Truckers going on strike?

[LOGDOG]

Hey Everyone,

   My wife and I were eating dinner out tonight when a report came on the TV. The reporter said that tonight at midnight the Truckers are going to start pulling their rigs over to the side of the road to protest the cost of diesel. Apparently the words been going out over the CB's. They said things are going to start to change as of midnight. Anyone else heard anything in your local areas? I think they should. What do you think?


LOGDOG

[Polly]

 8) 8)   i heard it was supposed to be first of may in cincy ohio area i wnow one thing it is a sorry mess cost of new diesels more taxes high priced fuel and lying politicians :D

[Furby]

I think you'll find that only the O/O and smaller companies will be in on it.
The drivers for the midsize on up companies don't care much what they pay as they think it really don't affect them.

[Warbird]

I hope they all pull over for a couple of weeks.  That will drastically lower the consumption, meaning there will be more supply, meaning the cost will go down.  Right?  ;)

[LOGDOG]

I think you're right Furby. The guys driving for Schneider, UPS, Fed-Ex and the like don't have much say. BUT ... If enough of the Owner Operators stick together it would really hit home. I remember when they did it in the 80's. It was quite a sight. Miles and Miles of big rigs on the side of the road.  It was a unique experience to witness.

Yep Warbird, that's how it should work if the supply and demand theory holds up. I got to thinking, how many civilian cars/suvs do you think there are to every semi? Or vice versa. I bet there's more dmand here in the USA for unleaded gasoline. Just my thought.


LOGDOG

[isawlogs]

  I think that those lying politicians could do more to help with the price of fuel then the drivers could by holding the people hostage over said price .

[Mooseherder]

I hope they all pull over for a couple of weeks.  That will drastically lower the consumption, meaning there will be more supply, meaning the cost will go down.  Right?  ;)

Or cause panic buying and make things much worse. :

[Brian_Rhoad]

It's not a supply/demand thing now with prices. I've heard we have a 15 year high surplus in fuel right now. The problem is the politicians and speculators keeping the prices up to satisfy the oil companies profits.

[LOGDOG]

Heard an interesting tidbit the other day. Apparently approximately 45-50% of the oil companies are owned by mutual funds. As in the investment pools that we use in our 401k's, retirement plans etc. The "Oil Companies Profits" are "our profits" in whatever fractional share we as investors may be investing in these instruments. All the same, I'd like to see prices on fuel come down. PDQ.


LOGDOG

[LeeB]

25% of the funds in my 401K are shares of the drilling contractor I work for. As of the first of this year we were told we could not buy any more as regards to 401K and have to move the funds we have in it to something else by 1st of next year. They say it is not making enough returns for the dollar invested. Go figure.

[Ron Wenrich]

The weak dollar also plays into the price of fuel.  Let's borrow a couple of trillion more.

Yesterday the truckers had a protest where they went onto the Interstate and drove 45 mph up to the capitol.  They want the state to stop collecting the 32¢/gal of road tax. 

So, what is it that the truckers think the government can really do?  I guess they could force the companies to fix prices like they did in the '70s when inflation got to 3%.  All the companies would do is take their products to more profitable markets.

They could do away with road taxes.  Instead of road taxes, the states probably would be forced into tolling the interstates.  Either that, or borrow more money to fix the roads, which would be more deficit spending, a weaker dollar, and higher fuel costs.

They could set a profit ceiling on oil companies.  Again, the companies could move to more profitable markets.

I don't see a trucker's strike as being a solution to anything.  The only thing to come out of it will be more regulations on an industry, which can quickly bleed to other industries.  I also haven't heard what the trucker's solution is to the problem.

[snowman]

Far as I'm concerned truckers should strike anyway, fuel prices or not. They are the most overworked underpaid group in USA! I went OTR for a few months to get experience then drove log truck a season and you can have it. Long hours, low pay especially OTR drivers. Log truck drivers make OK money but the hours are rediculous. STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE! ;D

[farmerdoug]

Controlling the fuel prices is not a government job.  In China they do it and are having a heck of a time getting fuel at the stations.  So striking for lower fuel prices is out but for better pay I do agree with.  The only problem is truckers are like farmers, they complain about the prices they get but they still work away with the prices they are given. :

[Carries-Mom]

I remember a time when diesel used to be cheaper than regular gas...now you have to take out a loan every time you fill up!! : :D  Boy, how things have changed..

[Fla._Deadheader]

   ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

  tsk, tsk, tsk.   No es problema en Costa Rica  : ;D ;D ;D

[limbrat]

I dont see a short term fix like a strike might bring about. If a strike ran prices up that might help or if the goverment added a dollar or more in taxes that might help too. When a company comes up with a way to move a truck on a route with the speed and dexterity of a diesel without using as much fuel it will have a real money maker. Without high fuel prices there is no need to change the technology.
The stone age didnt end because they ran out of stones. A more elastic less brittle technology ended it.

[Frickman]

Let me start out by saying that along with owning a truck or two myself I have contracted out the trucking of thousands of loads of freight over the years of all kinds, on all kinds of trucks, for all distances from local to across the country. I've shipped logs, lumber, sawdust, hay, corn, cattle, equipment, steel, you name it. In every case, on every load, my trucking contractor had the opportunity to make money. There is thing called a fuel surcharge that reimburses the trucker for high fuel prices. I pay it and pass it along to my customer receiving the freight. If the customer doesn't want to pay it, the load isn't sent. Anybody who is hauling someone else's freight who does not incorporate a fuel surcharge into his pricing structure is not running their business efficiently. If the shipper says here is what we'll pay, and you take it, that's your decision. Don't come crying to me if you don't make money.

Where the high fuel prices hurt is the company who handles some trucking themselves as part of their business operations and there is no easy way to asses a fuel surcharge. Say I haul logs from my logging job to my sawmill. That is where it hurts.

A couple weeks ago one of the TV talk show hosts interviewed a trucker who has about eight or ten trucks hauling eggs out of Ohio. The slant of the interview was that high fuel prices are killing family owned trucking companies. When the host asked the trucker if the shipper helped defray some of the cost of fuel he said that they were real good to work with and they were currently paying an $.84 / mile surcharge. That is on top of the regular freight charge. That more than pays for all the fuel, not just some. Right there I saw that this particular host was very disingenuos and I swore I would never watch him on TV or listen to his radio show again.

[farmerdoug]

The guys that are really getting hurt on the ones on contract.  I know one trucker that hauled new cars from Detriot to Grand Rapids for GM.  He did it for years but a couple of years ago when the diesel price was rising GM told their haulers that was their problem and that they were under contract.  He hauled at a loss through the end of his contract and then GM was shocked he would not resign with them. :

[fuzzybear]

As a former company owner and 15 year driver all I can say is....it will never happen.  They talk of strikes 2-3 times a year and nothing ever comes of it.   The main reason.....drivers have no official voice to speak for them.   Plus the fact that if you asked 10 drivers what they want out of the strike you will have 10 different answers.  In the 80's they had union voice...now the union won't back it.  The days of owner operators are coming to an end....VERY unfortunate for all of North America.
   The rules are stacked against drivers. DOT officers are allowed to work 100+ hours a week and then drive any where. A truck driver works 71 hours he/she is fined big money and made to sit where ever he/she happens to be pulled over.  Even if the house is 30 min away.
   I hung my driving saddle up 3 years ago and will never go back. logged 3,000,000+ miles in that time without an accident, but my insurance was raised 200% in 3 years...couldn't afford it any more.

[CLL]

I realize that we have had cheap fuel prices next to a lot of countries. The problem I have is the oil companies raping us on diesel fuel. Everyone knows that it takes half the refining for fuel as it does for gas. So why is fuel 75 cents a gallon more than gas, because the oil companies know that everything is moved by trucks, so they can get by with it. I would throw a fit if my pepsi didn't show up at the grocery store.

[johncinquo]

I read elsewhere that the problem is the fuel surcharge is not being passed on, either in whole, or at all, to the ones hauling the loads.  The freight brokers are collecting the surcharge, and either pulling their normal broker % out of it, or simply keeping it for themselves.  Many of the truckers are asking for better transparency in how the business operates.

As a "broker" myself, if I tried something like that I'd be out of business in a hurry. 

[cuttingman423]

I realize that we have had cheap fuel prices next to a lot of countries. The problem I have is the oil companies raping us on diesel fuel. Everyone knows that it takes half the refining for fuel as it does for gas. So why is fuel 75 cents a gallon more than gas, because the oil companies know that everything is moved by trucks, so they can get by with it. I would throw a fit if my pepsi didn't show up at the grocery store.

i have the same question when it comes to fuel oil  less refining to make it but i now pay 3.499 at Hutters Gas Station and regular unleaded is 3.299  it makes me sick  i bought my house 2 yrs ago and i was paying 1.599 for heating oil  more then doubled in 2 yrs.   I f they keep raping the American people  like this whats going to happen when we cant afford it   they lose $ and then they'll kick themselves in the butt   everything is going up except my pay at work now i understand why people turn to crime to make money.

[farmerdoug]

A barrel of oil can only be split so many ways.  A certain percentage will always be diesel and the same for gasoline.  You can shift the percentage one way or the other but there is a baseline you cannot pass below.  Diesel use to be produced at a greater amount than demand could use so the price was artifically low.  But now there is alot more of diesel pickups and semi's on the road now so the demand is pushing pass the supply.  They can produce more diesel but at the expense of gasoline production.  Plus if you look at the gas stations what is the ratio of gas to diesel pumps?  Gas has a larger buffer in storage and pipelines too.

I do not like the higher price either but remember that a gallon of diesel has more energy than a gallon of gasoline.  If you were selling firewood, what would you charge more for, pine/popular or oak/hickory?

[Ron Wenrich]

I wrote this on another thread.  The breakdown for the recovery of a barrel of oil is as follows:

Finished Motor Gasoline    51.4%
Distillate Fuel Oil    15.3%
Jet Fuel    12.3%
Still Gas    5.4%
Marketable Coke    5.0%
Residual Fuel Oil    3.3%
Liquefied Refinery Gas    2.8%
Asphalt and Road Oil    1.7%
Other Refined Products    1.5%
Lubricants    0.9%

Another site said that you get 7 gallons of diesel per barrel.

Other diesel uses include home heating, electrical production, shipping and rail fuel.  That's a lot of competition.  Seems like the marketplace is at work.

I work for truckers, and they laughed about the strike.  They said all that will happen is that you'll lose a day's work.  They do get concerned about guys throwing stuff off of bridges.

[crtreedude]

   ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

  tsk, tsk, tsk.   No es problema en Costa Rica  : ;D ;D ;D

Hey Harold! When we visited this zone of Costa Rica the first time, there was a tour bus strike because of the bad roads - and about 3 years ago there was a trucker strike here due to RETEVE (i.e. inspections)

Don't get too smug there Gringo... ;)

[Fla._Deadheader]

The strike is about FUEL prices, Fred. I don't HAVE that problem ???

[snowman]

I never knew that about diesel, the gallons per barrel thing. It makes sense that diesel would go up some as demand went up but I've also heard enviro standars for diesel changed and oil comps had to reformulate it and it supposidly cost more to make now,the cost is passed on to consumer.With reg gas at 3.40 and diesel at 4.15, maybe it's both.

[crtreedude]

The strike is about FUEL prices, Fred. I don't HAVE that problem ???

How so? You pay more than they do unless you have managed to go vegetable oil or something.

[Dave Shepard]

Let me start out by saying that along with owning a truck or two myself I have contracted out the trucking of thousands of loads of freight over the years of all kinds, on all kinds of trucks, for all distances from local to across the country. I've shipped logs, lumber, sawdust, hay, corn, cattle, equipment, steel, you name it. In every case, on every load, my trucking contractor had the opportunity to make money. There is thing called a fuel surcharge that reimburses the trucker for high fuel prices. I pay it and pass it along to my customer receiving the freight. If the customer doesn't want to pay it, the load isn't sent. Anybody who is hauling someone else's freight who does not incorporate a fuel surcharge into his pricing structure is not running their business efficiently. If the shipper says here is what we'll pay, and you take it, that's your decision. Don't come crying to me if you don't make money.

Where the high fuel prices hurt is the company who handles some trucking themselves as part of their business operations and there is no easy way to asses a fuel surcharge. Say I haul logs from my logging job to my sawmill. That is where it hurts.

A couple weeks ago one of the TV talk show hosts interviewed a trucker who has about eight or ten trucks hauling eggs out of Ohio. The slant of the interview was that high fuel prices are killing family owned trucking companies. When the host asked the trucker if the shipper helped defray some of the cost of fuel he said that they were real good to work with and they were currently paying an $.84 / mile surcharge. That is on top of the regular freight charge. That more than pays for all the fuel, not just some. Right there I saw that this particular host was very disingenuos and I swore I would never watch him on TV or listen to his radio show again.

Thank you. ;)


I don't know what low sulfur fuel is doing for MPG, but a friend of mine hauled granite curbing@99,500GCVW, he got an average of 6.5 MPG.  $.84/mile is paying some of the fuel on the back haul too. ;)



Dave

[Brian_Rhoad]

I have a Ford F350 Powerstroke. I used to get 15+ mpg towing on the interstate. I made a trip to Florida and got 10 mpg with the new uls diesel. Thats a 33% decrease in mileage just from the new diesel fuel. Some stations still sell the low sulfer diesel. I filled up with low sulfer and my mileage went back up to almost 15 mpg. Using 1/3 more fuel to get less emissions just does'nt make any sense. And on top of that, the new crappy fuel costs alot more. Add the higher cost and less mileage it's no wonder the truckers are upset.

[Polly]

 8) 8)   lets put the blame where it belongs epa backed by undle sam mandated the low sulfer diesel fuel and the sxhaust emissions on new diesel trucks the class 6 trucks which i am familar with the price went up from 35000 to over 50000 dollars with the introduction of the 2007 models and diesel fuel from 300 to 400 pr gal partly because of the low sulfer fuel i dont wnow the solution to problem but it makes me sick at my stomach to think all of this was not necary i wish ross pero would run again 

[snowman]

I run offroad diesel in my pickup. Cheaper and better. How often does that happen?

[Tom]

Florida DOT has taken the opportunity given by the high price of diesel to check for off-road diesel in over-the-road vehicles.   It's almost an excuse for them to go over the rest of the truck too.   If you are running red fuel on the road here, you get fines, penalties and then sent to the IRS where your audit schedules are made up for the next few years.  The intimidation, along with the fines, is enough to stop most of us from doing it. 

A couple of years ago, when we had diesel prices rising, they allowed the trucks to burn off-road fuel for a little while. I've not heard of this being offered now.  It's best to stay on the right side of the law even when they make it difficult to stay in business.

[Quartlow]

The only problem is truckers are like farmers, they complain about the prices they get but they still work away with the prices they are given. :

Doug hit the nail on the head. I never understood why owner operators would haul a cheap load just to go home. It used to tick me off when a broker would say, "well it takes you home".  >:(  >:( Sorry pal it cost the same to run the truck on the return leg as it did on the outbound leg.

Of course the term owner operator is a misnomer. I don't know an exact number, but a very high percentage of OO's go out buy a truck then lease on to a company. The company sets the pay rate, takes car of filing IFTA paperwork, very often you run on a company plate, pull a company trailer.
Thats not an Owner Operator. Thats a glorified company driver.

Anybody who is hauling someone else's freight who does not incorporate a fuel surcharge into his pricing structure is not running their business efficiently. If the shipper says here is what we'll pay, and you take it, that's your decision. Don't come crying to me if you don't make money.

Where the high fuel prices hurt is the company who handles some trucking themselves as part of their business operations and there is no easy way to asses a fuel surcharge. Say I haul logs from my logging job to my sawmill. That is where it hurts.

You don't need a fuel surcharge on hauling your own product. When you price the product figure in the cost of running the truck. If  you can't fix the cost of hauling the logs yourself contract it out so you have a fixed cost. My brother wants to cut some logs off of his property next winter.
Theres no way I'm hauling the logs 45 miles with my pickup and a goose neck trailer. Not when his neighbor has a log truck and said he would move them for $170 a load. I would have paid $200 to get them hauled. What he can haul in one 2 hour round trip would take me a day and a half

I read elsewhere that the problem is the fuel surcharge is not being passed on, either in whole, or at all, to the ones hauling the loads.  The freight brokers are collecting the surcharge, and either pulling their normal broker % out of it, or simply keeping it for themselves.  Many of the truckers are asking for better transparency in how the business operates.

As a "broker" myself, if I tried something like that I'd be out of business in a hurry. 

Brokers have been doing that for years, very seldom that they get caught. When my Brother, nephews and I hauled local iron we worked for as many as 20 or more different brokers in any given week. We got paid by the weight, So much for every hundred pounds. We worked out of a building that housed 35 different brokers. competition for the local freight was stiff. You could walk into Broker A's office and get offered a load out of LTV to Carnegie that paid $.50 a hundred.  Buy the time you walked the loop you could find that same load from 8 different brokers ranging from $.50 to $.85 You know darn well that if LTV could get it moved for $.50 cents from broker A they sure weren't going to give the load to Broker B $.85

As a former company owner and 15 year driver all I can say is....it will never happen.  They talk of strikes 2-3 times a year and nothing ever comes of it.   The main reason.....drivers have no official voice to speak for them.   Plus the fact that if you asked 10 drivers what they want out of the strike you will have 10 different answers.  In the 80's they had union voice...now the union won't back it.  The days of owner operators are coming to an end....VERY unfortunate for all of North America.
   The rules are stacked against drivers. DOT officers are allowed to work 100+ hours a week and then drive any where. A truck driver works 71 hours he/she is fined big money and made to sit where ever he/she happens to be pulled over.  Even if the house is 30 min away.
   I hung my driving saddle up 3 years ago and will never go back. logged 3,000,000+ miles in that time without an accident, but my insurance was raised 200% in 3 years...couldn't afford it any more.

I can agree with all of that but one thing. OO numbers will diminish in the future but Owner operators will never go away. Too many things that big companies won't do. I doubt you will ever see Scheinder or JB hauling grain out of the field. I doubt you will ever see them running Alaska out of the lower 48 either. The ones that will survive are the ones smart enough to run on their own authority and make their own market. 

My buddy is a prime example. People call him for stone, he gives them his price and once in a while you get one that says that Acme or R&J will deliver it for less, He tells them call Acme then. Yeah he hauls less. But he gets his price.

[ely]

in past history the government has always put a freeze on the price of fuel while this country was at war. why not now? i believe that we have to hit rock bottom before the economy will start to rebuild from the ground up. as fast as they are bankrupting the nation it should not be too long in the future.

[snowman]

Carter tried price controls, remember those gas lines? That doesn't work but maybe gov taking tax off diesel a while, especially for trucks would help.

[beenthere]

Carter tried price controls, remember those gas lines? That doesn't work but maybe gov taking tax off diesel a while, especially for trucks would help.

Get ready for more taxes, not less, if the political game being played out now is any indication of things to come.

As long as the demand for a fuel stays high, the prices will stay high, IMO.

[LEES WOODCO]

Florida DOT has taken the opportunity given by the high price of diesel to check for off-road diesel in over-the-road vehicles.   It's almost an excuse for them to go over the rest of the truck too.   If you are running red fuel on the road here, you get fines, penalties and then sent to the IRS where your audit schedules are made up for the next few years.  The intimidation, along with the fines, is enough to stop most of us from doing it. 

A couple of years ago, when we had diesel prices rising, they allowed the trucks to burn off-road fuel for a little while. I've not heard of this being offered now.  It's best to stay on the right side of the law even when they make it difficult to stay in business.

Here in NY state DOT must watch the newspapers for farm auctions because they are known to set up a check down the road and dip every diesel pickup truck passing.

[ely]

with all the billions of barrels of oil we have in the reserves you will never get me to believe the price is based on supply and demand.
all the prez has to do is open the oil reserves, then you would see the price go back to normal.

imo having the oil price over 100 dollars a barrel while the economy is in the crapper is very much akin to selling plywood @ 300 dollars a sheet.

[snowman]

Strategic oil reserves is for extreme situation not to ease fuel prices. If mideast blows up and the oil stops flowing for a while, you will be glad Bush resisted calls to dip into our emergency supply.

[crtreedude]

Correct, a reserve is to have a cushion in times of trouble. To use it now would be like a family having savings and dipping into it to make things more comfortable - and then wondering why they were in such desperate problems when they lost their job.

[Polly]

 8) 8)   lift the epa refinibg spec the fuel would get better and refining cost would go down on diesel as well as gas we could probly import from other countries at half the price if the emmision spec was lifted it ant going to happen to meny politicans getting their pockets fetthered  :( :( :( 8)

[DouginUtah]

The strategic petroleum reserve has a capacity of 727 MILLION barrels, and currently has 700 million barrels, two-thirds of which is heavy, sour crude. This is enough to supply our needs for about 57 days if our imports were cut off.

I don't know what normal is.  Except for a few seasonal blips, the price of gas/diesel will never be lower than it is now. My guess is that it will increase on average about 50¢ a gallon every year. It would be more except soon a lot of the demand will be destroyed by our inability to buy it.

:(

[Warbird]

 

[Gary_C]

If you are feeling pain at the pump, you are not alone. Our military in Iraq is paying more for fuel than we pay at home. And we are paying $10.3 billion per month to keep them there.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080403/D8VQ6N2O0.html

[ely]

i am going to go ahead and say the we as a country will be like that family that has fell on hard times, if the oil companies do not stop raveging the country for the almighty dollar.
some say this economy is based on gold
some say it is based on oil.
one thing for sure is when it cost the working majority more to drive to work each week than they are making we will not last much longer.

but hey look on the bright side, our 600 dollar tax break should be here next month and all will be better. :

[snowman]

If you use 100 gallons of gas a month and apply your 600 bucks to your gas bill that takes 50 cents a gallon off your gas price. Thats looking at the bright side.

[johncinquo]

Strategic oil reserves is for extreme situation not to ease fuel prices. If mideast blows up and the oil stops flowing for a while, you will be glad Bush resisted calls to dip into our emergency supply.

if the mideast blows up (gee we can all dream)  we just TAKE the oil, like we should have done already.  Oil hits $50 a barrel and we all go back to driving SUVs and pickup trucks.   Still trying to figure that one out, war over oil? war over tyranny? war over oppression? WMD?  

[Tom]

I don't find it difficult to find it a War against terror, even now.  It was never a war against Iraq, but rather a war to get rid of Sadam.  He was harboring terrorists and they have still infiltrated Iraq and made it their headquarters even after he was hanged.  Anything we do now is to bolster the Iraqi government and army to be able to do the job themselves.   I'm a believer in that.

[PawNature]

I just came from a meeting with the trucking company I work for a few minutes ago. They announced that they were closing 4 terminals. I work out of the Cincinnati terminal which will be closing, also closing are Concord, NC., Atlanta, GA., and Memphis. Fortunately thought as a road driver I will still have a job with them. All local driver and most of the regional drivers are gone.

[Ron Wenrich]

Is this due to higher fuel costs or from less freight to haul?  I know that both are factors, since higher fuel causes higher hauling costs which causes less demand. 

[OneWithWood]

Is this due to higher fuel costs or from less freight to haul?  I know that both are factors, since higher fuel causes higher hauling costs which causes less demand. 

And less marginal income leads to less discretionary spending which leads to less production which leads to less need to ship stuff.

[Furby]

A local food pantry was on the news I belive last week.
They were saying how private donations were waaaay down and how a lot of the folks that were donors in the past are now seeking help due to the lack of jobs and falling economy.
However, the pantry wasn't as bad off as it could be as donations from over stocked stores and factories that had too much inventory were coming in left and right.
The stores weren't selling as much due too folks not being able to afford it.
The factories had to slow production due to less sales to the stores, meaning they may not need as many workers and not as many truck loads of product was being shipped.

One big circle. :-\

[Polly]

 8) 8)    my openion is new trucking co starting up and bidding freight rates that dont even cover price of fuel just look around about of old companies have gone under the new ones will run until the banks forclose and the cycle starts all over again bush gets his way and lets mexican trucks run all over the usa we all will be out of business and off line wqe wont be able to pay electric bill :( :( :( 8) 8)