EV1's had lead acid batteries, later ones had NiMh batteries. As he also mentioned, GM did not sell, but leased those cars... and when California repealed the zero-emission CARB standard, GM let the leases run out, took the EV1's back and crushed almost all of them. You should check out the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car", it does a decent job of telling that story and more.

There were other all-electric cars 10 years ago... Ford made a Ranger EV, same chassis as a normal Ranger pickup, but all-electric drivetrain. The NiMh version did about 65 miles at 65 mph. Most of these trucks were leased and recalled, like the GM EV1. GM did an S10 pickup EV, the NiMh version had about a 90 mile range.

The Toyota RAV4EV was a great EV. The RAV4EV had NiMh batteries, a 100 mile range, and went 75 mph. There are still some of these around. At the end of their leases, Toyota sold them to the people who wanted to buy them, and Toyota continues to sell parts for the cars. There are two that I know of in Washington state, and one is owned by a man in my town. They are rare and very sought after now, I think new they were about $30k and now used ones go for twice that. Just replacing the battery pack would set you back about $25k.  :o  The  RAV4EV Wikipedia page has some info on the NiMh batteries and the problems with the Texaco patents.

I think we're going to see a whole slew of new cars in the next couple of years. Some will be the NEV's (Neighborhood Electric Vehicles, which I think are limited to 35mph) and others will be full-speed cars. I've started to see a few of the Zenn cars around here... one of the mail ladies in my town delivers the mail in one, and I've counted about five in the area. People have already started talking about the Think car, too... 110 mile range and 65mph, but "under $25k". Sounds steep to me, but maybe it won't look so bad when gas is $6.50 a gallon. At least it's not the $100k that they are charging for the Tesla... one heck of a car, though...

-N.

Happiness... is a sharp saw.

ellmoe

   Back in about 1986 I bought a Ford Tempo diesel. It had a little 3 cylinder diesel engine. I consistantly got 45+mpg. (I believe they put the same engine in the Ford Ranger PUP back then.) The car was not one for acceleration. However, if I was'nt careful on the Interstate I would find myself cruising along at 85mph without knowing I had been accelerating. It would just creep up in speed. The tank was 15 gal, almost 700 miles per tank. I was doing alot of driving then and the car "made" its monthly payment. The engine exhaust appeared to be no more noxious than a gas car. With that mileage I think the pollution per mile would be similar to a gas car. I believe the market killed that car. When I tried to sell it I took a beating. No one wanted a diesel car. People still remembered those big gas engines that GM converted to diesel. With their record of unreliability, diesel cars of any kind were not desireable. If the government allow it I bet they could sell a ton of them now.

Mark

   
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

StorminN

Ok Bibby,

Here's a company that will convert a PT cruiser to all-electric for you... they are based in North carolina... it's not $5,000 though...  :-\ :-\
MSN article
Hybrid Technologies web site

-N.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

ElectricAl

Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

Toolman

Talking about expensive components. My wife recently purchased a Honda civic hybrid. Nice little car. good ride, excellent accelation and averaging 45-55 mpg. However, the price to replace the batteries is $7,000.00 !!! No kidding. There is an 8 yr warranty on batteries. The vehicle cost $22,500.00 new. Maybe prices will eventually come down. This is still relatively new technology. Bottom line is that batteries are'nt cheap.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have" (Thomas Jefferson)

Toolman

ElectricAL,

Thanks for sharing that video. I'd love to have that golf cart. Perfect for those short trips.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have" (Thomas Jefferson)

SwingOak

I want one!

http://www.teslamotors.com/

Take some time & look through the website. Interesting stuff...


ElectricAl

Many of you know Linda and I really like electric powered machines. Sawmill, Edger, Forklift, and even a Stihl chainsaw.

Well, a while back I was looking for some basic transportation for around our 7 acre complex.
I looked at the Electric John Deere Gator. DanG that's was too much money. Then I looked at a couple of electric golf carts. They were priced a lot more reasonable, but in door storage would be an issue during rain days.

Well, one evening I typed in "Electric" on EBay then added within 100 miles.  What popped up seemed like a nice eco-friendly cruiser.

It's kind of a Mini  Mini-Cooper.


Go to the next page to check out our new to us, Electric Mini  Mini-Cooper.
Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

ElectricAl

This sporty number is powered by a Deep Cycle Interstate Battery and a whopping 1.5HP DC motor  ;D

Top speed is 15 MPH







Linda is "Employee of the year" , so she gets to park on the porch in front of the french doors.

She has been "Employee of the year" for 15 years running ;)
Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

pigman

 I am sure that high seater works fine in flat Iowa. In hilly Kentucky I would have to lower the seat to keep from turning over. ;D
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Brucer

Quote from: Paul_H on April 27, 2008, 12:49:31 PM

See monster below..


Down on the corner, up on the avenue,
People are pointin', calling out after you.
Hands on their hips, their eyes geting wider
They can't believe the thing that yer drivin'

28 feet from bumper to bumper
The last of the sweet old time gas guzzlers
Hard to drive, hard-er to park
But when you do somebody remarks
That's a mighty big car ...
That's a mighty big car ....
That's a mighty big car

From Mighty Big Car
by Fred Eaglesmith 1999

;D
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Toolman

ElectricAL,

Looks like a barstool for the handicapped. Yuengling Lager please!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have" (Thomas Jefferson)

Furby

 :D :D :D :D :D :D at Al and Linda!
Cool! 8)

ellmoe

  Al,

   Nice wheels, and logs , too!

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Dave Shepard

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

ElectricAl

Pigman,

Linda thinks the seat is plenty high too.  However it adds a level of skill to navigate the cornors without getting on two wheels.



Brucer,

28 foot is a big old sled.




Toolman,

It is actually a factory built "Bar Stool Racer"  They were quite popular in the late 80's and early 90's around here.  But they turned out to be a big liability risk for the bar owners. Apparently drinking and racing was causing too many law suits.




Furby,

The seller had 2 more up for grabs. An orange one and red one.   We paid $200. 

By the way, it does have brakes.




Mark,

This is the closest thing to my old Hot Rod.  It sure is fun.



Dave,

It will carry the front wheels if the belt is tight.
Although I purposely leave the belt just a touch loose to keep from launching to hard.
Now it's like an old 2 speed "Power Slide".
Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

Bibbyman

Quote from: ElectricAl on May 13, 2008, 08:58:57 PM
This sporty number is powered by a Deep Cycle Interstate Battery and a whopping 1.5HP DC motor  ;D

Top speed is 15 MPH




I need one of those to get from the house to the Command Control station on our WM.  My right foot has been gimped up for a month now and I need to stay off it until it gets better.  I'd have to gear it down I'd think.  Maybe have knobby tires? ::)

Is there a reverse?

Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ElectricAl

Bibby,

This one does have an extra terminal to reverse the motor. You'd have to add a second solenoid and switch. ;)

The local go cart race shop could fix you up with some knobbys. ;D

Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

Dave Shepard

Got a Popular Mechanics in the mail today. Had an article by the myth busters guys on go carts. The took two identical carts and stripped the gas motor off of one and put a DC motor on it. Lap times were within one second. Gas weighed 180, electric weighed 300. Electric would launch much harder, but the gas had a higher top end speed. When I was in high school a kid took a 5 hp mini bike and put a starter motor on it with a centrifigal clutch and a big battery. There was no speed control, you just had to keep clicking it on and off. :D


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

StorminN

Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Fla._Deadheader


Transforming a Fiero-plastic Car, made in the USA, is being done in backyards.

  It is not that difficult, and, there is no need to spend a lot of money on a sub-sub compact. Might be nice to drive cheaply, and it would probably be a nice coffin.

  When I am in a compact car, and run alongside a Semi, all I see is the center of the wheels  ::) ::) ::)  Not a comforting feeling.

  A set of forklift batteries and a 400-500 amp aircraft generator, and a control system, is all you need, except for the changeover.

  Americans, for the most part, are too lazy to do a little extra maintenance, to own and operate an electric car, or make and use Biodiesel, or straight Veg oil, or set up their house for solar and wind power.  They want things with no extra effort expended. That's why the prices of petro products are so high. TOO MUCH demand. No extra effort.  ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

StorminN

Well deadheader,

I for one want to try it, and I've been collecting some of the parts. I've got a collection of big L-16 batteries now, and enough big copper cable... but I need a motor and controller. I picked up a small (5"?) 90VDC motor the other day, but it would only be good for a go kart or golf cart, not big enough for even a small car. I'm on the lookout for a scrap forklift or such beast, or a cheap used 8" or 9" DC motor. A lady at work has an all-electric converted TR-8, and she blew up her tweaked-out Curtis controller. A friend of mine is fixing the controller, when he does, I might try and buy her spare controller when the time comes.

The big question is, what vehicle to convert? I completely agree with you about feeling uncomfortable in the small cars... especially after seeing a fatal collision happen right in front of me a couple of years ago, I've been wigged out. I've been driving 6,000-7,000lb vehicles for too long. I've got a Subaru wagon and an Isuzu Trooper that might make OK conversions. The problem is, a couple of months out of the year, I sort of need 4WD. With lead acid batteries they wouldn't have much range, but my commute is only 15 miles and my work has said that they will install a charging station for anyone else that gets an electric car... so range is not a huge issue. If I could get 30-40 miles, I would be happy.

There's a place in town here called evparts, they are one of the online supply places. Their owner has been on the Discovery channel and such, he's got a few converted cars he races (a '29 Ford roadster, a Mazda RX7, a Land Rover, and a Grumman postal van called "Gone Postal"). Anyhoo, they've had a warehouse in the same business park that I work in for a while now, and they just opened a new showroom a couple of weeks ago. They sell EV parts and golf carts, EV scooters, and they will be selling the Zenn NEV cars etc. We stopped by there the other day on the way back from lunch... got to check out some of the controllers and motors there, some neat stuff.

A bike or scooter would be a fairly cheap... an easy first project, I might try that out. I saw a guy online that was running one on three v28 Milwaukee tool batteries... those are 28V lithium ion, nice batteries. I was thinking I could do the same thing with the Ryobi 18V Lion batteries for less money... or source the raw cells and make up a pack myself. Too many projects, not enough time or money!

P.S. I also do have about 1kW of PV panels that I could help charge this thing with, once I got it done...

-N.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Fla._Deadheader


Stormin, I was stopped cold, when no one could build my electronic controller.

  I converted a Mazda Pickup, with a 500 amp Jack & Heintz aircraft generator. Had it bolted to a homemade bellhousing, that bolted to the trans. Had the clutch and all.

  Put a 2 cyl. Onan engine in the engine compartment, that ran a 100 Amp generator, for charging, and the electronic circuit had a re-generative braking feature, that would use the big motor as a generator, to slow the truck on deceleration, and charge the batteries. It was mechanically working, just no controller.

  There are a jillion vehicles that would make a slick conversion.  There are many good reference books, IF you know someone that is electronically literate.

  I also wired it up with #2 welding cable, doubled in homemade copper lugs.

  We used the welding cable for the 4KW Wind generator that powered our house for 5 years, but, they don't work either.  ::) ::)

  Still have the motor-generators, in Florida.  ;D ;D 8) 8)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

StorminN

Deadheader,

That setup sounds promising. What was it about your controller that couldn't be built? The regen? If you're interested, let me talk to the lady that I work with that has the TR-8EV... her tweaked Curtis controller came from a guy down California (the Bay area?) that I was told builds custom stuff... I'll try and get a number / email for him...

The electronics end of this doesn't intimidate me, I've tinkered with that stuff my whole life... from building tube amps and microphones, to my fair share of DC stuff... wiring 32VDC commercial fishing boats, and a few off-grid PV setups.

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Fla._Deadheader


I can wire about anything, AC, DC, 12,500 volts and up or down. Boats, cars, houses, not familiar with 3 phase.

  Circuit boards have lots of little parts on them, and they all have smoke in them.  ::) :D :D  The circuit was not real detailed. We had 3-200 Amp Transistors, BIG Blue, cylindrical Capacitors, and lots of little stuff. My neighbor thought he had the experience to make the boards up, from Breadboard. Didn't get it to work.

  He later died, and all his stuff got carried off.  ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

StorminN

well deadheader,

If you still have the truck, I talked to the lady here and she tells me the guy she bought her converted car off of was Mike Bachman, he works for Curtis Instruments, the ones that make Curtis controllers. She has since lost his contact information, but you might be able to track him down by calling Curtis. They are down in Livermore, CA... I think they have a couple of wind turbines down there!  ;D ;D.

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Fla._Deadheader


That truck is long gone. I stripped out all the electric stuff, and put in a Wisconsin 4 cyl. air-cooled. It had 1 bad cylinder, and Teri and Ed could not get a launch, to top the hill by our house. I took it to Florida, and my Dad sold it.  ::)

  Have any of you guys really looked into Hydrogen ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

StorminN

Deadheader,

I haven't looked into hydrogen too hard, but my buddy (Dangerous Dave on here) has a hydroxy setup that he built and installed in his Dodge gasser pickup that he's been testing the past couple of weeks... so far, he's seen about a 30% increase in mileage, and that's with brute force, no pulser circuit... but I guess this should go in the Brown's gas thread, not here...

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Fla._Deadheader


Y'all READY ???  I got some BIG news. REALLY BIG news.

  I was watching a program on the tube last night, and it mentioned that Peterbilt, was designing an ELECTRIC HYBRID Semi Tractor.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

  I think that's pretty BIG news  ;D ;D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

CLL

Seen article on TV last night about the hybrid cars. Seems the companies are forgeting a few problems. #1 the average hybrid is $6000 higher than normal vehicle. #2 the average consumer(15,000) miles per year can't justify the cost. Example-- 2008 Saturn Hybrid SUV will take 24 years to come out on. The only cars the test people passed was the Toyota Prius and the Honda Prelude. What was funny the Saturn gas powered SUV actually got better mileage. Looks like the small motorcycles getting 75 mpg is selling like hotcakes. Only problem is, you can't scale 1000 bdft of lumber. 8)
Too much work-not enough pay.

JimMartin9999

I don´t know how to put in the reference some of the other guys use. sorry.
Some  talk about  the car and oil companies surpressing technology which would save on gas etc.
The same people own those two industries and are trying to maximise profit. They are not dumb.   That´s the way things work.  Naturally the automotive industry  will surpress oil saving technology because for it there is no question of conflict of interest,  clearly there is  for the consumer but not for the group of people who own both oil and automotive production. 
Jim

StorminN

We started talking electric cars in the "Solar... It's not a joke" thread, so I figured I'd ask here... has anyone on here completed a conversion of an all-electric vehicle?

I'm thinking I'm going to do a conversion in the next few months, maybe this winter... I've got a Nissan pickup that is the likely candidate.

There are a few suppliers of adaptor plates (to bolt the electric motor to your existing transmission), these are the two main ones that I've found so far:
Electro Automotive
Canadian Electric Vehicles, Inc.

Here's an album with some cars that people have converted:
EV Album

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Fla._Deadheader


I made the bellhousing for my Mazda conversion. Used ½" steel plate that I had laying around. Cut the middle section out and spaced it so I could weld it to the outer ring and got the 1" spacing it took to clear the flywheel. Trans had the rest of the bellhousing, so, I got to hook up the clutch and all. It's NOT necessary to use the clutch, but, the torque is at a dead start, in forward or reverse. We had hilly ground, so I figured shifting to a lower gear would help conserve some juice in the batteries.

  Used Forklift type batteries. Just couldn't get an Electronics genius to make a working controller. ???

  Had a small gas engine and generator under the hood for charging on the go. ??? 

  None of this stuff is difficult. Just gotta know what you are doing   ::) ::) ;D ;D :D

  Gotta see if Ed can snap a photo of the motor with the bellhousing. I THINK it's still on there ???  ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

StorminN

Deadheader,

If you could get a picture of the motor / bellhousing, that would be great! What did you space it out with (what separates the inner and outer ring?) and how did you keep it all lined up (the electric motor and the clutch)?

Have you checked out the Zapi controllers? They make some DC ones with regen (check out the H3D)...

Zapi Controllers

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

farmerdoug

A guy in a town by me, Yale, has bought a Zap Zebra on eBay.  The article says 35 miles a 35 MPH.
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Fla._Deadheader


UPDATE:

  Sorry Norm. Ed tells me the bellhousing is not on that motor ??? Have NO IDEE where it went. Possibly left in Arkansas ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

StorminN

Ford was just awarded a $10 Million grant to develop a plugin hybrid...

Ford Awarded $10M DOE Grant to Accelerate PHEV Development

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Bibbyman

http://www.reservemyanvil.com/

I was listening to the radio last Friday when I heard they were having an open house in Mexico, Mo. for a new electric car.  Our Senator Kit Bond was going to be there.  Well, we missed it.  But I did note that the golf cart place west of Mexico was going to be the dealer for the new Anvil. 

Mary was interested in going someplace and doing something.  She didn't know what but later in the morning she decided we should go up and look at the new Anvil.  We went up but didn't look at one as they only and a prototype at the announcement.

We did get a brochure and talked to the sales guy.  He said they had 40 on order and 40 sold.  Said they'd start coming in in a month or so. 

The vehicle was little more than a golf cart with a few details to make it street legal any places posted to a speed limit 35mph. 

Mary didn't get the price of the Anvil.  I thought she did.  But they had another brand there that was also street legal.  It was not as "fancy".  It costs over $11,000 but had a $4500 tax credit. I would guess the Anvil would be higher.  It came with a $5,000 tax credit.

We talked about the Anvil on our way to Wal-Mart.  Mary noted that the $5000 was a tax credit.  And if you did not owe $5000 in taxes, it wouldn't do you any good.  Well, it would apply to taxes you owed I guess. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

fishpharmer

Bibbyman, thanks for sharing that.  I kinda like the Anvil.  It has "jeepish" lines to my eye.  And the performance numbers look acceptable.  Wonder if it can be enclosed?  Most probably doesn't have climate control.   I could suffer thru that if was inexpensive enough to own and operate.

It seems like the production EV's are outrageously priced. 

This http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehicles/phoenix-sut.php is one of the most impressive to me.  Has all the bells and whistles.  I believe its in the $45,000 range.  To rich for me. 

I have an old toyota truck that I would like to build something like this,  http://www.housebun.org/bob/ev.html   more my price range.   

What do ya'll think?

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

moonhill

I think the S-10 would be too heavy for the set up it has, is my initial guess. 

The Phoenix weighs 4,820 pounds and can carry an extra 1000 pounds.  I wonder how long or many miles the battery pack will go and its cost replacement value?  It is no golf cart, it travels at 60 mph and can go 100 miles on a 10 minute charge.  And the cost, you can dump that much into a fancy Ford.  They are getting there.

Tim 
This is a test, please stand by...

olyman

 It had a little 3 cylinder diesel engine.  I believe the market killed that car.
Mark

   
[/quote] tho old post--it was a 4 cyl diesel. also, breaking rubber timing belts, and dealer not telling new owners when to replace belts, is what killed the ford dsl-- owned four diff ones

Bill

Warning - this may just be a rant in disguise -

I know the thread is about electric but I want to throw in a plug for biodiesel.

I picked up a used stick shift vw diesel 4 yrs back - car is now 8 yrs old w/125,000 miles. This past spring I drove down to FL and back. Mostly got 51-53 mpg cruising high 65+ with some local driving mixed in . However coming back from FL I got to make a straight run thru GA, SC and into NC at a steady 70 ( the speed limit there and with a/c sometimes on sometimes off ) and got a solid 57 mpg. Next tank was mixed driving at 51-53 mpg so no short fillup to muck up the mpg's. 

So I'm thinking when the truck(s) are too much that little diesel ain't so bad after all and will hold her own with most - 42-44 around town and new record high of 57 mpg on the highway  . . .

Course some'll say the pollution is worse than a gas or hybrid or plugin or  . . .  What they're not saying is that gas and such have micro particulates that are worse for you than the particulates in diesel, voc's that diesel just doesn't have ( things like benzene and more ), etc etc - in short whether it comes from gas, NG or off the grid - they mostly still use fossil fuels to make the electric - which makes all the pollution they're complaining about . I 'd just as soon see us push biodiesel - technology is here now and works  -  while we wait for a solar powered ( photovoltaic cells ) car that 's reasonable . Gossip is that Europe pushes diesel and is saving one and a half million barrels of oil per day - even if gossip - a pretty big number .

Least thats my two cents . . . .   maybe less


"The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today but such oils may become in the course of time as important as the petroleum and coal tar products of the present time" - Rudolph Diesel. 1912  ( he wanted to free the farmer from an energy monopoly according to legend )


moonhill

This is a test, please stand by...

Ianab

Another new Hybrid prototype, from BMW this time.

Hybrids dont have to be boring.

1.5l diesel engine, top speed is computer limited to 150mph, 0-60mph time is 4.8 secs  ;D :o

Can drive on electric only and recharge from the mains, diesel only, or as a normal hybrid.

Can get 70mpg, and drive 30 miles on battery alone, although maybe not if you are doing top speed  ;)

It shows what the car companies can produce, now they just have to produce it so we can afford it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10597413
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/bmw-vision-efficient-dynamics-concept-2009-09-01

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

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