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3 Phase Woodmizer

Started by AusLJW, December 12, 2007, 03:40:02 PM

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AusLJW

For those of you with electric powered mills.  Do you use the clutch to stop and start the mill for each cut or do you keep the blade moving between cuts.
If you do keep the blade moving does this affect blade life.
Are there other differeces between engine powered and electric mill that are not obvious?

Regards

AusLJW

Norm

I keep the blade engaged almost all the time. If I'm going to be waiting any time between the next cut I shut off the motor. If you keep the clutch engaged to stop the blade the spinning pulley will burn the belt over time and cause it to break.

I have not noticed much difference in blade life but I've only run an electric WM.

As for differences I don't breath fumes, it starts every time you turn it on, fuel costs are significantly cheaper and maintenance costs are less. Downside is you need 3 phase or a phase converter on a single phase line that has the capacity to handle the amperage draw.

When going mobile the extension cords are a pain. ;)

mike_van

On my homemade 10 hp, I push the stop button at the end of every cut. Just what I've gotten used to doing, it's right there in front of me, bring the head back, change the height/turn the log, whatever, then push the start button. I never kept track of blade life, but I'm happy with it, I'll sharpen some at least 8 or 10 times.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Dave Shepard

I stop the blade as soon as I am out of the cut, every time, regardless of whether I am running the gasser, or the electric. Both mills are manual, so I am not going to be going back into the cut immediately. I have not seen any problems doing this.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Bibbyman

We start the mill with the motor clutched.  We then engage the clutch and make cuts until we're ready to turn a log or some other delay over a minute or so.  Then we'll use the clutch.  If it's going to be much more than a minute,  we turn the motor off.

Belt life suffers with the motor is clutched.  It's tough to keep the belt at the right tension and adjustment for the AutoClutch option if the belt is wearing out fast.  The reason the belt life is shorter on an electric mill with a clutch is because the motor is always turning at top RPM – something like 3200 RPMs. where an engine (at least on Wood-Mizer mills) are just idling along at 500-800 RPMs.

Other obvious advantages to a motor are that they are much cheaper to run,  almost no maintenance,  quite and no fumes, initially they cost less for similar power, motors tend to last a lot longer than engines, and are less expensive to replace.

One difference you may not have thought of is that the motor does not slow down or make any sounds of being under load as any engine would.   I got use to listing to the engine to know when I was pushing the cut too hard.  It's not nearly as easy to tell with an electric motor.   Now I tend to listen to the blade.  When it's pushed too hard or getting dull,  it'll start pushing back against the shoulder on the guide rollers.

Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Don_Papenburg

Mike van  , If you are stopping an electric motor every time you exit then restarting again to saw  you are running your electric bill way up  .  A 10 hp electric uses a lot of juice to kick it into motion  as apossed to just running without a load for a few minutes.  Might want to check an old habit.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

mike_van

You'd think so Don, but it's still cheap  enough I don't worry about it. I don't saw everyday for sure, but I've had some times I did a thousand ft/day for a week or more, some planing too, get the bill the next month, 30 or 35 dollars.  Most months it's around 20. Wish I could get my house down that low!!!! :D
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Don_Papenburg

Wow thats low .  You better hook your house up to that meter.  Mine is always over 75
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

eamassey

About electric motor power for the blade and clutches.  After working with and on industrial machines for many years, I think the electric motor should stay on unless you won't be using it for more than 20 minutes.  But this requires a "real" clutch.  I don't consider a slipping v-belt (or multiple v's) a very good clutch.  Is anybody using a disc or multi-disc clutch?  They are generally spring engaged with air, hydraulic, or electric release, and give a clean no-rub, no-burn disengagement.

Dave Shepard

I agree, eamassey, although the sudden acceleration from 0-full speed may be too much. I wonder if that is why WM opted to use the other system. Probably just using what they had. How would you brake the band wheels with an air or electric clutch? I bet a Horton air clutch for the fan on a big truck would work, the fan is supposed to draw something like 40 HP.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

submarinesailor

I wonder if Wood Mizer or any of the other manufacturers have thought about a soft start or multitap system.  It would make quite a difference in the starting torque applied to the system.  And if you are on a demand type electric meter, it could make a big difference in your electric bill.

I still like the idea of running one on a VFD/VSD.  Most of them have soft or programmable (ramping rate) starts built into them.

Bruce

MartyParsons

Wood-Mizer uses the soft start. I think it is called the 3 Y Delta system. The LT40 Super Electric can be equiped with the Auto Clutch option or have the Manual clutch. The LT70HDE25 has no clutch. The LT70 mills are usually set up for production and there are short times getting the log on the mill, turning and etc. We have a good # of these mill that I service in our area and the customers are quite happy with the operation of the mill. It is always a question if they go from a LT40 with a clutch to the LT70 but seem content after they get some time on the LT70. If you have 3 phase power and do not need to be portable electric is great.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

easymoney

mike-van says that his electric bill runs 30-35 dollars a month for his mill. i wish we had those low rates here in middle tennessee. the last commercial service i had up to nearly a year ago had a $40.00 minimum wherther i used any electricity or not. maybe that has something to do with the top man with tva just getting a one million dollar a year raise. >:(

Bibbyman

I'm looking at our November REA bill for the mill.  There is a $25 "Service Availability" change and a usage charge of $73.20 for a total of $98.20 for the month.  The service availability charge also gets so many KWHs so if you use very much more than the minimum,  you really don't pay the service charge. 

About a year ago our REA went from $10/meter to the $25/meter but lowered the $/KWH above that.  They said it was because they had so many meters out there that never used over the minimum and some only occasionally during the year.  Yet they still had to maintain service.  Our bills didn't really go up.  But recently they've raised the rates.  But it's still a bargain compared to fuel prices!

Last month we sawed quite a bit and considering we have a 25hp 3ph mill, 10hp 3ph edger, 7.5hp 3ph hydraulic unit, a 5hp 220v single phase blower, refrigerator, fans, electric chain saw, lights, and small travel trailer hooked up to it.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Dave Shepard

A $100 a month to run your mill setup is peanuts compared to what it costs us to run a fuel powered setup. For me to saw 1 mbf it takes $10 in gas and $20 in diesel fuel, plus whatever for lights and the edger. I think it is time for that 60HP phase converter we've got kicking around. ;)


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

AusLJW

Thanks for all the input.
I started sawing with the intention of offering a mobile service.  Over the past couple of years I have done less and less mobile stuff.  I have a largish stock of logs under sprinklers and relatively regular orders. 
It seems more profitable to stay in the yard and cut my own logs.  I have 3 phase available so it would appear electric is the way to go. 
Don't think I want to worry about a home conversion of my LT40HDD.  Sell and upgrade.  Might be different with the edger.  Has anyone any advice on converting a WM edger from 25hp gas to 3 Phase electric.

Regards

Bibbyman

Quote from: AusLJW on December 13, 2007, 09:42:35 PM
Thanks for all the input.
I started sawing with the intention of offering a mobile service.  Over the past couple of years I have done less and less mobile stuff.  I have a largish stock of logs under sprinklers and relatively regular orders. 
It seems more profitable to stay in the yard and cut my own logs.  I have 3 phase available so it would appear electric is the way to go. 
Don't think I want to worry about a home conversion of my LT40HDD.  Sell and upgrade.  Might be different with the edger.  Has anyone any advice on converting a WM edger from 25hp gas to 3 Phase electric.

Regards

Sounds like the right thing to do.  I'd give Sparks a call on the conversion of the edger from gas to electric.  At one time they had a real good deal on a 3ph edger that they had only a few hours on.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

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