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Author Topic: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?  (Read 10242 times)

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Offline LOGDOG

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Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« on: March 10, 2008, 08:28:24 pm »
Hey Everyone,

   Have a question for those of you out there that may be in the know. I'm looking at purchasing a motor to power the Edger I just bought. I'm thinking 24 H.P. +/-. So I'm looking through a catalog last night and I notice that there is a significant difference in price between the Honda motors and the Briggs and Kohler motors. The Honda being significantly less money than the other two.

   My question is: Why the big difference in price? Is the Honda lacking something that the other have? Big horsepower difference in the power curve? Or is it just a value? Every Honda I've had the opportunity to operate (with the exception of one) has been a gem. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks as always.  :)

LOGDOG

Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 09:25:35 pm »
If you are going to run an edger remember, 5HP for every inch of cut. Reason I know this is I have an edger, new to me, not up to speed yet and a 24 hp motor won't do it.
Bill

Offline Haytrader

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 09:38:48 pm »
Since you asked.
I have had all three mentioned power sources and cast my vote for the Honda. It surprises me that it is priced lower than the others.
All will start and run if well maintained with clean air and gas.
It has been my experience that a Honda will start and run easier even if you do not take the best of care of it.
I have used them all on pumps, bale elevators, sprayers and the sawmills.
Haytrader

Offline isawlogs

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2008, 09:40:22 pm »
If those are the only engins brands in the hat , I would get a Kohler because it will start better in the cold , Honda in that HP range , some of there models have cold weather issues .....  ::)  Guess that dont really apply here does it   :-X ???  

   Then get the Honda ....  Myself , I would get a Onan .


If you are going to run an edger remember, 5HP for every inch of cut. Reason I know this is I have an edger, new to me, not up to speed yet and a 24 hp motor won't do it.

   I don't undersdtand this , I have an edger made by Enercraft ( now Baker ) That is run by a 11 HP Honda with no power shortage. It is maxed out at a two inche cut though , anything thicker I would be edging on the mill anyway .
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2008, 09:48:15 pm »
Marcel, I was quoting what I have read here several times.

The edger I have is an old American, about 1910 issue, pretty sure the feed rate is different than yours. I would guess this where the HP issue comes in.
Bill

Offline fencerowphil (Phil L.)

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2008, 09:48:29 pm »
I am glad that the Honda 24h.p. is a good buy, since that is what my swinger has.

When I looked at the power and torque rating on the Honda, I realized that it is precisely
matched to the rpm on my Peterson.  I bet that this is a factor to consider, and is one which
a good equipment designer must consider.  Of course, I had nothing to do with Carl Peterson's
choice, but it seems to have been a good one.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Offline LOGDOG

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2008, 10:03:56 pm »
Thanks guys.

   WH_Conley ... my initial thought on yours was "feed rate/ old edger". Do you have the big wheels on the side with the flat belt running down under the arborand over the wheels? Brings back memories for me. Wish I had the Forum back then. Sighhh ...

    Isawlogs ...Onan is an excellent motor. I've had them on several of my WoodMizers with problems only on one. It had a defective low oil sensor and it blew a total of three times before the service guy caught it. Onan bought me a new one.  ;D Other than that no complaints.

   I see lots of the newer edgers out there running the 24 HP+/- range motors on them - WoodMizer did too for a while. Didn't think it could be too bad if WoodMizer did it. I guess on this machine I can control the feed rate so that will likely help on loading the motor.

LOGDOG

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2008, 10:25:36 pm »
There's another option.  I put a kawasaki 25 hp on my woodmizer to replace a tired old briggs. It's liquid cooled, weighs about the same as the briggs, comes with cooling system. I like it.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Offline LOGDOG

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2008, 10:34:09 pm »
Pineywoods,

   Height is a bit of a factor as the motor is mounted up under the machine. There's a bit of a cage that it has to be able to fit in. How tall is that Kawasakifrom the bottom of the base plate to it's highest point?

LOGDOG

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2008, 10:45:20 pm »
Pineywoods,

   Height is a bit of a factor as the motor is mounted up under the machine. There's a bit of a cage that it has to be able to fit in. How tall is that Kawasakifrom the bottom of the base plate to it's highest point?

LOGDOG

The kaw is a V-twin so it's probably about the same, maybe a little less, no need for big cooling fins. I'll measure and get back to you. I do know that the crank shaft sits bout an inch lower than the briggs.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Offline LOGDOG

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2008, 11:06:47 pm »
Thanks Pineywoods,

   I wanted to ask you where you found that Kawasaki and how did your up/down motor handle the extra weight of that motor. I'm guessing it weighed a bit more with the cooling pack and such. I've had half a mind to take the 24 HP Onan off my mill which runs just fine - put it on the edger, and then put something like a 38 HP Kohler back on the mill where I could feel the HP difference. I can't really complain as it is but I guess we all dream about "more power" right?  ;D


LOGDOG

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2008, 12:11:00 am »
We had Kohler v-twins on our commercial lawn mowers, and they were very trouble free. The company, Scag, has since switched to liquid cooled Kawasakis, which are very cold blooded, but good motors. I had a 17HP air cooled Kawi twin on my mower, and it's still going strong today. I vote Honda, they always seem to start first pull, we've been very pleased with them over the years.

I think 24HP should work on the edger, it depends on the feed speed though. Our edger is 10 electric, and I couldn't even get it's attention with both blades in 12/4 oak. Feed is 20.95fpm.


Dave
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Offline Captain

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2008, 06:50:44 am »
I'm a firm believer that the Kohler is the best engine in the Northern States due to the Honda's cold weather issues.  The Honda is a fine engine when maintained will serve for years in your Lousiana climate.

Captain

Online Corley5

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2008, 07:58:52 am »
I've got two Hondas.  A 24hp on the firewood processor and a 5.5 on the loading conveyor.  Both are very good engines.  The 24 has close to five hundred hours with no issues other than some surging at idle now and then which I've been told caused by some crap in the carb.  It works out after a while ;) :)  It did flood the crankcase with gas once but that had something to do with running it when it was an even 0 degrees F  ::) ;D  It always starts and goes right to work.  When it comes time to replace it I'm going to look at something that's at least fuel injected and probably liquid cooled too.  This the first winter I've had the 5.5 and it's a good little engine but doesn't start as easy below 15 degrees.  The 6.5hp Chinese Honda clone on the old elevator starts better.
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Offline Chet

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2008, 10:46:20 am »
I fired up my mill for da first time last week since last fall ta cut a mantle. Da temp was a balmy -14°F and my 13HP Honda fired up on da second pull.  :)  Surprised me, 'cause it normally only takes 1 pull.  ;)





I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the arborist

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2008, 12:39:01 pm »
I was unaware of the cold weather issures. I borrowed a metavic trailer that had a Honda to run the log loader, and it always started first pull, regardless of temp or if it had been sitting covered in snow for a couple of months. Of course, temp may not be a problem down there. How much cold weather do you get in LA, LOGDOG?


Dave
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Offline Timburr

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2008, 03:51:55 pm »

My question is: Why the big difference in price?

It's more to do with economy of scale.  For every 100 motors made by Kohler and Briggs, Honda make a 1,000.  Although there are plenty of Kohlers here in Europe, Briggs  are less common.  Every other small modern industrial/ agricultural machine here is powered by Honda.   I can imagine every country on earth has some Honda power.  The same cannot be said for Briggs or Kohler!
Sense is not common

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2008, 04:25:09 pm »
Honda seems to be a favorite brand here. I would also suggest Kabota. Briggs and Tecumsa takes a lot of cranking to get running in my experience.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline isawlogs

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2008, 05:24:05 pm »

 Cold issue starting is on the 22, 24 hp twin cylinders , the single cylinders are not a cold worried motor , they will start no matter how cold it is or how long they have been sitting there.    ;)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Offline LOGDOG

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Re: Small Engines - Honda vs. Briggs and Kohler?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2008, 07:08:59 pm »
I was unaware of the cold weather issures. I borrowed a metavic trailer that had a Honda to run the log loader, and it always started first pull, regardless of temp or if it had been sitting covered in snow for a couple of months. Of course, temp may not be a problem down there. How much cold weather do you get in LA, LOGDOG?


Dave

Not so much cold weather down here Dave. Although we got 3" of snow the other day which was the most I've seen in 7 years here - cumulatively. It'll get down to 20 or so now and then. Usually by 10:00 a.m. it's above 30 in the coldest times of the year.

Timburr, I didn't realize the scale of Honda's production. That's a big positive in my book. Seems like parts availabilty should be excellent wherever one would go.

LOGDOG