Dynamite?

[LOGDOG]

Hey Everyone,

   Do any of you know if a civilian can obtain and use dynamite for blasting purposes? I've got about 6 beaver dams on my bayou that have the water table stair stepped up to the point that it's flooding about 20 acres of my property. It's raining like cats and dogs at the moment which only adds to the problem. Prior to the rain I had intended to rent a trackhoe and walk it down in their and just tear the dams out. I think it may be too soft to get a machine back in there now. I got to thinking that dynamite would be effective if it was legal. Any ideas? Thanks as usual.

LOGDOG

[Riles]

The state of Louisiana contracts out it's beaver control to the US Fish and Wildlife service, if I remember correctly. They trap the rodents and blast the dam with the fertilizer/diesel recipe. I don't remember the specifics as they relate to private landowners, but I can PM the name and phone number of the LaTech wildlife professor who set up our field trip. He'd be able to answer your questions and give you a point of contact.

[beenthere]

Did that "dynamite-the-beaver-dam" trick once...and learned that two sticks poked down about 5-6' would blow a hole three times the desired size expected (had to build a 24' bridge across it to get over to the other side, it was so big   ;D).

Did it on the QT, figuring it was better to ask forgiveness, than ask for permission. Picked up some dynamite at a rock quarry, where the owner was understanding and trusted no harm would come.  : :

But Riles plan sounds the best to me.  Tax dollars are being spent to have these people on board, so just as well use them, I figure.

[pineywoods]

To add to what Riles posted, they will take out beavers on private property. They use steel traps and a 22 cal handgun. no live traps. They will also take out coyotes and woods hogs. One of the agents was here last week looking for some sweetgum stakes to anchor his traps.  Think he was from Oak Grove. I'd say contact your local wildlife folks.

[Nate Surveyor]

You guys take out the fun! ;D ;D

(I'm wishing we could play with big firecrackers too!)

N

[LOGDOG]

Thanks Guys. At first the notion of doing it myself sounds exciting then I think "what if I goof"? Riles if you can PM me that info that'd be awesome.

Beenthere ... Would've loved to have seen the look on your face when that blast went off and you discovered the hole you had made.  Priceless.

LOGDOG

[beenthere]

Logdog
It was one of those "priceless" moments.   

The quarry guy gave me a lot of fuse cord, that was waterproof. Didn't think to ask him how fast it burned..

So sticking the dynamite down the hole pushed into the 'dam' mud with a pipe, with the fuse cord attached, we had about 10' of cord. Lit it, and ran...and waited .... and waited.... and waited.  Thought something was wrong, but didn't dare go near it.  Waited...and waited....and waited....about 20 minutes or so.  Nothing happened. Then thought there were voices of someone in the woods. Looked around to warn anyone that might be out hunting...no one there. Waited some more....then of a sudden, there was this huge geiser of mud, beaver dam (didn't see any beavers), sticks, and water. Laughed until our sides ached.   

Observing the huge hole, we were amazed at the damage just two sticks caused.  Come to find out there was an old 3' diam culvert under this dam.. It was found lying about 30 feet away with this huge bugled-out end...looked like Paschale's trombone... :D :D :D

Watched for dead beaver, but didn't see any floating through the breach. Figured that surely there were some with some bad headaches, at least.
That's been about 25 - 30 years ago, and the beaver have never been back to plug up that breach in their dam...and it drained about 40 acres of hunting land back to what it was before the beaver came in there.

(Another part of this story, when the Quarry guy said he'd fetch me some dynamite, we went to his small tin shack at the quarry, and he went in and rooted around awhile, turned around and handed me a stick that was about 3' long, and 2-3" diameter...... My eyes opened up a bit then...
He just grinned.. and put them back for some of the regular sized ones. Gave me 6 of them, but only used two for the beaver dam).

[LOGDOG]

So you know my next question right? Where are the other 4 sticks? ??? ;)

LOGDOG

[beenthere]

Like Nate said.....BIG firecrackers.. ;D ;D ;D

[Bibbyman]

Sounds like the makings of a Jeff Foxworthy routine.  :D

[Tom]

I asked a few years ago about getting some dynamite for stumps and was given a set of hoops to run through that would have never allowed me to use it.  Only a few places in the State have it anymore.  You have to have a permit and pass a bunch of tests.  Then you can only travel with the dynamite on one trip with escorts, and caps on another trip with escorts.  Then you have to schedule the use with local authorities within minutes of setting it off.  That's just a tip of the iceburg, there were other things too.  I quit listening because I knew I wasn't going to do that.

[Corley5]

Best way to get rid of beavers is to tear a hole in the dam big enough that the animals can hear the water running.  Sit at dusk within site and range and wait.  They'll show up  ;)   A 12 gauge with buckshot is best.

[Don_Papenburg]

Around here ,even thogh them beavers don't pay taxes they have more rights than the taxpayin' landowners. If you ask the DNR you will be told not to mess with the dam.

[LOGDOG]

That sounds about right. Good ole' DNR ...miss those guys - NOT!  ;) They're not nearly as uptight down here.

LOGDOG

[Nate Surveyor]

Ok, this probably is under humor, but it is funny!

This is an actual letter sent to a man named Ryan DeVries by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Quality, State of Pennsylvania.

This guy's response is hilarious, but read the State's letter before you get to the response letter.

SUBJECT: DEQ File No.97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Lycoming County

Dear Mr. DeVries:

It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity: Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond. A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files shows that no permits have been issued.

Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 1 to 3 of the Pennsylvania Compiled Laws, annotated.

The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the stream channel.  All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 2006.

Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failure to comply with this request or any further unauthorized activity on the site may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action.

We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter. Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely, David L. Price

District Representative and Water Management Division.



Here is the response sent back by Mr. DeVries

Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Lycoming County

Dear Mr. Price,

Your certified letter dated 12/17/06 has been handed to me to respond to.

I am the legal landowner but not the Contractor at 2088 Dagget Lane, Trout Run, Pennsylvania. A couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond.

While I did not pay for, authorize, nor supervise their dam project, I think they would be highly offended that you call their skillful use of natures building materials "debris."

I would like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their dam project any time and/or any place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your request, I do not think the beavers are aware that they must first fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity. My first dam question to you is:

(1) Are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers, or

(2) do you require all beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request?

If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, through the Freedom of Information Act, I request completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 1 to 3 of the Pennsylvania Compiled Laws, annotated.

I have several concerns. My first concern is, aren't the beavers entitled to legal representation? The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay for said representation, so the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer.

The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event, causing flooding, is proof that this is a natural occurrence, which the Department is required to protect. In other words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing them and calling their dam names. If you want the stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition please contact the beavers, but if you are going to arrest them, they obviously did not pay any attention to your dam letter, they being unable to read English.

In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is green and water flows downstream. They have more dam rights than I do to live and enjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Protection lives up to its name, it should protect the natural resources (Beavers) and the environment (Beavers' Dams).

So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more elevated enforcement action right now. Why wait until 1/31/2006? The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then: and there will be no way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention to a real environmental health problem in the area. It is the bears! Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the beavers alone. If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! The bears are not careful where they dump!

Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this response to your dam office.

THANK YOU.

RYAN DEVRIES & THE DAM BEAVERS

[LOGDOG]

That's funny Nate. Thanks for sharing that. 

LOGDOG

[LOGDOG]

Well ... the score is 6 to 0 with LOGDOG beating the beavers at this point. Yesterday I tore out the dams and within hours the the bottom had drained. It's amazing what they're capable of. My wife doesn't want me to kill them and even I admit I like to see them occasionally. So at this point they're all alive and the water's well down stream. 

LOGDOG

[sawguy21]

They won't give up easily. You may need to do that several times before the message gets across.

[LOGDOG]

This is the second time. My neighbor saw me unloading the hoe off the semi and came over to talk. I told him what the deal was and he asked why I didn't tell him. Apparently he handled all the blasting on Barksdale Air Force base down the road - beaver dams included. I told him I'll keep in mind for next time.

LOGDOG

[sawdust]

When I was about 16 my father wanted to play with big firecrackers. Sent mom off to a company in Edmonton called Explosives Unlimited. She came home with the Forcite 40 in the trunk the caps in the glove box and the fuse on the seat. I don't recall any paperwork, the car did sit OUTSIDE overnight, drove it out to the cabin the next day and spent the weekend making loud noises. I recall the concussion is like getting slammed with a real heavy pillow full on.

I really doubt that you could do that now.

[Warbird]

Anytime someone asks about dynamite, it reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFwxH3PPWiU

[LOGDOG]

Whewwww ... makes me glad I went with the hoe.That was some blast. Can you imagine be the claims specialist at that car owners insurance company? Claim comes across the desk. Cause of accident: Whale blubber fell out of the sky and crushed car.  Won't see that too often.


LOGDOG

[Paul_H]

I love it!!  :D 8)

You see the explosion and 5 seconds later hear little splat sounds followed by much larger splatting sounds,like the pitter pat of a Spring shower beginning  ;D

Make it stop :D :D

[Nate Surveyor]

Keep 'em commin'! :D :D :D

N

[LOGDOG]

Here's an update. Score is now LOGDOG (6) and Beavers (2). I took my wife for a walk back on the land yesterday. We go to our bridge and I heard water falling. I thought what? Sure enough, walked upstream 150 yds and they had rebuilt one of the dams I tore out -even better than it originally was. I clenched my teeth and walked upstream another 300 yds to where the biggest dam had been. Sure enough they rebuilt that bugger too! I told my wife it's on like a chicken bone now. Those beavers are goin' down!!! >:( Wish me luck.


LOGDOG

[stonebroke]

You are just going to have to kill them . They will outlast you. and they multiply.

Stonebroke

[Fla._Deadheader]

No "reenactment" guys, with "Cannon Fuel" down your way ???  : :

[LOGDOG]

Actually my neighbor did demolition work for Barksdale Air Force base here. He offered to come blow them for me. I think what I'll end up doing is making a hole in the dams - one at a time - and sitting off a ways with my binoculars and my 300 mag.  I hate to do it but they don't take the hints very well.  :-\

LOGDOG

[Warbird]

Got any trappers in the area?  Best way to get rid of them, IMO.

I hope this story is okay to tell here...  if it isn't, would a Moderator move it to the Full Members section or just delete it?

*edit* After thinking about it for a few, I just decided to delete it.

[Warbird]

Interesting...  you can't report your own post to the Moderators.  Whoever reads my above post next, would ya report it to the Mods, just to make sure they don't think it's over the top?  I don't want to offend anyone.

[stonebroke]

The best time to shoot beavers is right at sunset, They are the most active at that time. At least northern beavers are.

Stonebroke

[sawdust]

Would you consider trapping? No point in wasting the critters, their pelts ought to be really good about now.

[LOGDOG]

I would consider trapping. How big of a conibear trap would I need to do it? Their runs are all over. Wouldn't be hard to put out a dozen traps at the base of each run and wait. Might be pricey though. As I recall those traps aren't cheap. I used to read Fur, Fish and Game growing up and wished I knew more about running a trap line.


LOGDOG

[beenthere]

Googled conibear beaver trap, and one hit was this article...interesting

http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page563.html

[LOGDOG]

Beenthere,

   That's an excellent site! I think I'm going to buy a few traps and make that a project. I have a mile of creek (called bayous here) that runs through my property. Lots of animals in it. I have a ton of bobcat and coons too. Might make for a good hobby and some interesting taxidermy for the cabin too. Thanks for the lead. 

LOGDOG

[dail_h]

   LD,
   You might try some of the black corrugated sewer pipe. Cut it into 10 - 12 ft pieces, put it into low spots in the dam. The beavers can't figure out the leak. Worked for me a coupla times

[LOGDOG]

Good idea Dail. It could almost act like a siphon huh?

I went out and sat on the bank tonight with the 300 until dusk. I was downstream and downwind of the one dam about 50 yards with about a 125 yd upstream view. I kept waiting for a beaver to come around the bend but never did. All I saw were a bunch of wood ducks, gray squirrels and catfish that were feeding over my shoulder. Oh and I found one undiscovered dandy rub that i had missed from this season. Overall it was a nice evening but no beaver. I'm thinking traps will be in order since I don't have that much time to sit and wait.


LOGDOG

[trapper]

logdog
If you are thinking of taking up trapping as a hobby check out your state trappers association.  The conventions normally have a lot of good information and demostrations.  Also trap and lure prices at them are normally the best you can get.

[PineNut]

The sewer pipe method described by dail_h may be a good way to go. I have heard of several methods of putting a distributed leak in their dam. Most of them were more complicated than the perforated sewer pipe but they all involved some method of a slow distributed leak that the beavers can't find. 

[brdmkr]

Logdog,

If you are going to use Conibear traps, you will want to go with the 10"x10" traps.  Most any trap supply dealer will call them a 330, but that size trap goes by different names depending on the manufacturer.  I suggest Duke brand as they are cheaper and do a good job.  RP (or R&P) outdoors is located in your state.  They have good prices and really good service.  If you decide to buy traps, I'd bet they would be your best source.

Corley5 suggested buckshot.  I must admit that #4 buck is about the best load I have ever used for beaver.  Lead BB is perhaps better, but it is really hard to get.  Avoid steel shot at all cost.

To shoot beaver in number, you really need to do it at night with a light.  I don't know LA laws, but can bet that this is illegal without proper permits.  I'd not risk it without calling.

If you call USDA APHIS Willdlife Services, they will often send a trapper who will set traps for  you.  In most cases they will set the traps for free and will allow you to check the traps.  If they run the traps they will charge you an hourly fee.  In my experience, this fee is CHEAP.  These guys will also blow dams for you. 

Blowing dams is about as much fun as a man ought to have, BUT it will not get rid of the beavers.  The beavers must be removed.  Also, given the scenario you supplied, you will always have a beaver problem.  If there is flowing water, you can bet that the site will be recollonized.  Still, an intensive removal will give you a break for some time.

Good luck!

[Deadwood]

I have only been to court twice in my life. The second time was for my divorce. The first time was for ripping out a beaver dam.

The fine was only 2500 bucks, but the attorney fees were 9 grand. Ask me if it was worth it and I will tell you this...NO!!

We were putting in a logging road so we could harvest 400 acres that had not been cut since the 1930's.As I bobbed around in the courts, the landowner grew tired of waiting, and I watched as another logging contractor got the right permits, built the road and clearcut the woodlot.

As for dynamite and blasting caps, you can find that anywhere around here if you know where to look. My Uncle had just sold his house and we were in his old barn when the new homeowner said his boys had ADHD. That was when I said "well you don't want this then." I reached up in the rafters and pulled down a box of blasting caps and some boxes of dynamite. I threw them in my truck but did not give it much thought until I went into walmart one day. Here i had a couple of boxes of dynamite and blasting caps right in my passengers seat and thought what would happen if someone saw the boxes with "Dynamite" written all over it.So I covered them up with a shirt and later stored them eleswhere I could just imagine coming out of the store and having my truck surrounded by the ATF, the swat team and the bomb squad.

[LOGDOG]

Deadwood,

    That's quite the story. I bet it really chapped you to lose out on that timber and then have all those fines and such to boot. Down here the nutria and the beaver are viewed like rats. In fact I think there's still a bounty on them. (Nutria looks like a beaver with a rats tail. Kinda like a muskrat on steroids for you northern folks.)

    We flooded out here at my place on about 25 acres this last weekend. Our house is well above the flood zone but there's a bottom between the two ridges that floods. Even with the two dams in there right now it drained within 3 days. The larger problem is down below me. It backs water up on me. If I were to say block this bayou off and back water up on my neighbors upstream I'd be breaking the law and could be held liable for any damage to their property. Let the beavers do it though and it's just "nature". Personally I'd like to see a crew go down the length of this bayou all the way to the lake and trap the beaver out and then blow the dams. The state must not feel it's worth the money. So instead, they decided about 3 years ago to build a water retention pond about 1/4 mile downstream from me to protest this subdivision from flooding. Levy flanks the bayou with a subdivision on the other side on a hill. Two big spiral pumps to pump the water over the levy. They spent like 2.45 million dollars on it and I don't think the spiral pumps have run once.  : Amazing what they will appropriate money for.


LOGDOG