iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Oil man going bankrupt

Started by Ron Wenrich, April 23, 2008, 01:20:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ron Wenrich

We might be loosing our fuel oil supplier.  Seems that lots of people haven't been paying their oil bills.  So, they have run out of credit from their suppliers.  We went to fill our one of our trucks the other day and they were out of fuel.  They didn't deliver mill fuel last Friday.  Now we're getting it in spurts.

They also told us that there are a lot less fuel oil trucks at the terminal.  Usually it was a long wait, but now there are no trucks.  It might just be the end of heating season, or it may be the lack of credit.

I wonder how many fuel oil delivery services have been stiffed by homeowners?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

SeeSaw

Ron,


Sad to say but the answer may be close to the same number of homeowners that have been stiffed by the Oil companies.  I'm not talking on a local level here so much as I am a national Level.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, completely worn out and loudly proclaiming, WHAT A RIDE...!

crtreedude

We pretty much can buy wood here in Costa Rica when most people are having problem. The answer is pretty straight forward - we pay cash on delivery. Most sawmills pay in 15 to 30 days.

We require more of them, and check every piece coming in - but if we accept it - you have your money in your hand. Makes people smile (once they get over the shock!)

Wood has shot up in price so much in the last few years, it has been hard for furniture makers to buy to replace their stock.
So, how did I end up here anyway?

flip

At first when I read the subject line I thought this was going to be a joke of some kind.  Wouldn't be surprised at some point that you will have to pay up front before they even order from their supplier.  What's next, armed escorts ??? ::) ::)
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

stonebroke

That is a business I would not like to be in at the moment. Headaches all around.

Stonebroke

little Bark

Two short stories that happened here.  

Back in the fall two oil Co. had trucks stolen during the night sometime and both cases the trucks had more then 800 gallons of desiel in them.  Never heard if they cought the guy.

A local Co under new ownership some how did not pre buy enough oil to cover there buget customers that locked in there price last summer.  At one point I heard that they were delivering 10 gallons at a time until they could find someone to sell them more oil.  That nevere happened they got bought by a large local Co.
Always use the rite tool for the job.

flip

Got a good feeling that if we hit the magic $200/barrel there are going to be a lot of people out of business.  The worst part prices for everything else will go up, food if there are still truckers on the road to deliver it, will be astronomical.  I see a lot of localized protests and maybe in larger cities small riots.  We are sitting on several huge reserves but for what ever reasons the powers that be refuse to do anything about it.  If our friends the oil companies keep showing record profits when the guard changes in November/January, depending on who we get, they may be paying out their noses in windfall taxes.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

LeeB

That same "guard" that will impose the winfall profit taxes is also the same one that keeps the reserves you talk about from being drilled.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

IL Bull

Quote from: LeeB on April 23, 2008, 05:30:03 PMThat same "guard" that will impose the winfall profit taxes is also the same one that keeps the reserves you talk about from being drilled.
Ditto that LeeB :P
Case Skid Steer,  Ford Backhoe,  Allis WD45 and Burg Manual Sawmill

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Those railroad ads which are on TV these days say something like...
"So efficient that we can move a ton of freight 433(?) miles on a gallon of fuel."

The number I quote may be wrong, but the sentiment might just catch on before long.
It will be a simple matter of letting the numbers talk.  I don't think we have the rail speed
or capacity to really handle such a shift, if it happens.  All the downtown switch yards in
my little town are now a park-like green space.   

Of course, the railroad does still own it, donchaknow! ;)

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Don P

Actually, no. With the rails to trails here the railroad gave up ownership of the line when they took up the tracks. With us we now have bike trails where we used to have a cheap narrow guage heavy hauler, the Virginia Creeper.

rebocardo

I imagine if they have a fair amount of customers that are going bankrupt, ordering oil for which they know they will never pay, that could put the oil man out of business fast.

Ron Wenrich

Railroads aren't going bankrupt.  They're still buying lots of ties.  I'm seeing lots of container cars with Chinese names on them on some of those cars.  What do they know that we don't?  Also seeing trailers on the cars, which means a truck didn't have to go long distances to haul.  That 400 mile figure pertains to both trains and boats. 

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

SwampDonkey

They'll wish they didn't make trails out of our rail service here in time. After the 70's oil crisis and prices coming back down, people went back into short term thinking and forgot about the long term effects of being inefficient moving freight. There is still a lot of scenic driving going on around here and I live on a dead end road. I see the same vehicles going up and down and I don't know how they can afford it and not be somewhere working.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

farmerdoug

Think about it guys.  They turned those rails into trails.  But if they need them again all they have to do is buy them back.  As a trail the right of ways are still intact.  If they gave it back to the land owners it would be alot harder to recover.  If they tell the Government that they need those right of ways they will get them. ::)
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

SwampDonkey

DNR holds the trail system here, so it has come full circle. It was Crown land before, then company, now back to crown......round and round the merry go round. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

pappy19

Quote from: SeeSaw on April 23, 2008, 01:36:15 PM
Ron,


Sad to say but the answer may be close to the same number of homeowners that have been stiffed by the Oil companies.  I'm not talking on a local level here so much as I am a national Level.


Check this out before you go too far out on a limb.

http://www.energyandcapital.com/newsletter.php?date=2008-04-23
2008 F-250 V-10
2007 Lincoln LT
1996 Ford Bronco
Kubota 900 RTV
Shindiawa fan

OneWithWood

Interesting read, Pappy.  thanks.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

SeeSaw

Pappy,

Sorry, No sale here!  Guess it just depends on what you choose to believe.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, completely worn out and loudly proclaiming, WHAT A RIDE...!

olyman

im with seesaw---monopolys abide in big oil----

Handy Andy

  I have an old abandoned rail line right through the middle of my place.  Luck y  for me it is not a trail.  The railroad tried to keep it, but we had a committee that bothered the socalled trail group.  Was a lawyer in KC.  He didn't care to talk to us after we finally figured out who it was. And he just cussed and dropped it.  Nobody was going to build a trail anyway.  Would have just been a strip of weeds hundreds of miles long.  And the railroad was NOT a good neighbor.  Don't want them back.  Jim
My name's Jim, I like wood.

Woodchuck53

Sorry guys had to put my 2 cents in. The facility I am on right now is part of a 6 location package. This is the biggest in terms of deck space. (roughly 4 acre) We are in 4700' of water tethered to the gulf with 16 chains holding a thousand kips. Roughly a million pounds apeice. Oil is here just harder and more expensive to reach. The package came in at 17 billion dollars. Our facility has 165 people drilling and production, service support and catering working 14 on and 14 off. The can was built in Finland and the topsides were built in Engleside, Texas. Welded together and floated to our location 150 miles south of New Orleans. The first 10 wells, installation and subsea inspection came in just under 3 billion. We are designed to lift, seperate and pump down the line at 150,000 bbls oil and 130 million cubic feet of natural gas a day. The company I work for's total prodution from this area is just under 3 % the needs of all of us in the states. We are online 24/7 and only shut down and evac. for hurricans. It's an expensive business. I paid 3.85 a gallon to come to work this week. Hope this doesn't tick any one off but we are pumping it as fast as we can. The rest is up to Washington. Have a great day. Chuck
Case 1030 w/ Ford FEL, NH 3930 w/Ford FEL, Ford 801 backhoe/loader, TMC 4000# forklift, Stihl 090G-60" bar, 039AV, and 038, Corley 52" circle saw, 15" AMT planer Corley edger, F-350 1 ton, Ford 8000, 20' deck for loader and hauling, F-800 40' bucket truck, C60 Chevy 6 yd. dump truck.

Don P

I've driven by the facility in Engleside, have mercy there's some big steel there.
Cutting demand is probably the best we can do right now and most of us don't have much trim room.

What Handy Andy mentions is what happened here when the rails to trails happened from my memory. Some of the landowners sued for their land back when the railroad took up the track and the state tried to take it for the trails. When you ride (well coast) the 27 miles down the creeper trail there are several places where you open and close gates and are crossing private land with permission. I don't think the railroad would get that back without condemning it. The town at the bottom of the trail is there in large part due to the tourist economy the trail brought in, they wouldn't give up their livlihood easily. The corridor could be re-established I'm sure but it wouldn't be simple.

On the I-81 north-south corridor near here the truck traffic has gotten pretty congested, they are working on a large intermodal facility near here which should help. I think that's a great move.

stonebroke

In Ohio they tried to put in some trails and finally discovered thet the railroads did not even have right of ways no less owning the land.

Stonebroke

mad dog

                                                                                                                                                  Trains should do all the long hauls and trucks do the short ones
mad dog 78 acres,pasqualli tractor,L-15 woodmiser

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Don P on April 25, 2008, 08:18:03 AM
The town at the bottom of the trail is there in large part due to the tourist economy the trail brought in, they wouldn't give up their livlihood easily. The corridor could be re-established I'm sure but it wouldn't be simple.

Well if history repeats itself, all they do is pay what they think it's worth and government makes legislation to protect the rail road company from being sued. My grandfather and his uncle lost part or most of their livelihood and the heavy hand of the government said we are taking this, here's what we are paying, take it or leave it. It's called expropriation.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

mountaineer

if you really want to get in-depth about peak oil, then go here- lifeaftertheoilcrash.net i went there well over a year ago and it scared the heck out of me. i wasn't right for two days. now i don't know if things are going to get as bad as this article says, but if it gets anywhere as bad then we are in for it. for most people this article will take a couple hours to read. it really breaks it all down and answers all questions you could ask. now in the end you will see that the person that wrote it is trying to sells books to be ready for " the end" so take it for what i's worth. you might think it's propaganda to make money or you might agree with it. me- i think that it will happen, just not at the level he is saying and not as quick. (i hope) one more thing, in the year that it's been since i have read it, everything he said has come true.  :P :P happy reading

DanG

It sounds to me like the oil man is suffering the result of his own poor business decision.  I realize that the practice of "locking in" prices for a season is the traditional practice in that business, but he is taking a huge risk when he agree's to a price on a commodity he does not yet own.  It is unfortunate that he had to agree to this practice in order to keep his customers, but we all need to realize that there are no guarantees in business.  Everyone is dependent upon everone else to keep things stable so we can have a reasonable expectation of survival.  It appears to me that someone has gotten real greedy, and has jerked the rug out from under everyone else.  Who is it?  Well, it is hard to really know what is going on.  We are being inundated with misinformation and speculative opinions of so-called "experts", and have very little real knowledge of what is going on.  As I type this, I am listening to a financial program on NPR.  It consists of a parade of experts, each touting their opinions as the gospel, all conflicting with one another, and a moderator who blindly agrees with all of them.  If this is the best info available, is there any wonder the economy has gone berserk?  We are very fortunate to have this forum where we can discuss this sort of stuff, but we still can't come to agreement as to where the truth lies.  Some say we're running out of oil, and some say we aren't.  Some blame the Government, some blame business, some blame China, and some blame Walmart.  Some think we're going down the tube, while others are seeing new opportunities.  I'm beginning to think that the only thing we know is that we don't know.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

LeeB

Dang, are you part politician?  :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

ellmoe

Quote from: LeeB on April 26, 2008, 01:08:34 PM
Dang, are you part politician?  :D

   UH OH! I think them are fightin' words! :D

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

DanG

Quote from: Woodchuck53 on April 25, 2008, 06:16:25 AM
Hope this doesn't tick any one off but we are pumping it as fast as we can. The rest is up to Washington.

It doesn't tick me off, even a little bit, WC.  You guys are doing a great job of getting out what we allow ourselves.  The rest ain't up to Washington, however, it is up to us.  The "fact" that we have reached "peak oil"(whatever that means) does not mean that we will run out tomorrow.  The current price crisis is doing its job.  Scientists and entrepeneurs are  working feverishly to come up with new sources of energy, and the oil companies are admitting that oil ain't where it's at anymore.  We're gonna be ok, but things are never going back to where they were just a few years ago.

Ellmoe, I ain't in a fight with nobody, let alone an oil rig hand that is smart enough to get on the ForestryForum from BFE!  Lee, you're almost right.  I'm 100% politician, but I've had way too much fun in this life to get elected to anything.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

LeeB

'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Thank You Sponsors!