Looking for info--ideas

[Fla._Deadheader]

As most of you know, I am having problems sawing this Aus. Pine. I am considering a different type mill. Can a MD saw logs that are 10"--18" or a little over, by 10'--20' long, with any real efficiency?? There needs to be 3" X 12" beams taken from these logs, also.
   Not poking fun at MD, just need actual input. I know they do a great job on large logs
  I figure there will be 30,000+ bd/ft on this one job and also the SYP we are sawing now, that will be an ongoing thing.
  I just spent over an hour trying to get practical info on Swing Blade machines, because of their lower cost. No PRACTICAL info that I could find for smaller logs.
  We need to turn over a bunch of logs per day. Any help or advice offered would be appreciated

[ksu_chainsaw]

from what i have learned about swing blades is that on the smaller logs, most of the time is spent moving the logs and lumber.  if the logs are almost identical in sizes, then several logs can be set under the saw and be sawn at the same time.  if you have access to equipment to move the logs, i would think that the time spent moving the logs would be decreased.  i still cant figure out though how longer logs roll under the rails when there are support stands in the way-at least on the lucas mill.

hope you find what you're looking for

Charles Wist

[DanG]

Yep, Harold, the MD can handle that. With the mill configured the way mine is, you can cut up to a 4x12. I haven't maxed out the length on mine yet, but I'm sure I can handle 24'.
There is no loading system on the MD, at least not on the older ones like I have. With your knack for inventing and fabricating, and with Ed's help, I'm sure you could come up with something to quicken the pace.  I'm thinking about rigging up some hydraulics on mine in the future. A live deck would be nice, and I need some way to level a log, and move one of the clamps laterally, to center the heart.  Of course, my old "dead deck", the 2 steel sawhorses works pretty well on small logs. I can remove the bottom slab, position and clamp a new log, and be sawing again in about 2 minutes, by myself. With big logs, I just move the deck out of the way and load with the forklift. I'm usually ready for a break after sawing and stacking a big'un, anyway. ;D

[Fla._Deadheader]

Dan, is there any advantage to turning the log one time and having a flat face when the cant is finished?? I'm still trying to get over the log moving past the saw thingy : :
  How would you clamp the log if it had to be raised higher than the clamp to get it near level?/ Is that a problem??
  I know that's where the MD shines, on large logs that don't need to be leveled as much??

[Vermonter]

I agree, there is little info about small logs.  Here's a case study.  I bought 2000 feet of small logs (some as small as 6" on the small end),  From the first half, I scaled (International) 1000 board feet.  I spent 7 machine hours on the project, did it all my self over a few days, and gained 840 board feet.
I cut 2 notches in each skid, plus the log dogs that came with the Peterson mill.  On one skid, there is a 5" notch, then a 7" notch, then the dogs in a 12" wide notch.  On the other skid, there is a 7" notch, a 5" notch, and a dog in a 12" wide notch.  This allows me to alternate the butts and take care of the swell.  Most of the logs were under 12'.  I did most of my wide cuts in the horizontal.
Yup, it took me more time.
Yup, they were really scrappy logs
Yup, the lumber was nice
I loaded at least 2 logs, depending if I had a big enough one for the big notches.
For my money, and time spent sharpening blades, the carbide tipped Peterson was money well spent.  
It wasn't the small log sawing that took the extra time, it was the small log handling that did.  I suspect loading time on any mill would be higher with small logs.
www.petersonmills.com

[Frank_Pender]

DH, on logs that  size I can run from 35% to 45% overrun on 2 x material std dimensions.  Now that is using the Scribner Scale system.  Yes you can roll the log to a flattened side and recover some lumber from that flattened peice, dependeing on the thickness and width.  I usually take the slab left over and turn it on edge and recover all beu a small wedge of material.   In todays logs I was getting either a single 2 x 6 or two 2 x 4s.  These logs averages between 10 and 14 inches.  I cut them to lengths of 8 and 10 feet for the fellas order.  He had brougght in 18s and 20s.  I divided them to increase his total finished volume and he wanted 8s and 10s in lengths.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Thanks Vermonter. I tried to find pictures of swing mills online. No go. I've never seen a swing mill and can't get a grip on how they are set up. Today, Peterson's website was down?? I will try it now.

Can you cut 3 X 12's to 16' on your mill??? I assume you have a swinger??

[Fla._Deadheader]

Frank, I was figuring on leaving the last piece on the deck as a 3 X 12, but, realized that was not possible. The edger blades only cut 4" or so, and you cant leave a flat 12" surface, correct??

[DanG]

Well, DanG it!  >:(  I wrote a nice response to this a while ago, but I musta fergot to poke the post button.

Harold, the MD, configured like mine is, can cut a 4x12 in one pass. I have the 12.5 inch twin edgers. With the larger, single edger, you can cut 8x12.

It is a good move, most times, to flip the log at some point, so you end up with a big flitch, instead of a useless slab.

There are no log handling amenities on my mill, but I'd like to add some.

[DanG]

You can leave that last plank as wide as the log allows. We only cut 4" at a time, but the crossfeed moves the blades horizontally, so the bottom edger will take those 4" bites till it runs out of log.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Hmmmmm. I thought there was something holding the bottom blade on, that stuck down below the blade??  Guess not??
  Know of any MD's within driving distance for sale??

[Fla._Deadheader]

Dang, it wouldn't be all that difficult to add them hydramatical features you mentioned. Gather an electric driven hyd. pump and a hyd motor and a couple of 3" cylinders and the rest is pretty simple. A free standing loader would be possible and movable when ya move the mill. A turner would be a piece of cake.  ;D

[Frank_Pender]

DH, you might call and speak to Don at the factory about who is close to you in the Florida area that has  a MD mill.  Their toll free number is: I-877-272-9645.  The Mill in Montana sounds  very interesting that was spoken about on another thread.

[Ianab]

Hi Guys
Some good photos of a Peterson in action on this site.

http://www.treeworks.co.nz/photo_album.htm

[Vermonter]

fla_: Yeah I have a Peterson 24hp 8" WPF, which I can cut 8" by 16" max.  I've got a few pictures up on www.petersonmills.com.  Any specific pictures you would like?  Email or message me.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Hi Vermonter. I got to see you on petersons site. I am concerned about getting the logs under the mill. Looks like it would take a while to get set up on each log??
  How much production can you get in a good day with logs that average 12-18" at 14-16 feet long??
  The price is very inviting, but, can it make a good production mill with this size logs?? I need to make 1200 bd/ft a day to make it worthwhile??

[Vermonter]

As you know, production numbers are a slippery thing.  Personal Bests are not average.  Personally, I have had many days below 1200ft, I have also had many above.  The most important part is the log setup.  If the logs are in a neat pile, on skids, and you have an off-bearer,1200ft of 1" boards is on the low side.  One guy at a show sawed over 2000 ft by himself and talked to customers, mostly on a dare, again, that is a personal best not an average.
I hate to get into this discussion, because things vary so much.  Suffice it to say that with logs that are well staged, a tailer, and a trailer to put lumber on, I can turn 2000bd ft in a reasonable day.  When I have to tote logs by myself, stack and cut slabs, move lumber, (which is more usual) I get 800-1000 ft and like it.  I spend very little time sharpening, usually just 4-5 minutes every 6th or 7th log.  I put more than one log under the mill at once.  The center leg has a locking bolt at the top, so it loosens and swings out of the way quickly.  The end frames can be set up so that you can roll a 20' log underneath without jockeying it.  This may take more time, but remember, this thing fits in the back of my truck, rather than towing it, and I don't need a forklift to load it (although another owner has one and loads over the low track).
There are many people who own these mills that saw much more than I do.  They are bigger, (I only weigh 155) have more log handling equipment, and might have a permanent setup.  Sorry if I don't have concrete production numbers, but I don't want to mislead anyone.  1" boards under perfect conditions?  Sawmill shootout 2002: 510 bd ft per hour.  2" boards could be much higher.  Remember, this is with a fully manual mill.
BTW Fla_deadheader; I've read a lot of your posts, thanks.

[Tillaway]

FDH
FWIW I have been scoping out mills for quite some time.  I wish I had the money to go for it but alas.

So far from what I have seen in actual production and what I have been able to deduce is that for the kind of logs I would saw a swing or MD would be my only choice.  From what I see you dredging up out of the river I think that this would be the way to go.

I would be cutting oversized material 30"+ cull logs and small diameter cedar up to 12" or so.  For the production and the costs associated with them the swing mills really shine.  At the local logging conference WM and Lucas were set up cutting the same logs (cull cedar) and it was no contest, for softwoods I think they are the way to go.  For hardwoods the band mills will shine for cutting grade boards.  I think you have to go by the value produced per hour, bft or whatever.  

Basically the heart of my idea is to spend little on a mill and spend more on log/lumber handling equipment.  The log/lumber seems to be the choke point for me.  

[Fla._Deadheader]

Now, to me, that's GOOD info. I realize everyone will get different results. What you have done is what I wanted to know about.
  Without seeing one operate, I was thinking that chasing the saw both ways would be a real grunt??
  Wish I could see one in action. I could wear out the operator with questions?? : :D :D :D

[Vermonter]

If you call Petersons, www.petersonsawmills.com, they will put you in touch with an owner near you.  They also have a good video, lots of sawing rather than lots of bs.
It can be a grunt going back and forth if they are both full depth cuts, or if your saw is out of adjustment.  Otherwise, the spinning effect of the blade creates kind of a gyroscope, and, although not effortless, usually newbies are rather surprised how easy it is.

[BW_Williams]

Harold,  I have no clue about Aussy Pine, but cut hard and softwoods with my Lucas 618.  Looking at a pile that big, the production of MD would be nice.  My personal best day, 2000 bdft of 1x pine and fir.  (and one whipped sawyer at the end of the day).  Logs 16' 6" and under roll between the posts, over than that, I roll then in at an angle and skid them into place.  I'm sure there are sawyers in your area that could help.  Do a google search on swingblade sawmills and look at Lucas web site (haven't yet figured how to post a link)  DonT forget Brand X, he may have the best dogging system, although I haven't seen Andy's setup yet.  Good luck and keep us posted.  BWW