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Bandmill fer sail, CHEEEEEPPP

Started by Fla._Deadheader, April 28, 2003, 05:51:26 PM

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Fla._Deadheader

Making mudpies SUXXXXX!!!!  We went on our first job today. We shoulda left the mill home and took the DanG Cuttin torch!!!!
  We worked on 2 logs ALL DAY !!!!!!
  Anybody use Bi-metal blades ????????
  The onliest way we could keep the blade reasonably flat, was to run a hose on the blade, right where it entered the log, and KEEP it there !!!!
  We wuz walkin in water all day!!!!!
  Feed speed wuz 8-10 minutes per cut !!!!
  Of COURSE the customer wanted 3 X 12's only 16 feet long, for now, thank you. We will pull in the 20 footers later !!!!
   Any of y'all that think you can cut any log, come on down.
   I ain't REAL sure a MD or Swing mill would cut this crap !!!
   Worst part is, by the time I got home, I wuz Purple. This stuff is Pink till the water gets on it and then dries some !!!!!

This stuff wuz SO wavy, the ants were skateboardin on the hills and hollers and doing flips from the downhill runs they would get from the hills !!! ::) ::
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Neil_B

What the heck were you cuttin'  ???
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Fla._Deadheader

The customer melted down 14 trucks, 9 dozers and 11 draglines. He poured them into cast iron pipes, and then decorated them to look like Australian Pines. !!! :D :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Percy

QuoteThe customer melted down 14 trucks, 9 dozers and 11 draglines. He poured them into cast iron pipes, and then decorated them to look like Australian Pines. !!! :D :D :D :D :D

Havin a good laff here....sorry no disrespect intended...Ive had days like that....allthough Im still not sure what kinda wood is pink,uhh lets not go there. Ive cut some miserable dry sitka spruce and seemed no matter what I did, the blade was wavin like the Queen. I coulda done better with an axe. Oh well, how much for the mill???Heh ;D ;D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Jason_WI

Sounds like you need a 8 or 9 degree hook angle for that tough stuff. That is what I use to cut hemlock cause those knots are like stone.

Jason
Norwood LM2000, 20HP Honda, 3 bed extentions. Norwood Edgemate edger. Gehl 4835SXT

Fla._Deadheader

I think it's really Tom's fault. He just sharpened all my blades. ;) ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D  

Really, I've had several messages from Tom tonight, He hasn't a clue, and he's cut some of this !! :o ;D ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

biziedizie

Harold at the end of the day isn't it just great to laugh about your day. :D :D :D I've been frustrated to the point that I've thought about fireing everyone on the job but now I take everything in stride and just laugh and think about the things that could screw up the next day. :)
  I think that as I age I get mellow and just don't care about things that can drive me nuts!

     Steve

Fla._Deadheader

It wouldn't do any good to get tore up about it. Biz. I wuz just hopin to make a payday, wuz all ::) ::)
  Would be nice to know what's goin on, though.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

KiwiJake

I've milled Australian black wood so hard with my Peterson that you could hear the metal from the the blade tang, kinda makes your wonder if there IS steel in the log. No problemo. 8)

Fla._Deadheader

Hi Jake. Well, just fold 'er up and come on over!!  :D :D You oughta love this stuff. It probably makes the same sound on the band blade as your round blade ?? :o ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

ARKANSAWYER

  Have you thought of turning the blade around the other way? ;D
   Naw! really you need some 8 degree 0.055 blades from WM and I hear that they have a 4 degree for really hard stuff.
  You should try some large dead standing hickory.
   I bet you look good in pink.
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

solidwoods

Check the blade alignment.  
If you don't have a gap/space between the back of the blade and the rollers, there could be pressure on the back of the blade causing it to act like it's got Demons.

Back those gold plated blade guides away from the blade,  spin the wheels a couple of times and make sure the blade is tracking in the correct area that you use on your machines wheels.

Also if you have a blade that acts wierd, tag it and let the sharpener know, he can check the  set before he sharpens it.  If one side is off, you could have a tread allignment tracking thing going on.
JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

Fla._Deadheader

Well, we pulled up and left the job. We tried all the things everyone suggested, and then some. I'm not proficient at bandmilling, so, we did some things that would seem downright silly, and that didn't work either.
  We were cutting from the butt end, and the rule is, cut from the small end if at all possible. We turned 1 log today and it sawed better. Still, 1 log, of 14" dia, X 16 feet long, should NOT take 1 1/2 hours to saw.
   The mill is probably in the best alignment since we started using it. When you enter the log, the blade starts singing. As you increase the feed, if you don't flood the blade with water, it will REALLY sing. As you move through the cut, the blade will "Bow" between the roller guides. It will lag behind the guides, not bow up or down, although it will do that also.
   We trimmed the ends of the log to freshen it. We were pretty careful to "level" the log, so it removed the same amount from all sides, as we turned it.
   It took about 10 minutes to make each cut. The travel speed was as slow as you could make the head go. After getting the outer wood removed, you could speed way up to 7-8 minutes per cut, at an 8" can't.
   We tried 7 blades to cut 3 logs. I really believe a circle mill of some sort, is all that will make time with this stuff. The logs were down about 2 weeks before we started.
   It took us an hour to hose off all the red mud from the sawdust? and water mix.
  We gave up??  If anybody wants a good, long sawing job, bring yer mill and i will take you to the pile.  I would guess there is 25-30 thousand bdft waitin fer ya !!! ::) ::) :o
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jason_WI

Are you using those Swedish silicon blades from Suffolk??? ??? I tried one of those and I was not impressed at all with the way they cut. With there low tension the blade tends to follow the grain of the wood, wandering all over the DanG place. I had also noticed the blade would flex between the roller guides. It seemed as if there was no strength to the blade at all, kinda like a limp noodle. It's hanging on a nail that is labled JUNK next to my bandmill.

When I cut Ash or cedar I will put dish soap in with my band lube. I will use a cup or so for 5 gallons of water and I will flood the blade. It helps cut the pitch build up on the blade.

I have cut an old dried out iron wood beam before without problems. The blade would sing and sparks were shooting but it cut straight. I use .045 Doublehard with 9 degree hook from Woodmizer for most of my cutting.

For the wood you are cutting a 1.5", .055 from Woodmizer would be your best bet. But since you already pulled your stakes ..........

Jason  
Norwood LM2000, 20HP Honda, 3 bed extentions. Norwood Edgemate edger. Gehl 4835SXT

Fla._Deadheader

Hi Jason. Yeah, we're using Suffolk blades. Only problem is, we also had 2 WM blades. One brand new, 1 that was re-sharpened. They would cut for a longer period of time, but, not a bit faster. Only have .042 blades. May get a .055 dbl hard and test it.??
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Fla._,
For tough cutting wood, you would have better results with a HARD-BACK blade. They will not bow as easy and will cut a straight saw line. Also, your saw guides should give support to the back of the blade to reduce the length the blade has to bow , keep the guides close to the log.  If the wood is hard, there should be less hook angle.

solidwoods

Oh my Gosh!

7-8min for a 16'L --8"wide cant.  You tried many blades (there goes that idea). I didn't catch the log age since cut down, but that wouldn't couldn't add up to these results.  Wheel/blade alignment is good... ??? ???
I understand the blade bow direction (That sounds like really dull blade (no) or blade is out of wheel alignment to the point of pushing on the blade guide flange(that would show as no space between the back of the blade and the guide flange) , which puts pre cut tension on the blade (bad way to start out), make the cut and more tension happens... in a used blade it will bow up/down, and probibly will smoke in a softwood with no water lube, a sharp blade put in this predicament can run flat but show even more flat bow)  but what is Lag behind the guides?  If it's coming off the guides, and going rearward, alignment off and guides a little low.  I could see this happening on a mill with wide blade wheels.  a mill with 1.25 wide wheels, the blade will fly off the wheels  (and into the record books) sorry Harold I know it's not funny.
But the good news is Band saw run problems are few,  and they are all solvable.  
Only via type it's slow and inefficient.

Are both of your wheels adjustable for blade allignment?

I would love to get my hands on that one to solve for a Low Country Boil Dinner.

JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

Fla._Deadheader

Hi Jim. The wheels are in alignment. We adjusted every thing we could. The "lag" means that the body of the blade is bowing back, behind the flanges. The flanges are the only thing keeping the blade from going off the back of the wheels. When we start the cut, we have about 1/8th inch from back of blade to flange face. During the cut, the blade rubs the flange. When a knot is encountered, the blade will bow, flatways, and cut behind the plane of the rest of the blade. That's why we have to travel so slow.
  If ya REALLY wanna lose some sleep, here's the clincher. A duller blade cuts cleaner and flatter than a sharp blade ???????, until it has to be changed ???
  When we get to the end of the cut, the blade will rise or fall from the cut line, very little OR not at all.??????
  Sometimes the log will bow up or down, but, not so severe that it causes any more problem than we already have????

  I'm calling the blade experts tomorrow and see what the general consensus is.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jason_WI

Could be that you need more set. What are your blades set to currently?

Jason
Norwood LM2000, 20HP Honda, 3 bed extentions. Norwood Edgemate edger. Gehl 4835SXT

Fla._Deadheader

We set the blades at 22 thou, each side.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

solidwoods

Blade tension OK?  Maybe the device used to make the tension has bent or lost its ability to hold tension?
JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

Fla._Deadheader

Blade tension seems to be fine. We have checked everything everyone has told us about. I wish I could send out samples !!  Before we took on this job, the customer brought a couple of logs to the mill site. A smaller dia. (8") sawed pretty well. It bowed pretty bad, but, the blade went right through. The larger (14 inch and up) are what's giving us trouble. Arky and others suggested thicker blades with less rake. We did increase the rake from 9-10° to about 12°. That MIGHT have some effect. Maybe the little Honda 24HP can't pull the blade with the increased rake???????
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Neil_B

Hey Fla_D,
Could it be you need a hardwood set and rake? 8 degree and 19 thou set. Is there a lot of sawdust left on the cant under the last board sawn? Could be that it's so hard and you are making finer dust, that the gullets aren't taking away the sawdust quick enough. Maybe with the 12 degree rake and 22 thou set you are taking off too much shaving for the gullet to take away ???. Increase to a wider set like 30 thou ???.
this blade thing is a real art that I too have yet to master. ;D
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

D._Frederick

Fla._,
I would question if your blade tension is correct, I run 2200lbs of force between the wheels using 1 1/4 carbon steel blades. Most saw mfg. have a blade tension gage that clamps on the blade and using a dial indicator tells how much stress is applyed to the blade. They have a chart to convert to tension that the blade is under.
If you have set to 0.022 inches per side, should be enough for mid size logs, may need more if you have the blade buried in wood.

sawmill_john

Sorry to hear of your problems, I don't pretend to know alot about bandsaws, but are the blades heating up?  Could it be that the log has tension and its pinching the blade?  Just a thought, I'll pass on telling you to get one of our saws.  But I did send you some names of customers in FL.
I didn't see in the posts what kind of tree are you tring to cut?

John

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