Moved: Questions for Timber Framing

[Jim_Rogers]

I moved this thread by request from a user and I felt it was right to start a new thread for these questions.
Jim Rogers

Originally posted by: Clouserts



Hi guys, this is a new question about timber framing:


We used to sell a good portion of our lumber as pine 2 x's for studs and house or barn building.  We have also sawed out a complete post and beam assortment for a neighbor who built his own timber-frame house.

But all of that was before our township adopted the BOCA code - national builders code for everything in our area.  Our permit inspector will not allow rough cut lumber from sawmills to be used on any construction except on an agricultural building -- I think there is an exemption for that.

Are some of you finding reduced sales as a result of building codes not allowing rough-cut lumber?  I believe there is some outfit in Mass. or Maine or some "M" state that will come out and engineer-stamp your sawmill lumber so that it passes, but I'm sure that costs more than it is worth for us here in PA.

Your thoughts?

[Dave Shepard]

Here in Mass, we can get a stamp for native lumber. It is not a grade stamp, just a stamp that leads back to the mill that produces it, for liability purposes. There is a discussion in the sawmill board somewhere about it. We are allowed to use native lumber in two story dwellings, outbuildings, and agricultural buildings. Your building inspector should be able to tell you if there is a native lumber law for your state. It is not uncommon for inspectors to shy away from allowing native lumber, so you may have to research and assert your rights, if you have any, yourself.


Dave

[Don P]

you may have to research and assert your rights, if you have any, yourself

We have none here. If the inspector requests we must provide a gradestamp or certificate from the grader. Some states do have exemptions. NY,NH and NC are a few that I can think of with various exemptions.
You probably have come under ICC codes rather than BOCA. BOCA/CABO, SBCCI,and UBC all got together and had a baby called the IBC of which the IRC or International Residential Code is one part. When these three model codes came together, enforcement in many areas got stricter. The grading requirement had been on the books here for decades, it became enforced when the codes blended. NeLma, TP and SPIB are common east coast grading agencies with travelling graders that can come check a load for you.

[KnotBB]

I believe the UBC calls for graded lumber OR EQUIVALENT.  Most building inspectors don't know a board from a beam and don't want to learn.  They can read a grade stamp though.

Out here in Oregon building inspections are done by the county officials and some will accept none graded lumber in an owner built home, but most won't.  Takes too much time as they have to look at every board.
And building permits have become a profit center for local governments.
But you can go down to the local Home Depot, buy a Stud grade board that they used to burn because it wouldn't meet grade, build your house, put your family in it and be safe because it has a grade stamp!  Go figure!   :(
Grading is available from either of two grading bureaus for $350/day + travel time with half days available.  Wood has to be laid out to best use the time the grader is there.  I can see where that might be a deal if your grading timbers but not commodity wood. 

I think that we need to talk to the County Officials about supporting the local economy and small business people that vote  They'll never hear us talking about wanting to sell a 2 x 4 but they might hear about keeping the the money at home, supporting diversity in the wood industry and small businesses. 

My understanding of the UBC is it has exceptions that allow thing to be built without a grade stamp.  Decks, porches, and other outside structures.  Things that are not living spaces.  Hey maybe even garages and car ports?

Steve

[Don P]

For us none of those structures can be built with ungraded lumber. We have in the last few years gotten a pamphlet of new, much more stringent, deck codes. This is the result of multiple fatalities related to deck collapses. I tried to talk to our local state rep and the deputy director of our state's inspectors about using native lumber. Even had a meeting and grading class for the regional inspectors. They do not care to accept the percieved work and liability when they can shuck it off on a grading agency. I can see that.

The "or equivalent" is explained in the "alternative materials" section. There is still the option of the inspector to ask for testing or grading by an independent third party of his choosing, at your expense.

It would take education and organization to change this. We were not born with the ability to assess a piece of wood's strength, most people think they know, most do not, and are frankly too lazy to learn how. People do not seem to "get it" until the beam cracks over their head. That is how we end up with laws that protect the public. So far we have not as a group shown much more than a strong desire to complain when personally affected but no real desire to actually come together as a group, become competent, and audit ourselves. Until something changes there the situation will remain as it is. And no, inspectors cannot even read the grade stamp with any level of understanding. We are getting buildings designed for one grade of lumber and built with another. I can only assume that in a bad storm the ink is going to hold the buildings up.

[KnotBB]

This from Oregon Laws:

Alternative materials, design and methods of construction and equipment. The
provisions of this code are not intended to prevent the installation of any material or to prohibit
any design or method of construction not specifically prescribed by this code, provided that any
such alternative has been approved. An alternative material, design or method of construction
shall be approved where the building official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory and
complies with the intent of the provisions of this code, and that the material, method or work
offered is, for the purpose intended, at least the equivalent of that prescribed in this code in
quality, strength, effectiveness, fire resistance, durability and safety.

It also says that "testing" can be required at no expense to the inspecting agency and personal liability is transfered to the agency not the inspector.

They just don't want to go there.