iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

minimum tractor size for log skidding

Started by TGofWNY, December 29, 2007, 09:55:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TGofWNY

Hey yall, I am shopping for my first tractor and know very little about them. I want something universally helpful around my acreage for digging , snow removal, mowing, etc. I would like it to be small enough for mowing the yard, and big enough to pull decent sized logs when need be. What should I be looking for in this tractor as far as size ,HP,etc. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks.

Wallys World

I've got a Kubota BX 22 TLB (tractor/loader/backhoe). You can get a mower deck for it (I don't have one I use the JD 445 instead). It is small enough to get around the yard but I have puller red oak 16 feet long by 16 inches. I also pulled a white pine log 36 inch X 8 foot. It pulled it but it was all it could do (and that was flat dragging it).  The only reason I ended up with the orange instead of green was I don't like 3pt. hitch backhoes, JD mounts theirs with a sub frame under the tractor and the Kubota is intergral to the frame. One seat that turns around instead of two. I have run both for my hours and perfer the Kubota setup for the backhoe. (I'd still rather have green!)
Wood-Mizer LT28G25, Wood-Mizer EG10 Edger, Wallenstein Timber Talon log loader trailer, Wallenstein GX640 wood splitter, Wallenstein WP835 Fire Wood Processor, Kubota BX 22 TLB, JD 445, JD Gator, Home made arch, Stihl 024 Super, MS251, MS311, MS440 Magnum & MS660.

snowman

Kinda depends on how often you want to drag logs.If you drag a log now and then and have time to mess with it I imagine anything called a "tractor" would do.If however you want to skid logs on anything like a regular basis I'd say 40hp minimum and look for the heaviest tractor you can get, weight matters in a tug a war with logs. Also get ag tires not those turf things, tires make a huge differance.

stonebroke

Buy a garden tractor to mow your lawn and then buy the biggest tractor you can afford to haul logs. Remember the farmers motto, Too big is just right.

Stonebroke

letsgetitracing

I have 1805 massey 4 wheel drive that has a 3208 cat motor in it that articulates in the middle i use for snow plowing i was thinking of putting forestry tires on it and making a boom to skid logs out cheaper than buying a skidder.

Remember one thing the bigger the tractor the cheaper they get .
Homemade firewood processor, 200 ton log spliter, 322 cat excavator, 966 c cat loader, 3 semis, 11 trailers, 50 ton low boy 12 inch tree chipper 3120xp 394 xp 372 xp 3 365  357 55 rancher 346xp 338xp  stihl 056 mag ms 290 026 echo cs440  4 cs3000's  jonsered 2165 2150

go BIG or go Home

mainiac

I do some logging with a Kubota B7500 which is 21hp on the motor and 17hp on the pto. I built a 3pt platform that I mounted a Mile Marker 10500lb hydraulic winch. I am amazed at what it will pull through the woods, but wish I had a bigger tractor that could handle a regular logging winch. Plus bigger (taller) tires to get me through the snow.

For a first tractor, I would be looking at 30+ hp 4x4. This size can run 95% of the equipment on the market for tractors on one scale or another. Mine is a little to small for some of the things I want to run. ie a chipper that has a feeder on it.

Hope this helps.

Mainiac

Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.

sgtmaconga

I usa a farmtrac 535 with a front end loader. she is a workhorse build from the same dies as the old ford 3000 tractors.
Measure twice cut once

thecfarm

I have 2 tractors,a BX 18hp Kubota,that I call a glorified lawn mower.Works great for mowing the lawn and with a snow thrower on the back.Can't beat it for that.I have tried to do a few things with it out in the woods.Not something that even begins to do it,IMO.The tractor was not designed to do that.I only bought it really to mow with.I have a 40hp Ford that I use for digging
and working in the woods.No comparion between the two.I was looking at a 26-30hp 4wd to replace the Kubota.I feel that would be the ideal tractor.Not too big for lawn work,but not too small either.Go with 4wd for the woods no matter what.It's so much easier.Like what was mentioned,buy a garden tractor for the lawn and one for the woods.
Just depends on how much you will use it in the woods.I myself would not want anything smaller than a 40hp,but I'm on it almost everyday that I'm have off from work.Money will come into the deciding factor too.


Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WDH

I tend to agree with Stonebroke.  Mowing the lawn and skidding logs are incompatible uses because the requirements are at opposite ends of the scale.  If you try to split the middle, you may not be happy mowing the lawn or skidding logs.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

RSteiner

Like others have said bigger is better.  I have a 30 hp. Kubota 4X4 with a Farmi winch on the 3PH.  The one problem with smaller tractors is that they have a high center of gravity usually because of the narrow wheel track.  So, a tractor that would make a good lawn mower because it is short and narrow enough to get in and around things is not good in the woods.

The second issue is tires.  Ag tires give good traction but most people would not want to mow a lawn with them.  Being made for field work they do not have the puncture resistance of a forestry tire.  If you are careful where you go in the woods there should not be a problem.

Before I got my Kubota I used a Ford 8N with the Farmi winch for light logging and firewood gathering.  It was a very good tractor on rough ground and was heavy enough to pull a good hitch of logs.  The tractor was geared a little high for the woods at times.  The Kubota is a little more horse power than the 8N but is not as heavy, 4 wheel drive makes up for that.

I would agree 30 hp is minimum, 40+ would be better.

Randy
Randy

dboyt

You can get by with less hp if you use a log arch.  After I got mine, I was able to easily pull logs that I couldn't budge before with my old 8N Ford.  I've seen ATVs move impressive logs using an arch, but that could give you a fast downhill ride!  To me, weight & braking ability are more important than pulling.  No logs in my patch of woods worth getting hurt over!
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

pineywoods

I agree, trying to do the lawn and log skidding with one machine, you won't be happy with the results. Buy yourself a zero turn mower for the lawn, if money is tight, it's hard to beat an old 8N ford for skidding and they are cheap.  You can even get new (rebuilt) ones. If you are handy with a cutting torch and welder, it's simple to cobble up a pto driven winch. Just don't try to put a front loader on them. A set of forks on the 3 pt hitch works fine for loading logs on to a mill.

1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

stonebroke

One problem with 8n is the brakes. They tend to get oil soaked and don't work to well. Try a little more modern tractor.

Stonebroke

RSteiner

Quote from: stonebroke on December 31, 2007, 10:01:51 AM
One problem with 8n is the brakes. They tend to get oil soaked and don't work to well. Try a little more modern tractor.

Stonebroke

I put new brake shoes on my 8N and they still were less than desirable going down hill with my log arch or trailer in tow.  :o   When moving loads down hill with the log arch I made sure I had a log in tow on the ground to act as a brake.  I must admit I had a ride or two down hill that was more "fun" than I was looking for.

I did have a Wagner front end loader which allowed me to load logs onto the mill or log pile.  The 8N with a Sherman hi/low transmission was a tank in the woods, I have even seen one with tracks.

Randy

Randy

Randy

Dave Shepard

I agree to getting two different machines as well. You can get a good lawn tractor for not a lot of money, especially used. ;) Probably for the same money that you would spend on the mower deck on a new tractor. This will allow you to get a larger tractor that will do much more for you. I would worry about turning one of the overgrown lawn tractors over skidding logs, just not enough weight, even if you are extra careful. I have the Kubota L48, which is 48 HP. I am getting it set up to do some logging. It has good power for the Farmi winch. It depends on what size logs you want to pull out of the woods. If you have a lot of larger logs, you will need a fairly robust tractor. A used 50-60HP 4x4 farm tractor with FEL can be had for what you will spend on a new mini-tractor with all the bells and whistles.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

stonebroke

Something like a JD 4020 would be a good skidding tractor.

Stonebroke

thecfarm

A 4 wheel drive tractor is the only way to go for a trailer behind you.The front wheels will hold you back.I use to take my Fathers Ford NAA,little bit bigger than the 8-9n,kinda scary to say the least.Brakes are not much use on a well traveled woods roads going down hill.I now have a 4wd tractor.What a differance.I control the speed going down the hill now.No problem at all.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

stonebroke

If you get a 100 hp two wheel drive tractor with a fel, Put chains on and then use the fel to slow you down on the real steep parts. A big tractor with chains will outpull a four wheel drive small tractor. The weight of a big tractor makes a difference in braking also.

Stonebroke

Dave Shepard

Of course for 10K you can get yourself  a Timberjack. ;) :D Rereading the OP, he said it was going to be his first tractor. We've already graduated him from that and upgraded him about four times, and he hasn't even bought it yet. :D :D


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Ed_K

 I'm using a 60 hp Landini 4x4 w/loader and 3pt winch, wish it was 90hp. bil runs a 4230 2 wheel drive with double ring chains and 3pt winch and wishes it was 200hp
Ed K

routestep

 I have a JD 990 4x4 with turf wheels. It has 42 hp and a front end loader and forks. The back tires will slip sometimes with a heavy load on the forks, so fwd is good to have. I tend to chain logs up to the bail on the fork frame and then raise the forks up some to get the log off the ground. I think the largest log I've pulled is about 14 inches and 22 feet or so. It will just pick up a 9x12 by 28 ft oak beam.  That said the JD 650 cuts the grass.

Dave Shepard

You can skid a pretty big log, even with a small tractor. Here is my L48 with a couple of oaks I brought out to build a truck rack a couple of months ago. They are both over 40', and around 500 board feet, if I remember correctly.



Those logs were a pretty good load however, and can present a few problems. I caught the butt of this log in a little dip. It broke the lower link pin, it could have turned me over though, as I was moving along at a good clip. Extra care is needed skidding with little tractors.




Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Ironwood

I agree with most all that was previously stated, and I too have used an 8N for skidding, and yes it is very respectable, and if you have a FEL it will give some counter weight if your rear load is heavy. 8N's are great if you don't need to stop fast or are generally on level to reasonably level ground, I have way too many hills, and while I used several over the years, I decided to go modern w/ a small hydrostat. It is generally too light for skidding but man does it work well for what I do. I have considered making a log arch with a hydraulic surge brake tongue and brake axles. As previously stated once the log is up off the ground a reasonable distance getting it moving is generally not a problem, STOPPING it is . I could also skid a fairly large log with may 20 HP 4x4 900 lb. Gator as well.  I was thinking a size between the Tractor arch and the smaller one (by Logrite) would be about right. I would use skid steer tires for durability as well. If I where doing the skidding alot I would look for AT LEAST 30HP 4x4 and flip those narrow rims around to give a wider, more stable stance. And WITHOUT question a HYDROSTAT and FEL (you can always slow a decent w/ a bucket dragging the ground). I may upgrade my JD655 to a 755 or 855 if my dealer comes up with a good used one in the future. Things around here tend to improve once they arrive, not depriciate, so I will always be able to trade my 655 in with little lose of equity for a bigger unit. And I always ALWAYS, have tire chains for everything with wheels on our place. Scrap yards always tend to have big tire chains laying around from dump trucks and equipment. They tend to be beefier and I often reweld many extra cross links in for more bight.


           Ironwood




               Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Woodhog

You have gotten good replies for your question...

Regarding the logging jobs with your future machine dont overlook the underneath section of your tractor choice.

Ground clearance should be quite large in the woods  from a min of 9-10 inches to around
14 to 16 inches for farm type tractors at the lowest points, also many of the machines will have small hydraulic lines, wiring and other plastic pieces including plastic fuel tanks in positions where they can be torn off or punctured when the machine is taken off the field or level ground.

You can lose 1000.00 in one crunch as the machine hangs up on a rock or stump....or a piece of brush tears off a vital piece of the machine that they only designed to operate in a field....

Good Luck

Climber

Hello Guys,
Let me try to help TGofWNY.

His keywords: FIRST, digging, snow removal, mowing ... decent sized logs WHEN need be

1. New or used? I vote for new. Here is why:
   I feel like used decent tractors are not going down in price.
   You can get financing for new much easier then for used.
   I love to brake-in my equipment then when last for much longer.
2. What brand? Ford (New Holland), JD, Kubota. My choice is Kubota. Here are the reasons:
   All leading manufactures of tractors are good.
   You can get better, bigger and more HP for same money from Kubota.
   0% financing for 36 moths – come on who can bit this?
3. 4x4 or 4x2? I think no question here 4x4 IS MUST.
4. Tires. Ag, industrial or turf
   Ag tires are good grip but not acceptable on lawn.
   Industrial not as good grip and still not acceptable on lawn
   Turf tires are bad for grip and only one you can use around nice yard.
My choice turf tires because I can not tear lawn and when loaded whey have traction good enough for me for last 3 years.

5. How many HP? Any think under 20 Hp is too small. Over 60 Hp not good idea for mowing.

6. Manual or Hydrostatic transition? My choice Hydrostatic.
   Hydrostatic is very (VERY) easy use around house or other structures. Try ones and you will be hooked on it.

Here is my application:
Owner from August 2005
Kubota B7800 HST with front loader cost $15,500 for 36 payments 0% financing $430 per month,
another $5,000 - $6,000 for backhoe
$1,000 - $1,500 for fine cut mid grass mower
It has diesel 30Hp
Turf tires

Running tractor for my tree service company 5 days a week about 45 weeks a year.
Have Farmi JL351P for winch ~ $3,500
AND Wallenstein LX360 ~ $1,400

What am I doing with it?
Falling and pushing trees to the right direction; feeding chipper; drugging, rolling logs;
Holding logs wile cutting for firewood, loading truck with firewood; swiping into bucket sawdust and all crap from the ground; cleaning snow and MUCH more.







Thank You Sponsors!