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Am I being realistic with this idea?

Started by jrokusek, December 12, 2007, 11:26:23 PM

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jrokusek

I'm having a bit of a crazy idea - at least that's what my wife tells me.  We're thinking of building a different house this spring.  It won't be but a mile from where we live right now.  One of those things where you almost outgrow the house you are in and and could probably live just fine where you're at but the timing is good for us to get a different house.  Anyway, the housing market is actually pretty good where I'm located.

So....I'm thinking of buying a planer/molder and making all the trim and molding for the new house.  That's not necessarily a crazy idea itself, but I would also need to BUY the lumber to make the trim.  I have a homebrew sawmill but don't think I can find the logs, cut everything, dry it, plane it, and turn it into molding fast enough.  I'm looking to make the trim from either maple, aspen, poplar or something similar.  I'm leaning toward poplar or aspen since that seems to be the rage in this area right now.  Same tree family anyway, isn't it?

I'm looking at something like a Woodmaster, RBI or Logosol machine.  Other brands would be considered too but these are the ones I have checked out so far. Would any of you guys be willing to shoot me a ballpark boardfoot price for any of these 3 type of lumber?  I want to put pen to paper and see if after buying this lumber, buying the machine (and a large dust collector) if I would save ANY money by doing this myself.  I guess if I break even that would be OK too.  I'd still have the machine in the garage just waiting for my next woodworking project.  ;)

Am I being realistic?????

scsmith42

Normally speaking, I tend to justify a tool purchase by the $ that I save by doing it myself.  However, if you limit yourself to only making moulding and trim, I doubt if you could justify the purchase of a moulder...

I've owned a Logosol PH260, and I just bought a Baker M412.  Personally, I think that the Baker is a lot more machine for about the same $.  But these are still in the neighborhood of 12K, and I don't think that you'd spend that much on trim, would you?
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

jrokusek

I was thinking of the smaller brother to what you have:  Logosol SH230  for about $3400 or so.  Not opposed to making flooring or other stuff...just not sure yet.

scsmith42

Hmm - for $3,400 it's almost worth it just for the "I did it myself" feeling, not to mention having a new tool left over when you're done! 

I'll kick you a PM with some suggestions re pricing.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

jrokusek

Thanks Scott - appreciate the help!  I watched the RBI video today and that looks like a nice molder/planer too.  Dust collection looks like it could use some help though.

low_48

If you are just going to do the molding, you should consider something like the Jet jpm-13. It costs less than $1000 and does a very good job with the 3 knife head. They have a large number of stock knives available. The real down side of this machine is stock prep. It is just for the profile work.

Greg

Another thing to consider is resale value.

If you buy a planing/shaper machine, be it logosol, jet, or baker get all your woodwork done, then can sell it back a year to someone used for ~ 90% of the new value, I'd say its a no brainer. Of course that assumes you would want to get rid of it after your house is completed...

Don't know how well these types machines hold their value, so thats a big if.
Greg

Larry

I don't think you can break even just figuring the cost of wood versus the cost of ready made moulding.  The big outfits can utilize almost all of the raw lumber while the little guy has lots of waste.

If your determined to make it yourself I would buy a Belsaw off Craigslist/eBay for $300 to $600 and have at it.  With a sharp knife they will make just as good moulding as any machine.

This one has made nuff moulding for four or five houses.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

brdmkr

I have a Woodmaster 18" planer molder.  I haven't used it that much yet, and have not used it at all as a molder.  I have planed a few hundred board foot.  So far it seems like a good machine.   I think they can be had new with all the bells and whistles for about 2500. 
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Handy Andy

  I say go for it.  You only live once.  A neighbor of mine made his own trim with just a 3 1/4 hp router in a table using the mlcs molding bits.  I have used their handrail sets to make those.  The big thing is that you can't stop when you are running a board, as it leaves a dark mark. Get someone to help so they can pull from the other end and keep it moving as you are getting reset to push the board through.  Use featherboards to keep it even.  I'd make the flooring too.  But it would be great if you could saw the lumber. 
My name's Jim, I like wood.

SwampDonkey

In my area you couldn't get the molding you wanted unless you had a carpenter do it. SO you might as well get the machines and stock to make your own, provided the machinery isn't a fortune and you have a lot to make. It's almost hard to justify it if your going to limit yourself to making a bit of molding and then have the machine sit. Just sit down and do some figuring with machine and stock and time invested versus the guy that does it for a living. You should be able to come up with a linear footage to do the $$costs on. Might be harder if it's one of these plan as you go projects I see that takes about 20 years to complete. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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jdtuttle

 :) I have a WoodMaster 18. I love it. You can have everything you need for around $2500 to $2700. I am currently making and selling moulding to local contractors. Poplar colonial casing is about $1.20 per ft. The big thing with these machines is you have to take your time & you end up running it through several times before you get the moulding. First you plane it to size. Then you need one straight edge. next you change the moulder to a gang rip saw & rip to size. Next you set up a moulding jig and run the moulding through. Don't forget to run the back through first for your relief cut. I know it sounds like alot of work, (and it is) but if you have the time it is great watching the moulding come out after you send in a plain board. I'm going to buy the PH260 next year. But I will still have the WM as a dedicated planer & rip saw. Don't hesitate buy one.
Have a great day

jrokusek

Thanks for the info everyone.  The post by jdtuttle makes me think that this is indeed possible.  I've made trim and molding and such with my Hitachi M12V router but really don't want to make more than a few pieces with a router.

I think I found a local guy with some soft maple that may work out OK.  We've been exchanging voicemails with each other but hope to have a price soon.  :D

jrokusek

In case anyone is interested in a follow up - I can get kiln dried soft maple for $2/BF from a local guy.  I looked at my house plans and did my best estimating and math and figured I need about 256 BF of lumber for the baseboard and trim (768 linear feet).  So, about $512 for the rough lumber.  All of this is just a ROUGH estimate at best.

I still have to get a price to see what maple baseboard and such costs locally to see if it's cost effective.  If I compare it to the $1.20 poplar casing the answer is NO, definitely not cost effective.   If my math is correct the baseboard and trim will need to come in at about $4 per linear foot to break even (if I buy the Woodmaster 718 machine).  I can get a different machine like a Grizzly or Jet for quite a bit less but I really like the Woodmaster so far. 

Now if I decide to make my own flooring that changes things a bit.  Just need to determine what my time is worth and If I have enough time available to do this type of thing.

Sprucegum

Time spent building your own house is called "sweat equity"

Its not an expense - its an investment  8)

ely

but only if you intend to sell the house later.

Osric

Just an FYI on the Woodmaster...I got a info packet from them the other day.  You can get the 718 with the Pro Pack (which includes the sanding drum, bet board, rip saw, choice of pattern knives, etc.) for 2350 right now. (through Dec. 31)

If you step down to the 712 which is only a 12" planer rather than an 18", you can get it fully equiped for 1,800.

I also see these come up on eBay every now and then.  Sometimes a 718 will go for around 1,000. 



I've decided to try my Jet planer as a molder and see how it works...if it doesn't work well, I'll be saving the pennies for a woodmaster.

jdtuttle

Sounds like you want the moulder to pay for itself in one trim job. Remember you'll have the planer /moulder after you finish your home for future projects. Or just to have. It's a great tool to have around anytime. If you recover even half your cost it's a win win situation. It may just be me but I buy tools whenever I can :)
good luck
Have a great day

ErikC

 My wife has been talking about doing a similar thing, buying a moulder. Why not? One saying I have always heard is "good tools always make you money" and I have seen it to be true. There seeems to be no reason to spend more than a couple of thousand dollars to get going, and that's not bad if you'll use it. There is a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself, that's worth quite a few dollars to many of us!

Erik
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

sperry

I did it. I didn't think I could. When we were looking at trim in the box stores I thought there is no way we can afford $4-5 lin ft. for oak trim. So I bought a 718 Woodmaster. Already had enough red elm cut. I made beefy looking 3/4" trim thats alot nicer than can be bought in a store. I had planned on selling the 718, but I decided I can't part with it. It is alot of work though. I wouldn't do it again unless I was getting paid for it.

jrokusek

Quote from: sperry on January 07, 2008, 05:31:14 PM
I did it. I didn't think I could. When we were looking at trim in the box stores I thought there is no way we can afford $4-5 lin ft. for oak trim. So I bought a 718 Woodmaster. Already had enough red elm cut. I made beefy looking 3/4" trim thats alot nicer than can be bought in a store. I had planned on selling the 718, but I decided I can't part with it. It is alot of work though. I wouldn't do it again unless I was getting paid for it.

How did that red elm look for trim?  I can get lots and lots of elm for nothing.  I have had issues with it drying straight though.  Then again, I'm trying to dry some 2" slabs that are 12 - 17" wide or so. 

sperry

Awesome!  If there is no knots in it it dries pretty well. The knots make it bow bad but if you can keep the twist out of it, you can nail the bow out of it. You can shoot nails right up to the end without splitting. I love it. Looks just like Oak.

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