Setting up a Foley Belsaw M-14

[HOGFARMER]

I just bought a Foley Belsaw M-14 from Woody1 neighbor.  He was a great help in the purchase as well as taking it apart and loading it on my pick-up truck.  We got the whole thing on one load.  I know that is hard to beleive, but true.
Now my question is how do I set it up.  It is an all steel framed model.  Do I put concrete pads below the legs?  And if so do they need to extend below the frost line?  What other tips can you give me.  I would appreciate all suggestions as I have never operated a sawmill.  Thanks in advance.

[Don P]

The assembly manual recommends concrete footings 14" wide x 46" long x 36-60" deep projecting about 3" above grade.

I have the 36 page manual and a scanner, a few pages are in kinda tough shape but i think it would work if you need one. PM me your email adress if you want to try, I'm on dialup and it might take a few evenings. Could also burn a cd and mail it snail mail. The footing drawing will probably keep you busy through the weekend. If you wanted to stretch the track, now's as good a time as any before you pour or dig.

[den]

What are you going to use to power the mill.
My EX neighbor used a IH super H and it wasn't enough power.
A IH Super M or the likes is the minium I guess?

[HOGFARMER]

Her on the farm we have 5 tractors between 55Hp and 150Hp all but one is an IH machine and the othere one is a Massey.  We also keep a Ford loadere backhoe and a Massey dozer.  Will probably try to run about 85 Hp on it. 

[twobears]

my dads has owned a belsaw mill for about 30 years.he ran it as a business for 20 of those years. it ran every day from mid april until mid oct.he used a 50 hp electric motor to run it and that was plenty of power.
you should really think about having a guard between you and the saw blade.i,ve seen my dads mill throw a slab a very long ways(around 200 feet) and i,ve seen it put a green 2x12 thur the end of the mill building...that was after it ripped it out of both our hands.dad had a three foot square sheet of lexan set in a wooden frame.it was made so he could slide it open or closed depending on the size of the log.he had a table built around the sawblade and the guard was set on the end of that.i,ve seen it get hit hard more then once.
when,you set it up you might wanta think about putting a few extra drive belts on it.otherwise you,ll have to take the saw mandrel off to replace them.we just put them on and had them hooked to the offside frame.

delbert

[bandmiller2]

Hogfarmer,those old bellsaw mills work well .You must be careful turning and rolling logs the carrages are light duty and easily damaged.If Don could copy the part with the log turners they are hinged and located where you load and turn the logs.The turners take the brunt of the shock when you turn the logs or cant,then it just slides gently back on the carrage.Frank C.

[HOGFARMER]

Thanks all for the suggestions ans please keep them comming.  I have no experience at running a mill and definetly want to make a safe and workable setup.

[twobears]

HOGFARMER:i,ll get you some pics of dads mill.when,he stopped running it as a business he tore the old building down and moved his mill.he just set it back up for his own use.it,s setup alot diffrent now tho.
we used the turning block and i think he still uses them they work pretty good.i,ll get pic,s of them for you.if you take care of that mill and blade it,ll cut very nice lumber.

delbert

[swamptoy]

If you pour concrete footings and your blade is over 40" be sure to make a recess for blade clearance on the footing nearest the blade. My manual didn't mention this and I spent some time with a hammer and chisel removing 2 or 3 inches of the hardest concrete I've ever seen. My blade is 46" and if I ever go to a larger size, I will have to chisel some more concrete. Oh, by the way, some people have these sawmills mounted with wheels so they can be moved. 

[twobears]

HOGFARMER:i took some pics of my dads mill and i,ll try to post them tonight.i have pics of the whole setup and things you asked about..like,the turning block,ect..i,ll also try to show you a few things we changed.one of which is the brake for the log stops.the factory brake is way to small and it wears out fast.we changed it to a much better system.we also changed the rod that holds the cable pulley on each end..over time the rod bends and breaks.we just used some flat bar to build a yoke to hold the pulley.

delbert

[cluckerplucker]

hogfarmer are you driving the mill with the belt or pto? I used a mf 235 to run my m-14 with a pto shaft and builtin clutch .I hade the blade hammer for 540 rpm and never had a problem with power.I sold the mill after I built my band mill. I still have the 540 rpm blade if interested.  cluckerplucker

[bandmiller2]

Hogfarmer,got your message,I have never owned a belsaw mill but have worked around them,they are the model 'T' of sawmills.Their big advantage is also their weak spot.The arbor mounted under the ways makes for a ridgid compact package and perfect for a PTO drive from behind.That same handy arbor setup severely limits your carrage you must have tiny wheels and no real headblocks kinda like a log on a creeper.When I built my first mill I used many belsaw ideas just beef'em up a little.As outhers have said be sure to put guards around moving parts.Find a good hammersmith in your area.A roof over the mill is well worth the trouble,for the mill and you ,no ice and snow to slip on near the saw.Learning to be a circular sawyer is like learning to ride a bicycle you just have to do it ,don't be too upset if you heat the saw and have to have it rehammered its a rite of passage.Find someone in your area that has one ,and look at as many as you can find for ideas.Please keep us posted on your progress,ask anytime Frank C.

[Ron Wenrich]

One thing that some guys never learn is to not let the sun hit your saw while sawing.  It may be hard to believe, but the sun will put some heat on your blade and your saw won't perform as well. 

[HOGFARMER]

Ron, Does the sun hitting the blade heat part of it causing it to expand thus making the blade wobble?  Or does it behave differently from the heat?  I must admit I am surprised at this.  Thanks for the tip.

[bandmiller2]

Hogfarmer it has always seemed strange to me how the big blades and massive circle mills are so sensitive to minor missadjustment and a little heat.Most folks build a table to the left of the blade so when you cut a board or slab it lays their at a handy hight.If a chip or piece of bark gets between the table and blade it will heat it in short order.I made a narrow hinged section that would flip up via foot pedal if I had a piece of anything wedge ,kick the pedal and it would drop down.Probibly the most important skill for a sawyer is proper sharpening,its not easy freehand with a file,the tendency is to round ,or file at an angle.Sawmill tool and service co. Lyndonville Vt. makes a file guide for mill blades that is almost foolproof,at a little over $200.00 it takes the stress out of sharp.Frank C.

[rpg52]

When pouring the foundation for my Belsaw mill (STILL unfinished!), I used 12"cardboard concrete form tubes for each leg, sunk some scrap rebar in each, and had a bunch of 1/2" steel plates with four 5/8" holes punched in each one.  I put four 5/8" foundation bolts in each and leveled the plates on top with the bolts extending down into the concrete.   The bolts allow leveling of each leg after the concrete is set.  The forms save a lot of digging and concrete.  With a steel frame, you might not need the leveling like I did (I had to build a frame from scratch), but you'll use less concrete if you form up a pier under each set of legs instead of the massive block of concrete shown in the Belsaw manual. 
Great tip about the hinge Frank, I'll do that.  Someday when I get a bit closer to the finish line, I'll post some photos.  Roof and guards are next.
Twobears, what is the brake for the log stops?  You are right about the bar for the pulleys, I straightened mine, but likely will have to replace it eventually.
Ray

[sharp edge]

Hog
I will tell you about my mill, hope it will help you. It started out as a belsaw A-14 36" solid tooth a lot has changed, but still use the 36" blade which is 33" now. The frame is 3 layers of 1/2" green plywood X 40' long real ridge and doesn't change when the sun hits it like steel frames do.  It just sets on the ground. Haven't had to adjust anything in the last couple years, but only cut in the summer. Went to 1/8" cable, think the 1/4" was to big over 5" drums, worked good so far. Power it with a "91" Ford Escort using a Perice governor. Gets almost a 100 mpg@65mph with the saw running 750 rpm's. The car drives a jackshaft and use two V (B) belts over a 8" and 10" pulleys to drive the saw. If the belts start smoking, I have a kill switch near me and stop the mill, don't like melt downs. >:( Its a hobby and have lots of fun with it and the wood from it, hope you have lots of fun too.
SE

[Don P]

I'd like to see pics of that setup  8)
Well, I'd like to see pics of everyones setup.

[den]

As for a foundation, some use concrete blocks. Then fill the cores.

[bandmiller2]

Hogfarmer,anouther foundation that works is phone poles set in concrete.Did a hole four feet or so drop a round stone in the bottom set a legnth of pole on the stone and pour a concrete mushroom at its base.Level and backfill around the pole when cured strike a line and cut the tops level.Frank C.

[HOGFARMER]

I want to thank everyone for their input as it is appreciated.  Am currently busy planting my crops hope to get them done so that I can work on the mill.  I must admit that I am somewhat confused about turning the logs.  I realize that the carriage is light duty.  The talk about turners and turning blocks then sliding the log back onto the carriage is confusing to me.  Hope someone can post some pictures of this and how it is built.  Will be asking more questions as I proceed with this project.

[bandmiller2]

HF,can't post pictures but will try to explain better.The handiest thing I have found is a heavy deck for the logs the same hight as the carrage.Put two heavy posts close to the carrage where you load the logs,in line with the two timbers on your log deck.What you want is a 2' gap between the carrage and the log deck so you can walk without stepping over log deck timbers.have two short pieces of oak to put down to roll a new log on carrage.To turn the log or cant that is on the carrage flip up the two triangleular turners hinged to the two posts close to the mill.Turn the cant twords you it will lay down on the two turners and slide back on the carrage with one quarter turn.Have the hight of the carrage somewhere between knee and hip hight whatever feels comfortable to you.Easiest way to do that is by a wood deck to stand on.

[HOGFARMER]

Just a quick up-date, I am just about done with the spring field work here on the farm.  Then I can start putting in a foundation for this mill.  I also want to repaint it before installing it.

Hope the temperature and humidy fall as low 90's and high humidy make for a miserable time here in NE Ohio.  Sure would be more confortable if it were cooler.

Still thinking about foundations I feel putting it on solid footings poured 18" below the frost line is probably the way to go, but a slab with elevated footings under the legs for blade clearence would be a lot easier.  What do you all think?  Thanks!  8)

[bandmiller2]

Hogdrover,a slab is easy to figure but ,done right ,requires alot of concrete.Sono tubes filled with concrete or phone poles set in concrete use less material and work well.My old circle mill was steel and portable had 12 leveling jacks and sat on phone poles set level with the ground set in cement of course.What I did was weld 2" pipe couplings to the bottom of the mill,a short section of pipe with a leveling screw and jamb nut on the bottom screwed into it.When it was time to move the mill jack it up a little unscrew pipes from couplings set on its axles and tow with a tractor.Belsaw steel is the easiest circle mill to set up ,the tricky alignment is all done it just needs a solid base to set on,can even be set on blocking on firm ground for a little wile if kept level.Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Hogfarmer,been thinking about your Belsaw steel m-14 that has steel legs doesn't it?If your ground is not too sandy you can dig a trench say 16"x36" down below frost crosswise to the mill.Above ground make a frame to sit on top of the hole level ,use the soil in the hole for a form.Hardest part is getting the bolts in the right place.Probibly the easiest is to set bolts in the cement to a hight to bolt say a pressure treated 4x4 then lag the mill to it.Frank C.