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? 4 the bibbyman

Started by ely, December 19, 2007, 09:09:12 AM

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ely

and anyone else with experience on the FANCY mills.
i have a manual mill and i can feel what the saw is doing in the cut. most times i know before something happens. my dad always says , whats wrong? when i start looking around the log while sawing. i think i could saw lumber even if i was blind, just look at the log dogs on my mill for the proof ;D.

my question is on the power mills like my dad has an lt 40, can you guys that have ran these mills for so long get a feel for them and how they are cutting. or do you think you are too distanced from the actual cutting by all the controls. i have not sawed a board on my dads mill but i tail for him all the time. i am the man that sharpens his bands and i always tell him he is pushing them too far before we sharpen. he says they seem to cut fine. imo, he runs the mills at too slow of a feed rate. it is almost like he is cutting the same wood several times over in each pass.
   we talked alittle last night while quarter sawing some burr oak, i finally had him turning up the speed a bit.
i am not sure i am right but i just watch the flume of saw dust on the chute and as long as it looks correct i would have him increase speed of the cut. i would do this until the engine started loading noticably. he was amazed at how well it cut and how much smoother his boards were.
i feel the first indication on the power mill, that the blade was dulling would be the quality/amount of sawdust that is coming out. i listen and feel with my mill as much as i i see things happening. i think dad has just slowed the feed rate down in the past so he can keep pushing the bands thru the wood as they dull. thanks for any input on this guys.

slidecreekdan

ely,   My first mill, I still own,  is the LT-40 Man.  And I love it. You can feel everything, I agree.
   Then came the Super with remote.  I can still feel whats going on.
   I sharpen my own, so I try to cut as fast as possible, but just watch the boards.
   The minute I feel anything strange, I will change blades. Easy way to assure nice lumber.
   So, tell Dad to speed up a little.
   Hope this helps.

Bibbyman

Yes,  but it takes some getting use to. 

Our mill has another complication in that it's an electric mill.  The motor does not show any signs of loading like an engine would.  I guess you could just push it until the main belts spun; the blade jumped off of you blew a breaker someplace.

I run the blade about 1/16" out from the shoulder on the rollers.  When I'm suspecting my blade getting dull or maybe pushing too fast,  I listen for the blade to start hitting the shoulder on the roller guides.  I know to slow down and think about time to change the blade.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

pineywoods

Hey guys, here's a cheap simple answer to monitoring the mill performance.  I got the idea off the forum way back years ago, tried it and it works. Get yourself a bicycle speedometer. Mine came from walmart for $9.95. Attach the small magnet to one of the bandwheels (mone's on the driven wheel) and mount the small pickup wherever you can find a convenient spot. glue, haywire, tywraps or whatever. Mine's a digital readout, turns itself off until the bandwheel starts turning. Gives a readout in miles per hour or kilometers/hour. Normal cutting on mine show a blade speed of 49-50 mph. If you push the cut, the speed will show a noticeable drop even before you can tell it by the sound.  Bibby, your electric motor will slow down a little before bad things start happening. It would be very noticeable on a bicycle speedo. I find myself sawing by watching the readout, a even a blade that's getting dull will register.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Dave Shepard

I run two different LT40 Manual sawmills. One is a 24 HP gas, and the other is a 15HP electric. I am very aware of how the mill is cutting, and can usually predict how the cut came out even before I pull the board off the cant. I like walking with the head, and would never desire to have a remote station. It is mostly sound, but the feed will slow down if there is a problem as well.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Tom

Yes, you can tell how the mill is working, even with the larger mills.  Sawdust is your best guide.  The engine is another. 

An experienced truck driver listens to his engine to shift.  He uses his tachometer to verify.

It's harder when you remove yourself from the area of the blade, but it can still be done.  Sawyers operating from remote stations still find a way to judge. 

I think that the main thing for a sawyer to do is allow himself to push his mill and find out what it will do.  There is no reason to have a larger mill if you don't use the capacity.  There are a lot of sawyers who don't allow themselves the luxury of finding out what their mill will do.

Yep!  Give him a push now and again. :)

Dave Shepard

Tom, sometimes when I am taking a slab cut or just taking off some junk, and I know the face below isn't important, I will turn up the speed a lot, just to see what will happen. In pine, I pretty much know what my limits are, factoring in temp of log and how long I've been running the band. I sawed out some basswood a while back, and I couldn't get it to wander, I could cut as fast as the engine had the HP.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Bibbyman

Quote from: Tom on December 19, 2007, 12:54:05 PM
Yes, you can tell how the mill is working, even with the larger mills.  Sawdust is your best guide.  The engine is another. 

I think that the main thing for a sawyer to do is allow himself to push his mill and find out what it will do.  There is no reason to have a larger mill if you don't use the capacity.  There are a lot of sawyers who don't allow themselves the luxury of finding out what their mill will do.

Yep!  Give him a push now and again. :)

We have a tube connected to the dust chute so we don't normally see the sawdust.  I watch it coming out of the back side of the cut but I'm not sure what that's telling me.

I've seen many sawyers hit their own peak and it hardly matters how much faster their new mill will cut.  Even in our own case, our LT40 Super is capable of producing more than we can handle so why push it?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Larry

For a long time I did exactly what most sawyers do...watch the tach, watch the band move back, watch my hydraulic meter, and most important listen to the motor (can't see my sawdust either).

One day a member suggested putting a bicycle speedometer on the wheel to keep track of the band speed.  It was a cheap idea and I tried it with skepticism...never looked back.  With my mill, bands, and 16 horsepower my magic number is a band speed of 46 MPH.  If the band is running faster I can increase my feed speed.  If the band drops between 44 & 46 MPH the band will dive when going through a knot...slower than 44 MPH it's a whoops.  I still pay attention to the other indicators...pretty hard to make a mistake in straight grain red oak but when the going gets tough my eye is on the speedometer.

Dave, I was talking to a member that cuts a lot of basswood few years ago.  He was telling me how fast he could cut with a 15 degree hook.  Course I had to try one also.  When I was at a 46 MPH blade speed, the carriage was moving so fast I couldn't catch it...finally did catch the carriage bout half way cross the neighbors farm when it ran out of gas. ;D :D ;D :D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

pineywoods

Larry, very well said. My blade speed is a little higher, but I have 25 hp. I use 15 degree blades also, sharpen my own, I use them on everything.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Faron

I am going to get one of those speedometers.  I have wondered for some time if I am getting some quiet belt slippage.  That ought to tell the tale.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

Radar67

Here is a picture of Pineywood's setup.

"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Bibbyman

I actually bought a speedometer.  It's not doing me any good as it's in the tool box.  My problem is,  with our Command Control station,  I figure the only way I could read it is if I ran the wires all the way to the console. I thought I may be able to run a telephone wire or the like through the cable track. I started working on it and just didn't get it done.   
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Tom

You have an overhead that you can hang a lot of stuff from, Bibbyman.  The only thing I can find to hang stuff from is clouds and they won't stay put.  :D

pineywoods

re : bike spedo   I busted the dinky little magnet holder trying to fasten it to the bandwheel.  Stole a refrigerator magnet off the kitchen fridge and duct-taped it to the bandwheel. If it passes within 1/2 of the pickup, should still work fine.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

submarinesailor

Tom,  You need a better Sky Hook.  Take my word for it, they work better then clouds - NOT. ;) :o ;D

Bruce

Cedarman

As a sawyer you just have to act like a kid. A kid usually is thinking, "what if".  Thats why they get into trouble, but they are usually learning a good bit of stuff too.

A kid would wonder. "What happens if I keep increasing the speed of the mill?"
"How fast can I go and still saw good stuff?" 
That's why they are such a whiz at comperters and us old folks are afraid of hitting the wrong button.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Tom


logwalker

Tom, are you the manufacturers rep for that SkyHook® system? I am mildly interested. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Tom

No, just the Director of Exposure.  I have the picture.  Never saw one work.  ;D

gharlan

I am wondering what does a director of exposure do exactly? does one ever get arrested?

Tom


Foxtrapper

Quote from: gharlan on December 20, 2007, 12:51:54 PM
I am wondering what does a director of exposure do exactly? does one ever get arrested?

I guess that would depend on what was exposed, and where it was exposed at ;D.
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