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Steel plates for making trusses

Started by Dave Shepard, February 22, 2008, 11:27:10 PM

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Radar67

Dave, I use 7/16 inch, glued and nailed on all trusses I build. Got several truss projects coming up. :)
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

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Dave Shepard

What kind of glue? Some sort of polyurethane construction adhesive, I presume? Thanks.
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Radar67

I use plain old yellow wood glue. Protect it from moisture until the sheathing is on and it works fine. I use saran wrap (the cheap kind) to protect it until covered. Squirt the glue out of the bottle and brush it out with a cheap bristle paint brush. Clean the brush with soapy water and it is ready for the next time.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Gary_C

The reference most people use is:

http://www.mwps.org/

They do have a reference book for glued trusses, MWPS 9 I believe that answers your questions and has complete plans for all different sizes of trusses including materials, loads, construction methods, etc. Costs $7.00.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

sawmilllawyer

Built the trusses to salvage a building to use as a small work shop with yellow wood glue, I think it was Titebond. Since it was inside I did not use the water proof type glue. That was 14 years ago still standing. After reading this thread, hate to admit it but used 7/16 plywood patches and a bunch of clip head framing nails. Probably should have torn the old mess down and built a larger building, sure is cramped now. Come to think of it seems it has always been kinda cramped in there.
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farmerdoug

Dave,  Up here in the snow belt, we use 3/4 decking plywood with construction adhesive(the kind in big tubes put down between the joists and sub floor plywood).  I always figure it is easier to over do than to redo. ::) :)
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
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Fargo, MI

zopi

I try to avoid using ply...for pretty much the same reasons...bloody expensive, akward to handle,
I have a mill..plus..there is a certain comfort in working with solid wood, it's more natural, even
when the tree is dead, the wood still breathes and moves...its still a part of life...seems more real to me.

I'll use it if I have to...but I just took some 100 year old siding off a building..solid pine...nail some
ply up against a wall and leave it for 100 years..see what you get.

I will not use MDF flake board any of that crap...hate working it. I too realize that it's made from waste..if that's so it oughta be cheaper..plus that waste is the 1/2" a side they rob you of when you buy the 2x4 behind it...sorry.. the 1.5x3.5....

or maybe its that I was stuck with it for so long and now I have access to decent wood...:D

Oh..on topic..tried to use the spiky plates once...pain in the butt...I wound up using nailer plates...like those.
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Dave Shepard

Thanks all. I was thinking I'd use the construction adhesive in the caulk gun type tubes. I can borrow a stick nailer for the job. I guess I have a pretty good game plan now. I'll make a pattern for the plywood plates and make a ton of them.

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Larry

Manufactures of PVA (most yellow and white glues) always have a big disclaimer that it's not for structural purpose due to I think creep.  They also require clamping for a proper bond and will not fill gaps.  I suppose they will work fine...until you test the structure to its design limits.

I use Leech F-26 in the big tubes.  Not sure if its superior to other brands...I'm positive its not any cheaper.

Dave, you can go by just about any construction site and gather plenty of OSB out of the dumpster for your webs.  I use a big router with a pattern bit to make the webs...trim on the outside and let the inside go wild.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

logwalker

Dave, I would not use the tube of construction glue. I have used a lot of glue over the years and have taken lots of things apart too. The construction adhesive is good for stopping squeaks in a floor but does not come close to bonding as well as yellow wood glue. It drys out after a few years and lose most of its bond. I bought the book for $7 from Midwest Plan Service and it was very clear about which glue to use (yellow waterproof). As far as applying the glue just use a small roller and tray. No clamping is necessary, the nails take care of that. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Dave Shepard

Is there a brand name for the glue, one of the Titebond series perhaps? I know there has been some discussion about creep, as Larry mentioned. I'm guessing I'll be buying it in gallons. ;D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Radar67

Dave, I'm using titebond. I was unaware of the structural warning, but intend to keep using the glue. If nailed properly, it should hold up structurally. I have not had any problems so far. Of course, I over build too.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Dodgy Loner

Dave, my dad and I are about to build some trusses for a pole barn, and we'll be using Titebond III.  It's stronger than plain yellow glue and completely waterproof.  It's a little more expensive, but it shouldn't add too much cost to the building and it will add a lot of strength.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Larry

Second sentence under limitations.

"Not for structural or load bearing applications. "

Titebond lll Ultimate Wood Glue

Several years ago I call Titebond technical support and asked what glue to use for truss gussets.  The answer was Titebond Heavy Duty Construction Adhesive.  The guy went into a bunch of reasons most of which were over my head.

Construction Adhesives

I've called several times with other questions concerning there products...they have always been friendly and given what I thought was good info.  So...give them a call if you have a question.  If you find PVA glue can be used for structural purposes I would like to know...I have a little project coming up that I would be ideal for it.




Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Dodgy Loner

Thanks, Larry.  We may have to look into the construction adhesives.  I know that my grandad has two pole barns that have been standing for 30 and 40 years, and he used regular old yellow wood glue.  So I guess PVA can be used for structural purposes, even if it's not the best option.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Radar67

When you get right down to it, I don't think the glue is really needed to make the truss structural, look at how many trusses are built with Simpson Strong Tie metal plates, with either nails or the press in type. I've seen many apartment complexes and commercial building built with just those. I've also seen buildings go up with just plywood gussets nailed in place, some have been standing for over 20 years.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

stonebroke


srt

Yes, they say there is a "creep" associated with PVA (titebond) type glues.  However, I've never actually experienced it.  I've built structural curved stuff that's been under load using PVA and not had a problem.  However, I did have fasteners in it.  I've made plenty of half round and elliptical window and door jambs that were pva glued up laminations and as far as I know, none of them have come apart. 

I believe  resorcinol glue is one product that's recommended for what you're doing.  However, I really think you'll be fine with just nailed gussets. 

Years ago, they would lay out chalk lines and cleats on house subfloors and build the trusses right at the house they were building.  Just cut all pieces, lay the main members  against the cleats, fill in with the braces which act to tighten the main pieces against the cleats.  Lay on the gussets and nail them off.  Pull up and turn over the truss and put gussets on the other side.  My dad said that's how he did it, and I don't remember him mentioning glue.

When I built some scissors trusses a few years ago, I used construction adhesive and 5/8 plywood and nails and staples.   I have not had the same experience as Joe (Logwalker) with construction adhesive, but I've honestly got to say that I've never looked for it loosing it's adhesion after a few years.  You can bet I'll think about it the next time I pull something apart that has it on it.  Joe's given me something to think about there, and I imagine he's correct, and I have just never noticed it.   That roof is over my head right now, and there hasn't been a bit of movement  in it that I can tell by observing paint lines, sheetrock, trim etc. 

I think you'll be OK using any adhesive you wish as long as you use plenty of fasteners.

One thing about nail guns.  They tend not to pull two pieces of wood together like driving a nail with a hammer does.  So, if you notice this, just finish driving home the first few gun driven nails with a hammer to draw the boards together and then nail away to your hearts content with the gun.

logwalker

My experience has been with sub-floor adhesive which is the most common found in large tubes around here. It is not doing much except filling a gap to stop squeaks. The true construction varieties might work a lot better. As to the creep issue, if there are sufficient nails the short periods of maximum load should not be a problem.

When we did ours we laid one out on the plywood floor and built it. Secured it to the floor with a few nails and then built the rest on top , one at a time, flipped them and finished the nailing on the other side. We marked one end and kept them oriented the same direction and raised them with Genie-lifts. Very easy and thrifty too. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Dave Shepard

I've been sawing out some white pine dimensional lumber for projects around the farm. I'm sawing a 2x6 as 1 5/8 x 5 5/8, thinking it will shrink pretty close to finish dimension. This is for use in existing structures to match finished lumber. Would white pine work for making trusses, or should I mill some hemlock?
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beenthere

Dave
If it shrinks 1/8" in thickness, why wouldn't it shrink 3/8" in width?
Seems you'd go with a bit wider width rough-green target measure.

The knot structure of the two softwoods might have the biggest effect on your choice of species for the truss members.  Those white pine whorls of limbs every couple feet can be killers when strength of member is concerned.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Dave Shepard

To tell you the truth beenthere, I wasn't thinking too far ahead at the time. How much should they shrink? They haven't shrunk at all in the two months since they were milled. Maybe I should just mill them at 1.5 and 5.5? I don't know.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

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