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Advice on neighborliness

Started by RynSmith, December 28, 2007, 09:18:07 PM

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RynSmith

Our neighbors, who we're certainly friendly with, have horrendously annoying outdoor lights.  There are three of them with no shades and they tend to leave them on (for no apparent reason) for hours at night.  People have told me that I'm crazy to be bothered by this, but I had one such person here and this is what happened:  we went out on the porch after dark and their lights were blazing.  She said "that's not so bad."  I had her back up to the space where our porch rail (4x4) blocked the lights and it took her all of five seconds to say "Wow, that really makes a difference!!"  And it really does.  I'm into the whole 'don't light up the night' thing, because I like to watch bats and owls and what have you, but we also have a really nice view over a valley, with lights in the distance, which is just great to take in.

All that being said, does anyone have any thoughts about how to approach this with them?  I've thought about offering to split the cost of a motion sensor type system; can a system like that be overrided by a light switch?  I do want to be neighborly about this, but it is quite an intrusion. 

Do y'all think I'm too weird about this?!?   ::)



Furby

Yeah, depending on the light source some can be overridden with a switch, but they don't all work properly or will fail sooner when hooked to a switch.
Maybe a simple shield on the lights in your direction will do the trick enough, there are folks around here that use them.

Tom

I don't think you are so weird. I don't like outside "security" lights either.  How to confront them is another question. I don't know the best way either.  Usually I just go clod hoppering in and pick the one that I think will listen an start a conversation about the Lights.  Sometimes it is easier to just say it than beat around the bush.  If you give them your reasons, perhaps you can make bat watchers out of them too.

You could invite them over for drinks of some sort and an evening in the lawn chairs for admiring the scenery and lights far away.  Conversation is great entertainment and we don't do enough of it.

isawlogs


Furby , thanks for the heads up on the longevity of the motion detector on a switch , I have four of them here that are connected to a switch , these are going on five years now .
  If left on they are motion detector , if you flick the switch twice , it is on till you close the switch ... Ya need to wait two minutes before opening the switch back on to have them on motion again .
  I have two outside and two inside .
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

DKinWA

I don't really care for a bunch of bright lights either, but it's so dark around here we had to put one up.  Rather than using a bright white (mercury vapor, I think), we choose the yellower (sodium vapor) light which isn't as obnoxious.  They were more expensive, but they don't seem to be as hard on the eyes and also seem to last longer.  I also put it on a switch so we can turn it off and on when we want to.

If I was in your situation, I'd probably go talk to the neighbor.  As long as you're polite and reasonable the two of you can probably come up with a solution that works for both of you.  Obviously, they feel they need the light, so I'd be thinking of compromises before I went next door to talk to them though. 

Furby

Yup Isawlogs, same issue with my Grandma's big double light on the garage, but it don't always reset.
My parents have one by the front door and it's been replaced several times due to the sensor failure.
They seem to work for a year or so and then slowly go bad until failure. That is a little one incandesent unit.


Why ya have two inside?

isawlogs

A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Nate Surveyor

I have heard of lights like that. Some kid in the neighborhood gets a bb gun, and then the lights don't work.

Do you think any of your neighborhood kids would like a nice bb gun? ::) ::)
:D :D :D

Seriously, gotta talk to them. Respectfully.

Communication is the life blood of relationships.


N

PS I make kind of bad joke above.

Do communicate with them. Maybe a few pies, and a bit of homemade stuff. Then talk to them.
I know less than I used to.

scsmith42

I echo the sentiment about talking to them about the issue.  It will probably help if you approach it as "asking them for a favor" and you understand that they are not under any obligation to fulfill it.

Also approach it from the point of view that they are probably utterly unaware of the impact that their lights are having on you.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Ron Scott

Ditto! to what Scott said above. They probably don't realize the effect their light is having on desired use of your property. It should be able to make some of the compromises as previously stated. Maybe the light can be relocated out of your vision area.
~Ron

Tom

You can't expect someone else to put down their needs for yours.  It takes a special kind of person to do that.  I know how some people are about artificial light, especially urban folks.  Light is a Linus Blanket.  It gives security to those who fear the dark.  It must be a genetic imprint left over from eons of being chased by lions.

I love the natural darkness.  I've spent many evenings in my front yard watching the stars.  The heavens are quite active and entertaining at times.  Wildlife moves in the dark too.  I get deer, armadillos, coons, possums, owls and lots of stuff moving around.  Stuff that we seldom get to see.

Light pollution will keep you from seeing a lot of things that you could enjoy if the light were natural.  When I look to the South,  the sky reflects the lights of Jacksonville and the International  Airport.  The glow blinds your eye to the stars, especially if there is any cloud cover to help reflect the light.  On nights like that, I have to face North or North east to avoid the electric light glow and be able to see the sky.  Even the bright night of a full moon keeps me from seeing the sky, although i can see the ground as if it were day.

Many people don't realize just how pretty "dark" can be, never having experienced it.  The Urban areas are never without light.  The Suburbanites think things are dark but are still living in the glow of security lights and street lights.  The only place were you can experience darkness without going to sea is the deep rural area between towns.  When someone, who is afraid of the dark, moves to one of these areas and installs security lights, it's paramount to putting up signs telling the bears not to cross the property line.  Light is indiscriminate. 

There are two organs in your eye that receive light, Rods and Cones.  Cones are used for daytime vision and are sensitive to colors as well as provide a lot of detail. They don't do well in subdued light though.  Rods are what give us night vision.  There are secrets to looking in the darkness.  The military puts their men in red light or red goggles to preserve night vision.  It takes the Rods as long as 20 minutes to adjust to the ambient light of the night.  Just a flash of white light will ruin the "night vision" and you have to start the acclimation all over again.  To a soldier, it is important to preserve it.  To a civilian, it is important to know what it takes to "see in the dark".  Red goggles will help to develop night vision. Once the time has passed, they are taken off and, like magic, you can see.  Not as good as you can see in the daytime, but you can see just the same. 

To see even better turn your head to the side and concentrate on the peripheral images. There are more rods on the sides of the retina than the center, so, your best night vision comes from using peripheral vision.  It takes training to do this.  The more you practice, the better it gets.

You will be amazed at  how good you can see at night without white light.   White light actually blinds you beyond its edge.   Turn a flashlight on to look at an object and you will be blinded to anything outside of that little white circle.  You will also lose your night vision and have to become acclimated again, another 10 or 20 minutes.  Read about Rhodopsin in a night vision article.  Wikipedia has a pretty good one.

logwalker

Holy Smokes Tom, that was some pretty good reading. I got redirected to the chemical reaction to the light taking only 200 Femtoseconds. I had never heard of femtoseconds before.

Definition:

"A femtosecond is one billionth of one millionth of a second. For context, a femtosecond is to a second, what a second is to about 32 million years.
100 femtoseconds – the time required to travel across a human hair, if traveling at the speed of light."

I read a long time ago that 25% of our energy is expended through our vision. They are always working. It sounds high to me but I remember it came from a solid source.

Great stuff. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Ianab

I like the night too  8)

I currently live in town with the resulting light pollution, but I have lived out miles from anywhere where you couldn't even see a light from another house.

Makes the night sky so much more defined if there are no lights nearby, the sky is so much darker and your eyes adjust fully to the dark like Tom is talking about.

Darkest I have ever been though is a foggy moonless night at the farm where I grew up. We were up quite high and you would often be in the cloud base. I arrived home about midnight and parked my car in the shed opposite the house. After I'd walked out of the shed I realised it was completely DARK. Normally you could pick out the skyline and the outlines of things against the sky. Not this night, it was like being blindfolded. Found my way inside  from memory / touch / feeling what I was walking on.

This pic is one I took one night from the hill above my old house out in the back blocks of Taranaki. It looks like a slightly poor daylight picture, but you can see the stars behind the mountain. It was taken about 5 hours after sunset on a winter night when the air was very clear and near a full moon.



Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Haytrader

Speaking of lights.
It is my theory that we  could save a whole bunch of energy if we didn't try to light up the night so much.
Most US cities are lit up so you really don't need headlights to drive. Wish there was a variable dimmer switch that could be turned down when most folks are home in bed.  ;D


Ryn,

Have the neighbors had these light long? If they have only had them for a short while, maybe there is an issue that has occured you don't know about. Like varmits scaring the Mrs. or talk of vandals in the hood. So, take the advice given and invite them over for drinks and a burger and have that visit.

;)

Haytrader

breederman

  That reminds me of a little event we had a couple of years ago.  Now we live back in the woods, away from the road and the house across the road sits up on a small hill. An old gent, who we kept an eye on, and helped out, as he had no family close, lived in said house. Every sunday night he would go to town to have dinner with his "lady friend" he would come home around eleven o:clock and back into his garage.  When he did the head ligts would shine in our bedroom window and we would know he was home safe.
  A few years ago the old boy was moved to Calif. to live out his last days with his daughter and the house was sold to a young couple who both worked second shift. They would come home EVERY night around eleven thirty and back in to their garage. Seeing as they were young and all and didn't require overseeing, we didn't get the same comfort from their lights in our bedroom.  Soo one day just talking and being neighborly, I told them how we had watched for the old boys "signal" on sunday nights, and left it at that.  They picked up on the hint and started driving in front ways, we don't know when they get home and all is well. :)
Together we got this !

slidecreekdan

We live 5 miles from the closest power line , so we dont have that kind of problems.
  Lights of the city, and barking dogs set me off.
  The best thing to do is be nice.  Always be nice. Most good neighbors will listen.

thecfarm

Yes,I would be nice too.I would invite them over for coffee at night and have thier lights on and show them what you don't like.Tell them you enjoy the dark and the wildlife at night.There must be a way to adjust the lights or use differant wattage,differant lights.There are so many differant types of lights now.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Jeff

I feel for you and hope what I have made for you will help you out. If not, its helped me. ;D

(You need to be able to view java applets)

Have fun. :)

https://forestryforum.com/ryn/
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Faron

There you go!  Just invite the neighbors for an evening of shooting fun.  Bet you don't even have to bring up the subject! :D
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

ARKANSAWYER


  At our house just a few years ago you could not see a single night light.  Pretty dark in the area.  Then the County paved the road and city folks found it to their liking and started moving in.  Every one up in at least one or two night lights.  Now going home it lookes like a city street.  But at the farm it is dark.  Folks come over and notice how dark it is at my house ( just ask Furby) and ask why we do not have a light for security.  Well what they do not understand that no light is a better security then light.  Because you could not just drive by and see what is outside or where it was at of if we are even home.  So if I look out side and see a flash light then I have a target.  :o  There is an enormus about of energy used to light the night.  Entergy that we really do not need wasted.
  I have to have one here at the Sawmill because of my insurance would not cover if I did not have a night security light.  So I got the smallest one I could.  I hate the thing and it cost me $6.50 a month to light the night.   >:(
ARKANSAWYER

rebocardo

> ask why we do not have a light for security.

That is what the 870 is for  :D

I live in the city, but, it is pitch black outside my house because almost every neighbor has motion sensor lights. I would invite them over for a board game and sit them facing their   own lights  ;)

Barring that, I would just go over and talk to them and offer to buy the motion sensor stuff and to install them. At $12-$20 a fixture it would be worth it if it bothers you. Set the timer to 5 minutes so they think it stays on long enough and they feel secure.

RynSmith

Well, guess I should know better to ask for advice and then not turn my computer on all weekend!  I appreciate all of your responses and feel a lot better knowing that I'm not the only person who likes darkness at night.

Thanks for the great diversion Jeff - that had me  :D  :D  :D
I'd actually thought of the BB gun alternative Nate, but it would pretty obvious who the culprit was, as we're the only house that can even see the lights smiley_thumbsdown

Haytrader - you're kinda on to something there, which may be part of the problem: coyotes.  The lights aren't new, but the neighbors are on their second Jack Russell in two years; the first one is deceased and the new one has survived one attack so far.  But they don't let the dog out at night anymore and the lights are still on.  Me, I'm rooting for the coyotes on this one  smiley_devilish

So I guess I'll have a go at asking for a 'favor' and hoping that they don't take offense.



Tom

I have a better idea, Rebocardo.  Instead of buying them motion detectors, install spotlights on your service and shine them into their windows.  Burn them all of the time, 24/7.  It would be expensive for a week or so until they ask you over for a cup of coffee to discuss turning the lights out.  :D

isawlogs


Just before you leave to go over , dont forget to close the lights .... they might want to have you sit facing them .  ;) ;D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

ely

i was reading this waiting to see that response, it was arkansawyer that gets the prize.
that is exactly the same thing that we do here. dad always said that theives do not like the darkness.
i have killed lots of varmits outside at night without a light just like tom described, looking at them sideways and using a double12.

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