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Question/Opinions please re: selective cutting for firewood

Started by Mongo, April 22, 2008, 08:50:44 PM

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Mongo

Hello all,

I'm a bit late....but finally getting around to getting the wood cut for next winter (luckily I have a couple of cords left from last winter so I'll have a cpl extra months dry time for this stuff...)

On one hand, I'll probably never have this land logged commercially (It was done once 15 years ago), but on the other hand, I hate to just burn up what might be considered a quality log. Who knows, maybe someday I'll manage to get a bandsaw mill of my own to play with.  ;D

Anyway, my question is regarding multiple trunks coming out of 1 stump. Is it better to cut one out and leave the other, or will doing so create too great a chance of the other(s) becoming diseased?  Also, is it better to cut...
A) The smaller of the 2
B) The least straight of the 2

What about when it's more than 2? Cut all but 1? Leave the best 2 or 3?


jokers

I don`t think that there is one right answer without seeing each tree. You can cut one trunk out or several. I always cut the "stump" on a bevel so it sheds water and am extra careful not to damage the bark on that which isn`t being cut at this time. Assuming that the trees in question may have some timber value I would cut the least straight or most defective and leave the smaller ones to grow some more if they look pretty good.

What species are you cutting?

Mongo

Well, the ones I'm thinking about specifically are maple (although red or sugar I couldn't tell you...) but birch tend to grow the same way.  Is it common for other species to do so? Trying to think if I've ever seen a "clump" of oak etc growing like that.

jokers

I`d get someone who is an expert to help you distinguish what species of maple you are cutting but if it`s multiple stems coming out of one base I`m going to hazard a guess that it`s red, or soft maple, cut `em all down IMO if they are competing with higher value species. Soft maple isn`t one of the better "hardwood" firewood species either, but it will make heat.

White birch? Same as the soft maple unless you have a unique market for it.

Ron Wenrich

Multi stemmed trees rarely make good crop trees.  They come from sucker sprouts off of the root collar on trees that have been cut.  They're prone to heartrot.  Cut down one and when that rots, it can go back into the residuals. 

A lot depends on what you're managing for.  If its crop trees, I'd opt for single stemmed trees.  Release them by cutting the multi stemmed whenever possible.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ianab

I would suggest you want to cull out the multi-stem trees for firewood and free the space for the straight stem new trees that will give you better sawlogs in the future. But take it on a case buy case basis. If a stump has a number of good stems that look like they could be sawlogs in the near future, maybe leave them.

If it's a collection of bananas, then firewood the whole thing

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

zackman1801

joker is right if its all coming out of 1 stump that its soft maple and really isnt worth anything even in veneer markets. You can cut all of that stuff you want to. like others said all its doing is making the other trees in the area that might be worth something work harder for food and light. 
"Improvise, Adapt, OVERCOME!"
Husky 365sp 20" bar

Mongo

I know when it's multiple stems coming up from one base that it's soft maple, but what about when it's just 2? I tried uploading some pics, but seem to be having problems figuring it out, lol. I uploaded them, and now can't find them in my album. About to head down now and get some work done (hey, it's only noon...) but this evening I'll try and figure it out or find some picture hosting site that allows hotlinks.

My grandfather would be so ashamed of me...  smiley_embarrased

Clark

I would have to agree with the advice given above, multiple stemmed trees tend to have poor form and result in poor crop trees.  Given that, it is usually best to cut them both.

However, there are always exceptions and what fun would life be without exceptions?  Maple will often enough have two or more stems that originate from the same stump but are far enough apart that cutting one won't directly introduce pathogens into the other one.  Now granted, they both may already have rot, but that can be impossible to tell without cutting it first. 

So should you ever cut one and leave the other?  I think there are many cases when that is advisable and can help the form class of other trees growing in that immediate area.  I have marked stands where if one were to take all the double stemmed trees, you'd be growing nothing but raspberries there next year!  So I think leaving one of those trees can often help with spacing and stocking control.  After all, you're looking at firewood, not veneer so leaving a potentially junky tree out there isn't that big of a deal anyway.  A tree that makes several esses burns as well as a #1 sawlog!

So yes, leave some members of those pairings out there, they will help you continue to grow BTUs (or volume if you prefer), not necessarily value which is fine when growing firewood.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

woodmills1

coppice is a word for a fire wood production from old trees.  The old timers would harvest a market tree and then let the suckers grow till perfect firewood size.  If this is you situation you don't have logs but you got nice firewood.  Do what the others say get someone to tell you what you have and save the logs but still get your firewood.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Ron Wenrich

I saw where they were using coppice for firewood in Germany.  However, they were on trees growing in the understory, not canopy level trees.  The ones they coppiced were ironwood, and they had a nice overstory of very large white oak and beech.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

woodmills1

James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Woodhog

I am doing this on a 140 acre piece of land and it is mixed with maple and oak, I guess it is what they call soft maple on here...also has some pine and spruce mixed in, the porcupines wrecked most of the spruce years ago..

If a clump has about 5 in it I try to leave the best two, after a while it is very easy to spot the best trees, they seem to average about 2 straight dominant trees in a clump...

I also leave all the single trees if they have very little defects and have a good healthy top section.

The land owner wanted  the work done with the least amount of disturbance, I go thru an area once and then a second time as there is always trees that you miss the first time that should have come down.

I only take firewood quality wood and leave all the good stuff for someone in the long term future to look at or cut it down.

I also leave all the  dead and cavity trees for the real owners of the piece.

The wood coming out is anywhere from about a foot down to 2 inches as I use most everything on the tree.

It looks really nice and that is what the owner was after.

Phorester

My thoughts on stump sprouts;
First, favor a single tree over stump sprouts, but if that is the only choice to have a fairly good tree at your predetermined spacing, (sometimes you have to pick the best of the worst choices) I pick the sprout to leave with the following criteria, in order of importance....

1. If you can put your boot between the sprouts and easily pull it out (a U joint), you can leave one.  If your boot gets stuck (a V joint), cut both.
2. Closest to the ground (less rot in the stump of the sprout)
3. Straightest (best commercial quality)
4. Tallest (shows the most vigor, therefore the healthiest)
5. If equal height, choose the largest diameter (shows the most vigor between 2 or more of equal height)
6. Only leave one sprout per stump.



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