iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Planer Decision

Started by tim1234, February 01, 2008, 06:14:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

tim1234

I know planers have been discussed at length in other posts.  I did a search and read them, or at least most of them.

I have an old Delta 22-540 grey box planer.  It has worked well for the last 10 years except for the 4 to 6" of snipe I get on both ends of every board.  I have a ton of white oak and ash to plane and to take a 1/32" of an inch at a time off all the lumber, I'll be there till 2020!

I've looked at all the usual suspects for 15" planers: Jet, Delta, Powermatic and Grizzly.  Grizzly hands down has the best price.  Woodcraft told me the only differecene between all the planers is the quality of the castings etc.   All "American" woodworking equipment is made in China and the reason they all look so similar is because the designers keep jumping from company to company and so the designs become very similar.

Anyway, I've come down to the 3 following Possibilities:

:) G0453 - standard 3 knife cutterhead
:) G0453Z - G0453 with a spiral cutterhead.
:) G01021X2 Extreme Series - better spiral cutterhead (more like a shelix).

All have a 3 hp 220 V motor. 

The G01021 is just a couple hundred more than the Jet 15" with a standard cutterhead!

Obviously you get what you pay for, but there seems to be a lot of satisfied Grizzly customers out there.  Are there any reasons not to go with a Grizzly.  I'm having a hard time justiying going with a Jet based on a store's comment that the castings are better on the Jet and ending up with a standard cutterhead with knives that cost $150 per set.

Any help, especially with anyone who has one of the planers above.  Or other Gizzly planers.

Thanks

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

Don_Papenburg

I looked at a lot of planers before I rebuilt my 16" Tywon Built.
The kiker was the epensive POwermatic 15" was almost an exact copy .
I bought mine from Harbor Freight  back in th e early 80s 
Grizzly has been a stickler for quality  for a long time now .
They were a front runner till i decided to rebuild.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

metalspinner

I'm looking at the Grizzley 20" with spiral, too. :)  I am anxious to hearing other's comments as well.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

pineywoods

Woodmaster---american made, loads of options available, and they honor their warranties. Factory support is excellent.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

SwampDonkey

Without me looking, what is the price? I have a Trademaster (Home Hardware branding) 12" planer. For what I do it was well worth the investment. Sure you get a little scalping on the ends, but I manage this wisely. I don't cut to length the pieces I'm planing.  You end up trimming the ends of the boards anyway for checking. Wood checks weather it's kilned or not. But if I was going to do a large volume of planing I would not skimp on a good planer. I wouldn't worry about the blade cost too much, they last a long time. My cheapy planer has lasted 15 years without replacement. So take it from there. Well you guys have seen some of the stuff I've been building. I guess it must be my Scottish tight wad blood. :D :D You guys have more $$ to toss around the camp fire than I do. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

tim1234

Quote from: pineywoods on February 01, 2008, 08:10:40 PM
Woodmaster---american made, loads of options available, and they honor their warranties. Factory support is excellent.

I just looked at the woodmaster site.  Dual motors; a feed motor (doesn't list the HP) and a 5 or 7 HP motor of the cutterhead.  Already sounds too expensive.  I don't need a planer/moulder and I wouldn't doubt this is a good machine, just not what I'm looking for. 

It is good to know something is still made in the US though  :)

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

tim1234

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 01, 2008, 08:18:11 PM
Without me looking, what is the price? I have a Trademaster (Home Hardware branding) 12" planer. For what I do it was well worth the investment. Sure you get a little scalping on the ends, but I manage this wisely. I don't cut to length the pieces I'm planing.  You end up trimming the ends of the boards anyway for checking.

The Delta 22-540 is pretty similar to the Trademaster I believe.  The older Delta's are known for thier ability to snipe.  I've got 2000 bd ft of WO and 400 bd ft of Ash.  No way I'm gonna tackle that with a box planer.  My wife will see me in 20 years.  The little Delta has planed a lot of material in the last 15 years and leaves a good finish.  Just too slow and too much snipe.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 01, 2008, 08:18:11 PM
But if I was going to do a large volume of planing I would not skimp on a good planer.

I don't want to skimp either.  I don't want another box planer just to eliminate the snipe.  I've looked at the Dewalt, but that is just a beefed up hobby planer and I've heard mixed reviews.  The feed rollers get covered with shavings and slip, the knives are expensive and don't last long...

Don't need an industrial planer.  That leaves the Jet, Powermatic, Steel City, Grizzly sized models.  Ive got to plane down enough for projects and to trim out my entire second floor.  That's a lot of stock.

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

SwampDonkey

Tim, I guess your doing all you can do by asking and reading reviews. That's what I would do also. I'm just a hobby wood worker myself so I don't tend to buy too many high end tools. I don't sell my projects, but who knows. Some day a guy has to clean out the closet or just keep wading through the muddle. It hasn't come to that yet, but I have a lot more wood to get artistic with.  :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Radar67

Tim, I got the Grizzly 0477 for Christmas. I've run a few boards through it and am well pleased with the finish. Not snipe so far. The planer is well built and heavy. It has a few nice features as well, like an onboard dust collector, power up/down, and a molder capability. It has chain drive for the up/down controls, and adjustable feed rollers.

I also have a 14 inch bandsaw from Grizzly that is just as heavy and well built. I have been pleased with both.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Ironwood

A non profit recycled building material store I sit on the Board of, bought a Grizzly 20" spiral insert head for reclaimed flooring. They LOVE it. Great unit good price and While I don't have Grizzly in my shop (Oliver, older Powermatic, Northfield, AMERICAN iron snob that I am) it is good stuff. I had a Grizzly shaper back inthe early 90's and it was good then , and they have only gotten better. Someday they be the only company left standing. That said, their parts obsolenence is fairly short, 5 years or so before parts are unavailable, at least on some random things I looked into on that matter.


                Go for it! Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

metalspinner

Speaking of parts...

A friend mentioned to me that he purchased a used grizzly machine out of the local paper.  He also purchased a new bandsaw through Gizzley.  The used machine needed a replacement part, but Grizzley would not sell him the parts because he was not the original owner.  Has anyone else had this trouble?  That just does not sound right. :-\  If this is a real policy then used Grizzley equipment would really be devalued.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

SwampDonkey

Yeah that doesn't sound right. Why would they refuse a sale on parts? Maybe the guy couldn't get the parts locally at a dealer and the dealer was one of those 'I'll order it right away' types that never order the parts. We have a few of those around here. They do say they only warrant for one year with the original customer.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Norm

I've had the Grizzly G1033X 20" 5 HP Spiral Cutterhead Planer for over a year now and wouldn't go back to anything less. It is quiet, stable, well built and does a darn good job planing. My only complaint is the dust port is done poorly but if you use enough vacuum it does fine.

Grizzly is required to sell replacement parts for their equipment and not only to the original owner. If they are truly doing this there's a federal agency that would like to know.

tim1234

Quote from: Norm on February 02, 2008, 10:34:40 AM
I've had the Grizzly G1033X 20" 5 HP Spiral Cutterhead Planer for over a year now and wouldn't go back to anything less. It is quiet, stable, well built and does a darn good job planing. My only complaint is the dust port is done poorly but if you use enough vacuum it does fine.

Norm,

Thanks for the hands on feedback.

One question I have had with the Grizzly planers is most of the models I've seen have a serated infeed and a straight serated outfeed roller. What does the 1033 have?  If it is serated, does it leave any "tractor tire" marks?  I always wondered if it would on softer woods.  Grizzly assures me it won't.

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

Norm

Tim I'll look when I go over to the shop next time (it's not at my house) but have not had any problems with it leaving marks like you describe. I will leave very faint lines that the spiral heads are wont to do but it really is easy to sand them out as they're almost invisible to the naked eye. The softest wood I run through it is cherry and that is the one wood I'll see those  on.

The biggest change for me going from a straight blade Jet 15" planer was the noise and vibration difference. With the Jet I'd wear earmuff hearing protectors and it would still be loud. With the Grizzly I wear none and it really doesn't bother me one bit. The weight of the Grizzly makes it very stable and I think their quality has really gone up in the last 5 years.

tim1234

Norm,

Thanks again.  Real feedback is "priceless" compared to what I get from the stores ;)

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

tim1234

Before I made this post, I emailed a friend who was a shop teacher.  He just retired a few years ago.

He just bought a Grizzly 15" planer.  He didn't say which model.  I asked him today in another email, so I'll find that out.  He's had it 3 years and never run it.  He says he's hooking it up now so should have some feedback soon.

His take on the different equip was this.  Powermatic was too expensive, but good.  He had some Jet equip in the school shop and said from his experience, he vowed he would never own another piece of Jet equipment.  That's why he went with the Gizzly.  I'll post any feedback I get from him as soon as I get it.

Still, if anyone else has some good, bad or ugly experience with Grizzly, let me know.

Thanks

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

Don_Papenburg

Last year at the woodworkers show I looked at all the 15" planers . Jet Powerrmatic steel city and some others . All were basicly the same machine except the location of controls ,stands , motors ,and paint   so you would be looking manly at who will give you the best price, service ,or extras.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Larry

I'm also of the opinion there is not much difference between brands other than paint.

3 hp is not going to be much of an improvement in speed for what your wanting to do.  I would want 5 hp...you might have to move up to a 20" machine to get it.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

tim1234

Quote from: Larry on February 03, 2008, 07:36:48 AM
3 hp is not going to be much of an improvement in speed for what your wanting to do.  I would want 5 hp...you might have to move up to a 20" machine to get it.

Larry,

Most of the stuff I'm planing is only 6" to 8" wide.  hp is an interesting thing.  It depends alot on speed.  I can't believe that my little Delta 22-540's motor rated at 2 hp compares to a real stationary machine rated at 3 hp.  What you are really interested in is torque.  Just in diameter the motor on most stationary machines is twice the diameter alone which should double the tourque.

I worked in Diesel for a while and really had it pounded into my head that HP does not move the trucks it's torque.  Lots of torque at lower speed.  The 22-540 "develops" 2 hp but at a very high speed.  It bogs down quickly if you take a deeper cut and almost stops becuase it does not have enough torque to cut and feed the board. From what I've discussed with others and based on what I mention above, I hope to be able to take a much deeper cut at the same or slighty faster speeds and not have the machine bog down.

At least that is what I think. ;)

Any other opinions on that ???

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

mike_van

On Grizzley parts - I have one of those generic 14" Taiwan bandsaws, I don't even know who made it - The upper blade tracking casting broke, I found the pdf online for Grizzleys 14 incher, it looked the same so I called and ordered it - Fit like a glove as they say - No ????? asked about who's machine, where did you get it etc. I could have made this part too, at the time, and for the 9.00 I just bought it. The saws really been "moded out" I added a jackshaft to it, slowed the blade down to 100 fpm, use 3/4" wide bi-metal blades & saw steel with it - It's no Do-All, but it gets the job done. 
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

SwampDonkey

I've got a 14" Taiwan bandsaw too (TradeMaster). I have no complaints. I use 1/4" or 3/8" blades.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

flip

I have the 20" with knives and it does fine.  It will leave small marks from the rear feed roller if it is not adjusted correctly.  The bed rollers need to be adjusted correctly also or it will not want to pull boards through correctly.  I am to the point where I should have gotten something in the 24" range but $$ was thin at the time.  Ditto Norm's statement, you had better have a good dust collector (6") with good capacity unless you like stopping every 5 minutes to pull shavings out of the exhaust port.  Don't ask me how I know ::)
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

tim1234

Another question.  The 1021X2 is on back order.  It looks like it has the shelix cutterhead.  The 453z has the Grizzly spiral cutterhead.

Anyone have the grizzly version of the spiral cutterhead.  From the catalog this is the silver one. 

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

ADAMINMO

Have you contacted Baker Products or any other sponsers to get info on the planers they sell? I don't know if all of them carry planers but they may be the same or close to price as Grizz and may have them in stock.

Thank You Sponsors!