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WWII Mystery--Need some good detectives

Started by Faron, December 23, 2007, 01:49:33 PM

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Faron

I am working on a little project for some old friends of mine.  Cleo, their father, was a WWII vet.  He served in Belgium from about July 1944 through February of 1945 when he was injured.  I am not clear whether he came home then, or later.  He served in the Battle of the Bulge, and was awarded a Bronze Star.  When he came home, he would not talk about his service to anyone, and as far as we know carried his story with him to his grave a few years ago.  A few months ago, his widow had a message left on her answering machine from a French speaking Belgian man.  He had in his possession a rifle with Cleo's name carved in the stock.  He had done some searching, and called on the chance this was the right family. The problem is, his French accent is not understandable at the point when he gives contact information.
So, we believe this is Cleo's rifle, but don't have any way to find it.  The phone company will not trace the call records because there is no criminal activity.  So far our state representative can not or will not use any influence to help.  What we need is a way to find this person in Belgium.  I do not know if someone who speaks English with a French Belgian  accent could make out what he says or not.  The family has tapes of the message, and would be glad for anyone who thinks they could help to listen to it.
An organization or political figure with a little pull to get the phone company to check the records of the call might help. The family is working on gettting information to a historical society in Belgium.  Maybe some of you have some ideas that haven't been covered. 
I would sure like to help find this person.  The family is aware that it could be a scam, and if they find him will procede with caution and make sure things are as they should be.
I am betting with the range of experiences we have on the Forestry Forum, somebody will come up with a useful piece of information or a good lead.  Thanks.  Faron
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

John Bartley

Faron,

There will likely be better responses, but ... my Mom speaks both French and English. I have a good friend who is Dutch and speaks both Dutch and English and understands Belgian (as well as a couple of other languages). If you don;t get any better offers, and can email an audio file to me, I will be happy to see if they can help. It's surely a worthwhile project!!

cheers
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fuzzybear

   My wife is French and understands alot of the different dialects. She learned English through me and I can understand alot of "Franglish". If you could e-mail a copy we could try to decypher it. I also have contacts in England with the V.A. that could help to try and track down any info. 
   If you haven't tried already,  contact your local chapter of the VFW. They can look into the service file and will also help the family receive any medals and awards that are due. You would be suprised how many of us Vets have not accepted medals that were awarded to us.
   If his service file is not sealed they should be able to give you information on where he was stationed and what actions he was involved in. Exact details won't be there but you will have a general idea of what he lived through.
   Any way I can help the family of a fellow vet I will.
   Donovan
I never met a tree I didn't like!!

Furby

I assume since they went to the phone company, that they don't have a phone # from caller I.D.?

isawlogs


Faron ... I am as French as they come .  ;)   PM me if you would still need any help . I will give you my number .
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

mike_van

Several years ago we got a letter from a retired Army colonel who had been on vacation in Belgium, someone had approched him there with an ID braclet from the war. The colonel tracked us down with my dads service # and last name, he sent it to us in the mail.  Dad had been wounded in Belgium near the end of the war.  Nice of that guy to take the time to do all that.  Good luck Faron, I hope it works out for your friends.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Faron

Hey, thanks for all the offers to help. 8)  The copies are currently on one of those mini tape things.  I talked with my friend's wife, and they will try to get it on a cd or something that I can get on my laptop.  I will send all of you a copy then and see what we can get done.  Furby, no caller ID, and my friend's mom didn't tell the kids about it for a while, so the star 69 or whatever that is was out of the question as well.

This vet was as rough a character as you could ever want to meet.  He was a logger and farmer, and often a hard drinker.  I think a lot of that was a way to deal with his battlefield experiences.  But he was always good to me and my kids, and I always thought a lot of him.  Nothing would make me happier than helping find this rifle.  

I can imagine him, upon being told "This rifle is government property, you will not deface it in any way!", or something like that, then carving his name on it. ;D
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

rebocardo

> The family is aware that it could be a scam

It could be, but, it is most likely not.

Some people forsake the money from the item and try to find the original owner because they appreciate their freedom.

An example would be I found two barrels of Vietnam era helmets, which I sold on E-Bay for $70+ each, but I was able to return three of them to the original owners/wearers because the names and ranks were intact on labels.

One name was almost easy. I figured anyone in the Navy just might still be involved in boating. So, I searched his name on the Internet and then started with all the matches at boating clubs. His helmet was unusual and when he described it, it was on the way back to him.  :)

I bet that rifle has an oral history to go with it and has been in the same family since 1945 and you have someone that wakes up thankful that he is free every morning, wanting to return it to the man responsible for it.


Don_Papenburg

Faron , your state rep is probably wanting to keep guns out of the hands of civilians so he will not help.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

sgtmaconga

you might try the Belgium embassy. they have people who would love to help with this.
Measure twice cut once

Faron

Don, funny you should mention that.  One complaint I have with this guy is he once sponsered a bill making it illegal to fire a firearm within a mile of a school.  Seems some nervous Nellie mom heard someone shooting in the distance as she delivered Junior to school and complained to him.  He jumped right on it.  Only thing is many schools in rural Indiana are not in towns, but are out in the countryside.  His bill would have banned hunting within a mile circle of every school in the state.  Our local elementary school has a bird hunting preserve a half mile away.  In fairness he withdrew the bill after an uproar over it, but I thought he should have exercised better judgement in the first place.

sgtmaconga, good idea.  I will pass that along.

rebocardo  I figure you are right.  I wouldn't be eager to help if I thought otherwise, but it is still wise  to make sure they know just what is going on.

13 years ago another assistant volunteer fire chief and I were faced with commanding the response to a terrible fire that claimed the lives of 6 small children.  By the time we extinguished the fire, helped  the state fire investigators , recovered the bodies, dealt with the flood of news media, and tended to our own firefighters, I was wiped out physically and emotionally.  Near the end of the day Cleo, who lived nearby, put his arm around my shoulders and said, I've been thorough things like this in the war.  You will never be able to forget this, but you will learn to live with it."  I doubt the tough old cuss ever knew how much that gesture meant to me or how it helped me in the months to come, but it meant an awful lot.  It is one reason I want to help find his rifle. 
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

faronskid

I too appreciate all of the help you all are giving Faron on this project.  Cleo was very good to me and my sister when we were young.  I used to go to his house and he would fix me bacon for breakfast. ;D  I thought that was the best bacon in the world.
5 rugrats = no dull moments here

scsmith42

Faron, my older brother was an exchange student in Belgium, and he is very fluent in Flemish and French - all spoken with Belgian accents.  He still travels back and forth to Belgian every year to visit his adopted family there.

If you'll add me to the distro list for the audio file of the tape, I'll see if he can decipher it.

Scott
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Faron

I now have a copy of the message.  I will PM those of you who want to take a listen with my E mail address.  Contact me, and I will send it to you if I am computer savvy enough to do so. ::) Thanks  Faron
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

DanG

Quote from: Faron on December 23, 2007, 09:45:38 PM


  Near the end of the day Cleo, who lived nearby, put his arm around my shoulders and said, I've been thorough things like this in the war.  You will never be able to forget this, but you will learn to live with it."   

There are all kinds of reasons for people to not talk about their war experiences.  Many times, I suspect, it is because they didn't do all that well.  It sounds to me like Cleo was the real deal, though. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Faron

Hey, DanG.  Yeah, I suspect he was.  Perhaps you know the answer to this.  What are the reasons one was usually awarded a bronze star during WWII?  I kind of understood it could be for individual meritorious conduct, or for the actions of a unit as well.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

DanG

The Bronze Star is awarded for individual valor.  I don't know how it was in WWII, but in Vietnam most medals were downgraded from the recommendation of the sponsor.  This was usually due to the writing skills of the sponsor, or a lack of supporting evidence.  In my book, the recipient of a Bronze Star is a bonafide National Hero.

A very small percentage of heroes are ever recognized by the government.  As a usual thing, their buddies are the only witnesses, and they all did the same DanG thing the day before.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Riles

The Bronze Star can be awarded for meritorious service in addition to valor. The long time rumor (can't vouch for the accuracy of this legend) is that the billeting officer that handled sleeping arrangements for the aircrews flying into Grenada got the Bronze Star. That's the billeting officer in Barbados. Awards for valor include the "V" device.

There really seem to be three tiers of military decorations these days. The participation ones (I went to war and all I got was this stupid expeditionary medal), the political ones (a DFC for the first C-17 aircrew to drop supplies in a combat zone), and the high level, usually posthumous ones.

I've seen a lot of political decorations and tend to think that the people who don't talk about them are the ones that earned them.
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

Haytrader

Sure not trying to hijack this thread.
I have a Bronze Star with V device.

DanG, in our era,  we just didn't say much, no one was interested.
Haytrader

DanG

I hope you are suitably proud of that button, Haytrader.  To be recognized by one's Country for a deed that "reflects great credit" is a very, very special feeling.  Those recipients who have earned the honor know it, and those who have not do, too.  The fact that some people have recieved medals that they didn't deserve, doesn't in any way diminish the importance of the recognition for those who earned it.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Faron

Here is the problem for those of us who never served, but are grateful to those of you who did.  I never know whether it is polite or appropriate to say that I would be honored to hear whatever you might want to tell about the events resulting in your receiving your medal, or any other experiences any of you had.  At 50, I am only a little younger than you Vets, but that few years made a great deal of difference in life experiences.  I was in elementary and high school when you were serving our country.  Some of us were always in your corner.  No Jane Fonda movie has ever played in our home.  That is merely symbolic, I know, but my daughters always knew where I stood.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

pigman

Faron, if asked that way I am sure most of us would be honored to tell about our military experiences. Just don't ask us how many babies we killed or if we smoked pot everyday or if we enjoyed raping all the women.
Like Haytrader I recevied a medal in RVN. I used it as a bath tub, a cook pot, a digging tool and as a head protector. They made me give it back when I left  "country".  rebocardo probably sold the helmet on Ebay
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

DanG

Faron, I ain't ever had much doubt about where you stand, either.  Good solid support at home is more important than any medals they might pass out.

I can tell ya that my little button came when I scared the ever-lovin' bejeebers out of a Major one night.  He had wanted to fly a night combat mission, so he assigned himself to be my co-pilot.  As luck would have it, things didn't go as smoothly as one might hope, but we got the job done and he was the happiest camper I ever seen when we got back on the ground.  I didn't know he had submitted anything until I had been back home for six months.  I never was aware that he was even impressed by anything, other than his hands were shakin' too hard to fill out the log book.  He didn't ask for a rematch, either. :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

WH_Conley

I think a lot of us are in the same boat as Faron. Have 2 brothers that were over with you guys. Can't speak for the rest of the world, around here you had more support than the media would have ever let out.
Bill

Paul_H

Quote from: Faron on January 10, 2008, 09:01:19 PM
I never know whether it is polite or appropriate to say that I would be honored to hear whatever you might want to tell about the events resulting in your receiving your medal, or any other experiences any of you had. 


Faron,

I wondered sometimes too but have taken a chance a few times and heard some truly interesting stories.I worked with a cranky old catskinner that was decorated during WWII while he served in the Navy.My dad had told me that Bill never talked about it but when the time was right,I asked him and he told me about pushing mines away from the ship with a pole.

I know a 80 year old man that was in the German Army during WWII and he shared his experiences from being drafted right through to surrender and postwar life in Germany.He lost his Mother,Father and older brother and for a couple of years had lost track of his younger brother who was only 12 at wars end.


And at the Pig roast,Bob(pigman) told me a few stories of his time as a soldier and one that I think of often since then is how they were stuck for days with no food up on a hill and how they caught rainwater on their ponchos.(apparently the taste was terrible.)  :-X
Bob ,like the other two men I mentioned shared their stories with no boasting,but matter of factly.
They have my respect.

Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

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