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Command control, dragbacks and working alone

Started by AusLJW, December 14, 2007, 04:41:56 AM

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AusLJW

I work alone for most of the time.  My mill is a walk behind and I offload to the off side of the mill (opposite the log loaders) to accumulate then go through the edger.
I am thinking of upgrading the mill and am wondering about command control.  I have enough machine hours not need to be on top of the action and I certainly would like to get out of the dust/noise.
I would have to step forward from the contols to offload from the mill. No big deal.  I think that would work. 
Has anybody any comments on board dragbacks and working alone.  Does it work.  My mill isn't a super hydraulic and has no standard drag back.  A drag back can be added but with the 1/6hp electric I don't think it would pull the cat off the bacon (upgrade rather than modify)
I have concerns that the dragback might affect alingment on the cantilever mills.  Can anyone alay my concerns
I know I am always asking questions not answering them but I hope the questions are of general interest.  I appreciate peoples time and effort in replying.

regards


york

Hi,do some reading on this FORUM and you will learn that on your older mill that dragback will not work.....have watched,other mills with DG and i don`t care for it....i bought it for my TH and then,never put it on....Makes your sawing area,a very busy little place....just my two cents..
Albert

MartyParsons

Hello,
The board return has no issues with alignment. The Standard Hydraulic LT40 has the optional Board Return available. 1" thick 12" wide is what Wood-Mizer suggests is the max for this mill. The Super LT40 and larger mills have the 3/4 hp Lesson Motor, we have customers pulling 7 x 9 cants back to the return table with no problems. As for working alone and using the board return, it is a safety issue with Wood-Mizer. The LT70 works real nice with guides and is much heavier duty.
DR Buck has a Board return on his LT40HDG25 maybe he will let you know how its works.
We do many shows and use it. My wife Lisa runs the mill and I stand at the board table and recieve the board as it comes back. I think it helps with the flow of material and saves you some steps through out the day.
Hope this helps!
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Dan_Shade

I have one, it works pretty good.  I really wish that woodmizer had a retrofit kit to put the power option for it on the standard LT40 hyd.

you could get pinched with a board pushing back if you were working alone if it got all crooked.  it's definately a bigger issue with the super with the bigger feed motor.

one thing i've found is that the dragback keeps my offbearers where I want them, behind the mill.  the other thing is most of the time, they start grabbing the board and pulling it off because they are faster than the head gigging back.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

BBTom

My mill is a super with command console. I use the dragback all the time when sawing at home.  My stacks and edger are at the operator end of the mill, not at the side. 

I am not sure if dragging back would help or hinder the material flow when stacking on the back side of the mill. 8 ft boards drop down on the return table but any longer you would have to either lift the board over the console, or pull the board out past it. 

If you have to stack beside the mill, I would hesitate to recommend it.  If you can rearrange your stacks to the end of the mill, the dragback works great.
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

raycon

I use the drag back when sawing 4/4. Saw alone a lot.
It saves a lot of lifting once you get a material flow that works. Cants go off one
end of the mill (use the roller) and boards the other (operators side). Slabs w/bark go diagonally off and then get stacked for
future firewood or put through the chipper.
Lot of stuff..

JV

When I purchased my LT40 hydraulic in 2005, I got the dragback option and the roller table option.  I use them when I saw by myself and like them.  You have to buck the ends of the logs square or the board will come off at an angle.  When you gig back you need to watch how fast and pause occasionally or the board could hit the control station.  It's not a total solution, but I think it's a good option and saves me time and effort.  When you are working with an offbearer, it keeps them back when you can see them.
John

'05 Wood-mizer LT40HDG28-RA, Lucas 613 Swing Mill, Stihl 170, 260 Pro, 660, 084 w/56" Alaskan Mill, 041 w/Lewis Winch, Case 970 w/Farmi Winch, Case 850 Crawler Loader, Case 90XT Skidloader, Logrite tools

Bibbyman

Mary and I both saw alone from time to time.  Mostly me sawing alone now where before I was full time, Mary sawed alone much of the time.

We have the LT40 Super with Command Control and use the dragback a lot of the time.  But we often don't drag the board completely off the cant.  What I do is drag the board about half way off the cant, then stop the head and step to the right side of the control box and pull the board off.  I'll either drop it on the slildeback table or stack it or edge it.  Depending on how I feel.

Even with Mary is offbearing, I'll still run the dragback much like I was alone as I'll drag a flitch back and then set it on the edger infeed while she's pulling a board off the back side of the edger and stacking it.

I'll often just put the first flitch on the edger infeed roller table and let the others that need edging lie on the mill.  Depending on how big the log is and how much edging pills up,  I'll stop when the cant is squared out and edge the flitchs.  Then I'll saw up the cant.

When I'm sawing common farm lumber and I'm sawing through and through I'll saw all the way to the deck and then drag the whole stack back to the table.

Without the guide fingers of the LT70 design,  the dragback will not reliably push board, flitches or slabs off the mill without someone there to take hold of the loose end and guide it.  This is especially true when the logs are not bucked square. That's why it was meant to be used by a sawyer with an offbearer. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Chris Burchfield

I work alone 99.99 percent of the time. I use it off loading to the right of the Command Control box. Loading onto a trailer. Flitches are rolled off to the loading arms as I do not have an edger. Once the cant is sawn I saw the flitches. Slab material I drag off to the Left. I know board return is an issue for WM, but I only drag it back to where I can get my hands on it.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

DR_Buck

Board drag back is WONDERFUL !    I use it almost all the time.  The retrofit kit is completely manual.  The drag back is either up or down.  The biggest part of the cost in adding the drag back kit is the board return table.  A motor can not be added ***** due to the clearance issues on the engine mounting plate.  According to WM, a different plate is used when you buy a Super with the board drag back installed.   On the standard LT40 with the option installed, to put it up you need to insert a holding pin.  I leave mine down all the time.   As far as working alone, I have a walk behind (you can not upgrade to a command console on a standard 40hyd)   and I place my right hand on the board to guide it as I walk back with the head.  It doesn't matter if the end is bucked square or not since I am guiding it.

As Marty said, Wood-Mizer recommends only 1x12 maximum board to be dragged back.  However. I routinely pull some pretty heavy slabs and 8/4 boards without any problems.   EVERYTHING comes off the back end of my mill since the drag back was installed.  Except stuff I'm going to edge still goes into the loader arms so I don't have to handle is more than necessary.    The only thing I've noticed since using the drag back is I wear out motor drive belts a little faster.   To solve this problem, I keep 3 or 4 on hand.  At around $6 each, it's a real low cost way to get production rates up.


P.S.   I'm working on a design idea for raising and lowering the drag back from the walk behind console operator position.   I'll post when it's perfected.

GO FOR THE DRAG BACK.   YOU WILL NEVER REGRET IT!


*****      Breaking News.    The WoodMizer motorized dragback does fit.  8)   I ordered the whole motor assembly and it fit right in with no problems.   I had to use the wire for the laser as the power source since my mill did not have the dragback wire in the harness.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

sparks

The comand control is not an option that can is added to a mill. The comand control is ordered when the mill is built for about $2500.00. Folks have added it to their mill but the cost is quite high. Aproximate cost $5500.00 to $6000.00. You have to change out your entire pedestal, adda power box to the head, replace the upper and lower wiring harness, add a cat track and harness and run new hydraulic lines and wiring.   
\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

woodbowl

I work alone and love it. I put homemade hydraulics on my manual WM, but no drag back. I really need a dragback most days.

Quote from: DR_Buck on December 16, 2007, 10:19:49 AM
I'm working on a design idea for raising and lowering the drag back from the walk behind console operator position.   I'll post when it's perfected.

I'd like to see that.  ;)
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Dan_Shade

I think you could use a choke cable pretty easily, I just haven't fooled with it.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Bibbyman

Quote from: Dan_Shade on December 17, 2007, 11:11:06 AM
I think you could use a choke cable pretty easily, I just haven't fooled with it.

I'd think a choke cable would not have enough stroke.  I was thinking may something on the lines of a pull start rope and handle with a knot in it where the dragback would be in the up possition.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Dan_Shade

there are a lot of different choke/throttle cable thingies on the market, but I haven't researched it too much, I must admit.  It's in my "I should do soemthing about that" list every time I use it.  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

woodbowl

What about a flex shaft simular to an outboard motor steering with a pull handle, next to the engage lever autoclutch? 
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Tom

I like the idea of a rope with a knot and stick tied on one end best.  :D

logwalker

Yeah Tom, I bet you have a couple of those dohickeys on your "New Blue".  :D
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

woodbowl

Tom, can I have the dragback off your new mill? I've got a spare stick and rope I can trade you for it. What kind of knot did you want tied in the rope?   ::)
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Brucer

I thought this would be a good time to resurrect this topic, because ...

Quote from: DR_Buck on December 16, 2007, 10:19:49 AM
Board drag back is WONDERFUL !    I use it almost all the time.  The retrofit kit is completely manual.  The drag back is either up or down.  The biggest part of the cost in adding the drag back kit is the board return table.  A motor can not be added due to the clearance issues on the engine mounting plate.  According to WM, a different plate is used when you buy a Super with the board drag back installed.

I'd been thinking of adding a dragback to my 2006 standard hydraulic last fall, but the manual upgrade was going to be a real pain. I priced out the cost of buying the necessary "spares" for motorized version, and the price was pretty good (and you don't have to buy the table if you don't want it). Then I read this thread and gave up on the idea.

This spring it was becoming more and more obvious that I really did need a dragback, so a week ago I called Marv at WM Canada and asked him about price and availability. He happened to have a manual unit in stock (minus the table), but then he asked if I wanted a motorized version. Seems he had a slightly used one that he'd pulled off a trade-in (new customer didn't want it).

I told him I'd gladly take it, but I'd heard that you couldn't install one on the standard hydraulic because of clearance issues. "Nonsense", said Marv, "if it won't fit, send it back and I'll eat the shipping costs." I picked the unit up last Tuesday evening and had it fully functional yesterday morning.

The 2006 sawmill has the mounting holes already drilled in the saw head. The control panel has a knockout to mount the switch. The only thing that isn't there is the wiring. Marv had warned me about this and suggested I simply tie-wrap a couple of wires to the outside of the wiring harness. But I like things neat, so I poked around a bit and found a pair of unused wires running through the harness -- numbered at both ends just to make things easy. From what I can tell, wires 19 & 20 were intended for the lubemizer upgrade. These wires already had the proper connectors at the motor end, so I only had to mess around inside the control box. I had to remove the black wire from the ground post inside the control box, but other than that it was pretty basic stuff. Marv suggested connecting the postive lead from the control switch to the unused circuit breaker directly below it, which made the wiring even simpler.

One last point thing to be aware of -- if you've got a manual clutch lever, you'll have to change the guard under the engine in order to mount the dragback. As luck would have it, I had already installed an autoclutch, and that came with a two-piece guard. All I needed to do was remove the piece under the engine and the dragback motor nestled right in there.

I'm not too worried about overloading the carriage motor or drive on the mill. I saw mainly timbers, and only produce 1" flitches as a by-product -- and it's all softwood.

That's step 2 of my production upgrade plan successfully completed.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

DR_Buck

QuoteI told him I'd gladly take it, but I'd heard that you couldn't install one on the standard hydraulic because of clearance issues. "Nonsense", said Marv, "if it won't fit, send it back and I'll eat the shipping costs." I picked the unit up last Tuesday evening and had it fully functional yesterday morning.


Now that sheds new light on the subject.   :)    I bought a motorized cable (used in electric auto windows) for $12 from Surplus City I was going to try and adapt.  But., if I can make the WM parts work, all I need is the motor and lift parts.  I already have the complete manual dragback and auto clutch.   My 2003 appears to have all the correct holes for mounting it.  I need to get a hold of the parts list for the thing so I know what to order.   

As far as wiring it, I think the wires for the laser option are in the harness.  I have the Lubmizer, so I can't use those wires.   If necessary, I may run a 'fish' line through and pull in new wires.   I already have a tach wire tie-wrapped to the outside of the harness that I would rather have inside.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Brucer

The good news is I can get you the parts list and accompanying diagram.

The bad news is the one piece that's different on the motorized version is the mounting bracket for the dragback arm. I didn't expect this (I've got the parts list for the manual version as well), but the motor mount is quite complicated and won't attach to the manual bracket.

The other bad news is the laser has only one wire running to it (at least on my 2006 mill). All the other accessories have a ground wire running from the control panel to the device, but the laser does not. That means you'll be short a wire to operate the dragback arms.

I can only speak for my mill -- 2006 standard hydraulic with 28 HP EFI Kohler engine -- but there was a comfortable amount of clearance above the dragback motor. I believe the 25 HP Kohler is physically the same. If you want to check, the dragback motor projects 1" above the top of the dragback arm when it's in the raised position (tight up against the bottom of the frame under the motor). There is a heavy metal bar under the engine mounting plate that is directly above the motor. As long as you have just over an inch of space between this bar and the bottom of the frame (when the engine is at it's lowest position), you shouldn't have any clearance problems.

I'll PM you about sending the parts list.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

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