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Trailer ? 8 wheels or 4 ?

Started by sprucebunny, January 31, 2008, 07:39:29 AM

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sprucebunny

I've been looking at flatbed 6 ton trailers. Most of the 4 wheel, dual axle trailers have a deck height of 33". I'd really like to have the lower deck height ( 27") that the 8 wheel trailers have but I know nothing about that kind of axle set up.

Many of the heavier equipment trailers are the 8 wheel style.
One of the ads said "12,000 # @ 50 mph " What's that about ??? What's the rating at 60 mph ?
Also the eight wheel trailers talk about a wheel alignment feature as if it's something you need to check often ?

Do any of you own one of these 8 wheel trailers ? Or can you enlighten me ?

Thanks  :)

MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Quartlow

Quote from: sprucebunny on January 31, 2008, 07:39:29 AM
One of the ads said "12,000 # @ 50 mph " What's that about ??? What's the rating at 60 mph ?
Also the eight wheel trailers talk about a wheel alignment feature as if it's something you need to check often ?

Do any of you own one of these 8 wheel trailers ? Or can you enlighten me ?

Thanks  :)



I would guess the 12,000# @ 50 MPH is a cover your butt thing for them. Deck height is going to be controlled by tire height more than anything. A lot of the duel tired trailers run low profile tires. Are you talking 12,000# gross weight or capacity?
My nephew just bought a 14,000# GVW trailer. I don't think its 33 inches high. He will call me sometime today and I'll ask him.
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

gharlan

Several years ago while looking for a heavy trailer I had the same questions.  The lower trailer  has a pierced frame while the higher has it in layers(if that makes any sense). I discovered that the trailer with the pierced frame has to run a lower profile tire. On the trailers I looked at the lower tire profile also carried a lower load capacity. The lower capacity times 8 tires made a several thousand pound difference in load carrying ability. I also was concerned about  all the cutting on the main frame with a torch to pierce it and how well the re weld job would be. I made the decision to get the taller 33" trailer. I can not say I have ever regretted it  and wished it was lower. Although a few times I have wished it was taller so it would mate to loading docks better. I guess there is no perfect solution unless it is more trailers. I think a lot of the things you are hearing are marketing from the selling outfits. My eight wheel trailer is 32 feet long and pulls better then some of my shorter 4 wheel trailers. I think the axle positions can be changed on the 8 wheel but I have never done so. Nor have I ever had to have anything aligned in the 6 or so years since I bought it. I will say that adding air to the inside tires is a pain though. Good luck and happy trailering   Gary 

Nate Surveyor

I don't know the answers to your questions.

But, I will say that a heavier load carrying capacity is nearly ALWAYS better.

I have blown tires, and broken axles to prove it.

I have my eye out for a 2 axle, bumper pull, pintle hitch trailer, that is around 24' long, and is rated at around 10 tons. I might even go with goose neck, if I like it.

With good brakes, my one ton truck will love it!

Then, install a loader, and I will have a log gettin machine!

Hopefully, I can find a used hydraulic loader to install, along with stabilizers.

N


I know less than I used to.

Ed

When you say "8 wheeled" I'm guessing the trailer uses the stubby axles and has a tire on each side of the frame and no axle that spans the trailer frame width.
If so, one of my neighboors has ran one in a gooseneck style for 4 or 5 years, he hauls a 580 Case backhoe or 450 Case dozer on it. To my knowledge his main complaint is changing tires on the inside hub. Especially when it's on the side of the road and you have to crawl under the trailer and sit there hunched over to do everything.

Ed

mike_van

Ed, that sounds like a real fun job! I know some people, if they had to do that - They'd take the machine off, use it to flip the trailer over, then change the tire  :D :D
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Quartlow

Quote from: Ed on January 31, 2008, 01:38:06 PM
When you say "8 wheeled" I'm guessing the trailer uses the stubby axles and has a tire on each side of the frame and no axle that spans the trailer frame width.

Ed

I despise that setup. Actually some of them are true tandems like a big truck.

SB I talked to Wade a bit ago , his new trailer is 32 inches. I don't think your going to get much lower than that and still get the weight range you want.

Mike,
That would be me  :D  :D
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

footer

Do you have a Class A CDL liscense. If your combined GVWR of your truck and trailer is over 26000LB you need one. With most 3/4 ton trucks, you can squeek by with a 14000lb trailer....4 tires. With most current 1 ton trucks, a 14000LB GVWR trailer will put you over.

Furby

That's not totally true.
You need a CDL if your trailer is more than 10,000 pounds gross.
Hold on, I'll pull up the DOT rule.



Edit:
Here's the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm

QuoteClasses of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

Let me point out what I'm saying:
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
I've talked to some troopers that twist that to mean any vehicle with a trailer over 10,000 pounds needs a CDL.
The officer stopping you interpets the meaning and you can fight it in court if you choose. ::) ::) ::)

sprucebunny

Yes, I mean the 2 pairs of short axles.

Yup, got the CDL . Don't plan on exceeding the trucks GCWR which is around 22,000.

And I have the same idea as Nate Surveyor... I want to use my log grapple with it  ;D I figure that the closer to the ground it is, the better my reach will be !

One little thing that a dealer pointed out, is that tilt type trailers have the axles further forward and you have to get more weight towards the front to keep it from fishtailing. So I have to rethink whether I want a tilt .....

Thanks for the help  :)

OH ... And I plan to work on the wheels like Mike Van ;D ...if I get that kind ....
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Dave Shepard

Any trailer I have seen that has 8 tires, whether they are dually syle, or four stubby axles, has had a gross weight of about 20,000 or more. If you only want a 12,000 trailer, you probably don't need the 8 tires. I have seen the deck over tilts, and it doesn't look like any kind of fun to me.

Furby, you are right, it is the police officer that gets to tell you what the law is, and I've run into many that can't interpret the law, even as clearly spelled out as you have shown it.  >:(


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Haytrader

 ::)
Why would you purposly buy a trailer with that kind of axles?
Why not just get tandem duals like the millions of trucks and trailers on the highways today.
http://www.bigtextrailers.com/trailers/goosenecks/thrdlev_gooseneck25gn.html
There are a lot of these around.

Furby,

I beg to differ. We have class A with our big trucks. The difference is farm tag.
Haytrader

Brian_Rhoad

In PA you can drive any vehicle or combination up to 26,000 lbs GVW or CGVW with out a CDL. Also according to the way the law is written you are legal with a 26,000 lb truck towing a 10,000 lb trailer. If the trailer is over 10,000 lbs or if it is a gooseneck or fifth wheel you must have a combination license on the truck.

Dave Shepard

Haytrader, which aspect of Furby's post are you disagreeing with? In MA, all you need is a Class D with a farm plate. You still need a DOT card, however.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

sprucebunny

MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Nate Surveyor

Those look like hard to change INNER tires.

Nate
I know less than I used to.

footer

Quote from: Furby on January 31, 2008, 04:17:00 PM
That's not totally true.
You need a CDL if your trailer is more than 10,000 pounds gross.
Hold on, I'll pull up the DOT rule.



Edit:
Here's the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm

QuoteClasses of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

Let me point out what I'm saying:
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
I've talked to some troopers that twist that to mean any vehicle with a trailer over 10,000 pounds needs a CDL.
The officer stopping you interpets the meaning and you can fight it in court if you choose. ::) ::) ::)

Yup.......I forgot to mention the over 10,000lb trailer thing.
Just thought it was worth bringing up because a lot of people go out and buy a trailer then find out the hard expensive way they cant even pull it empty. I was one that learned that way :(

Haytrader

Dave,

I was referring to the having to have a CDL with gross over 26,000 #
BUT.....after re-reading, I think I don't have a disagreement.  ;)

I still say, Sprucebunny, why would you even consider those axles?  You are just looking at trouble, IMO. I am not making fun of what you are looking at, just speaking from experience. The trailer looks like it is well built. Just get better axles.
;)
Haytrader

Ironwood

I have seen and WILL use the "super single" tires I have seen on heavier trailers ie.. 24,000 lb. Each tire is good for 6-8000 lbs. The rim is a flat piece of plate steel welded to the outer rim, NOT a pressed rim like almost all others. The tire are 17 or 19's I can't remember. I would NO WAY buy a trailer with the "old" 8 tires YOY the maintiance. Here are the trailers I will outfit them to. I have also heard that hydraulic surge brakes are far superior to the electric (no fade) tothe extent that a local hauler is changing out his axles on a brand new trailer. FYI look around and use the term "super single", and not the 20" tractor trailer version.

 

These are going to be a 30' tongue pull and a beavertail 20'er. The inverted one in the backround is the 30'er. 
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Nate Surveyor

From the voice of experience:

You will never blow a tire, when you are EMPTY!

It happens when you are loaded (overloaded!?)

And then those INNER tires become worth their weight in gold, if they are NOT the ones that blow, and worth their weight in frustration if they are!

Somehow I always blow tires when loaded to the max! (I wonder why!)

Nate
I know less than I used to.

sprucebunny

Quote from: Haytrader on January 31, 2008, 11:38:05 PM
just speaking from experience.
;)

Thanks, Haytrader, that's what I was looking for  ;)
Those type of axles definately look like trouble waiting to spring out at me but the lower deck height is appealling.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Ed

I really don't think I would worry about a 5" difference in deck height. If you are just going to mount a grapple on it and haul logs the hassle of the inner tires would be greater than any small reduction in reach.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ed

scsmith42

Joan, maybe I missed it but I'd like to ask what are your intended uses for the trailer?  That will help us to be able to provide a recommendation.  I'm going to limit the scope of my comments to tag-along or gooseneck trailers; there are a wealth of folks on the FF that operate tractor trailers and they have much more experience with the larger models than I do.

I have a number of trailers – ranging from 8' to 37' deck lengths, single axle on up to dual tandems.

Without question, the most versatile trailer that I own is a dual tandem hydraulic dovetail flat deck gooseneck trailer.  It has the pierced beam construction, low deck height and a 26K gross capacity.  It enables me to move things with my F450 that I'd otherwise have to use a Class 6, 7 or 8 tractor to move.  I have electric over hydraulic brakes on it, which is also a big plus.

The disadvantage that I see on the tilt deck Econoline trailer is that the axles have to be spaced fairly far forward in order to the deck to tilt at a reasonable angle.  This in turn creates problems with utilizing all of the deck area of the trailer, as you need to maintain positive tongue weight of around 10 – 15% of your total load.  That's difficult to do when the axles are so far forward.

The other thing to watch out for is the quality of the tires.  In your original post you referenced a 12K capacity at 50MPH.  This is usually due to the tire capacity and I would not recommend the purchase of a trailer that had such low quality tires on it (even though they are very common trailer tires – lots of RV type trailers use them).  The problem is that tire heat increases with speed, and if you're driving 65mph with your 50mph tires they will often overheat and blow out – especially in the summertime down south (may not be much of a problem for you where you're at though).

Depending upon your intended use, there are different types of trailers that I'd recommend that you consider.

Regards,

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Ironwood

Well, just saw some of the tires I spoke of, they were on a drilling rig. 245-17.5 Goodyear Marathon LHT, and are good for 6008 lbs per tire singly. So, four tires are good for a 24,000 lbs trailer. The rims are essentially flat disk inners welded to the outer rims. The wheel studs are  (I believe ) 5/8" @ 8 lug nuts as apposed to 1/2 or 9/16" @ 8 lugnuts. Bolt pattern remains the same from what I can tell. I WILL have this combo on my rig when I get to it.

          Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

sprucebunny

That sounds excellent, Ironwood !

I've gone back to just getting an ordinary 4 tire 10k trailer because of DOT but now, I'm thinking about changing the duals on my F450 to a single that will take more weight. So far, it looks pretty expensive  :-\
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

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