Question about repair for my Stihl 029 Wood Boss

[Jim Spencer]

I have (3) Stihl saws.  A 028 and a 066 which has given me great service.
I also have a 029 Wood Boss which I have regreted buying because of a bar mounting stud which is stripped due to the design of the saw.   The front stud is screwed into the plastic bar oiler container and has been coming loose since I first bought the saw.
I have purchased an oversized screw and made the repair but this oversize stud still comes loose.
My question is is there supposed to be a thin plate between the bar mounting surface and the bar?
My 028 and 066 has this thin plate but I can't remember having one on the 029.
I would really appreciate someone giving me an answer telling me if I need this plate which is very thin sheet metal.
Thanks,
Jim

[sawguy21]

The thin guide plate, which your 029 did not come with, is designed to help guide the chain onto the bar. It has nothing to do with keeping the studs tight. Did you over tighten the bar nut and strip the threads in the tank?

[mike_van]

Jim, you might want to try reinstalling that stud in JB weld, then being careful not to overtorque it. I've had good luck with JB on a lot of repairs. 

[Jim Spencer]

Yes I did strip the stud out of the plastic because of overtightening the bar nuts.
As an engineer I would never have designed a stud to screw into plastic.
Why didn't Stihl warn buyers of this saw about this problem?
They obviously understood that they had this problem because they designed and put in stock an oversized stud for a fix for this problem that they had to know about.  They would not have a fix unless they knew about it.
The oversized stud does not hold nearly as well as the original stud and I just tried a locktite product that is supposed to work on thermoset plastic and steel.   I think Stihl should assist their customers with advise on how best to fix this problem.   But they know that if they get too involved they will automaticaly have to accept some responsibility for something they want to keep hidden from the public.
Anyway thanks,
Jim

[sawguy21]

The 029, now MS290, is an economy saw. Don't expect a BMW for the price of a Chevy. They could build pro quality into it but you would not pay the price. That is where the MS361 comes in.

[Jim Spencer]

Sawman;
          Why would a good business sell something that would bring shame to their product line and name.   I guess if I have to replace the saw with another economy saw it will be with a real economy saw such as a Poulan from Walmart.

[beenthere]

Spence
Doesn't the manual say how tight to tighten the nuts on the bar studs?  They don't have to be much more than just 'snug'.

[joe_indi]

You mentioned an over size stud.Stihl does not have an over size stud for this purpose.
I suspect you have used the stud which comes behind the one in question.
The one behind is a longer one and screws into the engine pan.
Since it screws into metal, it has a finer thread.
The stud with which you have problem goes into the polymer body and has a coarser thread.
This stud comes loose only due to the following reasons:
1. Using the chain cover nuts ignoring the inner and outer surface of the nuts.When put correctly the nuts turn freely. But  they go in tight and come out  or even tighter when put the wrong way.At times the studs come out with the nuts when this happens.
2. When both nuts are not tightened evenly.The stud carrying the slightly loose nut gets moved around a bit and loosens in its thread.
3. Over tightening of the nuts.
4. Using the "2 nut" method to put the stud back into its thread.There is a special tool for putting in the studs.

Tightening torque for the stud is 16 Nm. Loctite 243 (medium strength) should be used when fixing the stud.

[ladylake]

Sawman;
          Why would a good business sell something that would bring shame to their product line and name.   I guess if I have to replace the saw with another economy saw it will be with a real economy saw such as a Poulan from Walmart.

Lots of companys use thier good name, sell junk just to make money NOW.  I'd stay away from Poulan, twice as bad as the cheaper Stihls. If you want a saw with good quality at a reasonable price get a Echo or maybe a 5100s Dolmar that will outcut the Stihl 029 or MS290 by a lot and wiegh less.  Steve

[Tom]

Tightening torque for the stud is 16 Nm.

That's a new one on me.  Not being too metric skilled, I still have problems with MM.  What's a Nm.?

[leweee]

Tightening torque for the stud is 16 Nm.

What's a Nm.?

Newton metre...... 16 Nm = 11.68 ft/lbs approximately ;D

[mike_van]

Newton metre Tom, but I don't have a wrench that measures them!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_metre

[beenthere]

Here is a conversion chart that might help...

http://www.engineersedge.com/torque_conversion.htm

[Jim Spencer]

Friend Joe Indi;
Stihl does have an oversize stud as a fix for this problem.   I don't know why you would say they don't have one because you are absolutely wrong.  I have one which I had to buy from the Stihl dealer.  The coarse thread is larger diameter and is meant to screw into the hole after the hole has been stripped from the smaller dia. coarse thread.
Why did you say they don't have an oversized stud for a fix?
Are you some kind of a spin meister for Stihl, lurking on this forum?  Lets all be honest and we will all be better off.
I will get the part # and post it if you continue to deny it.  Maybe you just made an honest mistake but you came back as if you were a Stihl representative and I was a farmer mechanic who did not know what they were talking about.  I hope you will answer this as I am curious as to why you made that statement.
Jim

[Jim Spencer]

16 Newton Metres.
I have owned Homelite EZ4, McCullough, Mall , Stihl 031 & 032AV in the past. 1958 I was cutting pulp wood on the Ausable river between Glennie and McKinley, Michigan.  I have worn out a few saws in my 72 trips around the sun on this beautiful space craft called earth.  I presently have a 066, 028 and a practically unused 029 that is practically unusable. I hardly have enough strength anymore to zip my fly let alone over torque a bolt.  I guess I did not realize all these years that I needed to use a torque wrench when taking the slack out of my chain.  Seems all wood cutters should carry a torque wrench on their belt when working in the woods.  Does anyone know the part number for the torque wrench I need so I can buy one at my Stihl dealer.  Any honest advise will be respectfully appreciated.
Jim

[John Bartley]

The Stihl technical bulletin number for this problem is : TI-14-2000
The part number for the o/s stud is : 11276642410
The old stud is an M8 coarse thread
The new (repair part) stud is an M9 coarse thread
The bulletin advises locking in the new stud with Loctite # 648
The torque spec for the new stud is 16nm

I have used this repair and it does work,  but I can see where a much oversized hole might be so loose as to not grip the repair stud tightly enough. I can think of a few repair ideas for this, but ... it's always better to have seen the item first hand before offering a repair opinion

I'm guessing that with the saw being an 029, it must have a few years on it. If it's in good shape otherwise, wold you consider buying a used housing and replacing the worn part? It would be an ideal time to reseal the crankcase and wouldn't cost much extra - just a couple of seals and a tube of Dirko.

cheers eh?

John (Stihl master tech)

edit : Jim - you posted while I was typing (slow typer) - would you like me to see if my former customer/employee/partner/employer (whom I sold my company to) has a used housing?

[Jim Spencer]

John;
I really appreciate the information.
Yes if I can buy a housing I would greatly appreciate it.
This is the kind of information I was hoping that I could get.
Yes I would be interested in a housing.  I never even gave that a thought but should be able to handle that.  I love my 028 & 066 but generally keep the 066 for my Logosol use only.
John;
my email is jspencer1@comcast.net

[beenthere]

Spence
My stihl manual says to tighten those two nuts firmly   ;D ;D  ..but it is the MS361 so may take more abuse.

I think I probably tighten 'em too much, and go beyond firm. But am sure we don't need a torque wrench, just to get 'firm'...

[joe_indi]

Jim
1.

Are you some kind of a spin meister for Stihl, lurking on this forum?

I sell and repair chainsaws in India. Mostly Stihl.I honestly cant understand why you think I am a 'spin meister' for Stihl.

2.

Maybe you just made an honest mistake but you came back as if you were a Stihl representative and I was a farmer mechanic who did not know what they were talking about.  I hope you will answer this as I am curious as to why you made that statement.

My knowledge of saws is  self taught, mostly through experience of the past 17 years, not through any formal degree or technical education.
OK, I do have a degree, but its for Hotel Management!I did run my own restaurant for 6 years before I switched occupations. I liked to handle engines from my early childhood, and the present occupation gave me a chance to continue doing it.
When I need to get information which I may not know due to my technical inexperience(deficiency)  I check the Stihl parts list on cd rom (Mediacat).I have the most recent one.
As per this spare parts list the only stud available was part no.1127 664 2400 i.e.  the standard collar screw (stud).
Today I also saw  John Bartley's posting.
I did a search in the parts list for the over sized stud ( part no.1127 664 2410).It was not there in the parts list.
But TI-14-2000 was very much there.Honestly I never knew of this alternative part.Since John too seems to be working off the Mediacat, he could do a search of the parts list to confirm what I've said.
Since more of  660s and 460s are sold here, 029/0390 (MS290/390) are few on the ground.
When they do come in with their engine housing thread stripped like in your case, I resort to installing a gun metal threaded insert which can take the 8mm stud of a 046.

I hope this clears any doubts that you might have about me being a Stihl 'henchman'.
But if my  postings seem to put you off for being too categorical,a habit picked up in my restaurant days when writing recipes, I do apologize.

Joe_Indi

[John Bartley]

I did a search in the parts list for the over sized stud ( part no.1127 664 2410).It was not there in the parts list.
But TI-14-2000 was very much there.Honestly I never knew of this alternative part.Since John too seems to be working off the Mediacat, he could do a search of the parts list to confirm what I've said.

As far as I know this is true. The parts list (IPL) only seems to show the standard size stud. The oversize stud and its part number, as well as the procedure for installation and the spec for the LocTite product are shown in the Technical Information Bulletin.

cheers

[Jim Spencer]

Joe-Indi,
I did not realize you were in India and certainly understand how your information might have been slightly different than mine in Detroit,  Michigan.
Joe-Indi,  Please accept my opology for getting agressive in my post.  I have been a little frustrated with this saw.
  In which area of India are you located?  In 1968 I was working at Hindustan Motors in Uttapara, near Calcutta.  I was working for Cross company, located in Fraser, Michigan, installing an engine machining line at the engine plant there.  I used to ride from Calcutta frequently with a Mr. Singi, I think he was a Marwari, related to the Birla's.  The engine plant manager was a Mr. Seiti who was a Jain and I got to know him quite well.  Also a Badal Bhattecharjee who was a Bengali.   I am still fasinated by the diversity in that area.  This was some of the best times of my life.
Please send me an email as I would like to ask you some questions about India.
Jim

[Jim Spencer]

I would like to thank everyone and especialy John Bartley for all the advice on the successful repair of my 029.
I ground a 3/16 groove in the flange of the stud and after installing the stud with JB Weld I drilled a 5/32 hole thru the groove, along side the stud touching the threads in the plastic for about 1 inch deep.
I then used JB Weld in this hole and installed a 3/16 diameter metal screw screwed into the bottom of the hole and touching the stud threads and trapping the groove .   After letting this harden for a couple days I cut the head off the screw with an abrasive wheel.  I then installed the bar and cut up some logs to test everything and I believe it will be almost impossible for the stud to back out.
I believe this makes a very good fix.
If this does not hold I will update the forum.
Jim