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Stacked cant

Started by bandmiller2, December 10, 2007, 06:19:23 AM

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bandmiller2

Looking at logdog's photos reminded me when you bandmillers have a good sized cant on the mill how many boards do you cut before you remove them from the top.My offbearer moves at slightly less than warp speed and with that puter setworks i hate to slow down.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Cedarman

When sawing ERC, I like to leave all the boards.  The reason is that I can keep the bottom cant from bowing.  The boards on top tend to bow one way while the cant bows the other.  This way the lumber stays a more uniform thickness.  I usually saw through without turning. 
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

cantcutter

I turn until I have a cant and then find the best face to slab boards off of. I do not off load until I am done milling the boards out.

Qweaver

That's fine for those that have power up and down, but for a manual mill that's a lot of cranking.  In any case powering up and down after each board seems like a lot of wear and tear on the system.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

thecfarm

I have done that a couple times on my manual mill just because I wanted to and to see it there was any time saving.Just like Qweaver said it's alot more cranking up and down.I also have to remember where I am on the scale rule.I just get to the end of the board and crack it up just alittle to clear the cant on the way back.I stop and remove the board and pull the head back and drop it down and off I go again.It's a habit now.I can really go right along with it now.I know a puter can do it faster and better,but a manual mill is probaly all I ever wiil have.I only saw for myself.When I saw one at a time I only have to glace at the scale to know where I am,I don't have to remember if I'm at 3" or at 8".
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

woodmills1

I find that I usually have enough time to cut one, raise over it and return, then start the second cut.  While the mill is making that second cut I remove and stack the top board.  If my stack or temporary storage is close I can make it back to the head before the cut is finished.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

LOGDOG

For the same reason (bowing) that Cedarman mentioned - that is why I did it on some of these big cypress. When I get down say 4 cuts, I'll unclamp, let the stack sit down if it needs to and re-clamp.

LOGDOG

pineywoods

I saw just about everything through and through, and don't pull off any boards. for the same reasons mentioned here plus one good reason that hasn't been mentioned. If you saw solo it saves a LOT of steps. I use the fork lift to lift the entire stack off the mill. Now to you young whipersnappers, that may not seem much of a big deal, but when you get to my age, you will realize that there's just so many steps, bends and lifts left in the ole bod. Conserve them ;D
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Tom

I've done it for fun, for when I'm alone or when the off-bearer is busy with other duties (or taking a break).  When he returns, I drag the boards to him. 

It's a neat thing to be able to do to break the monotany if you have the up/down speed to do it.  I don't favor to do it, even when cutting through and through, because I don't get to see the boards I'm producing.  It's sawing blind and, unless you just happen to see the discolored sawdust, you may be cutting boards with rotten centers, whereas you might have gotten more if you had seen it and turned the cant.

It has its place though, expecially when cutting narrow stuff that the saw is just whizzing through, like a stack of 1x4's. 

logwalker

I saw that way as I don't have a off-bearer most of the time. I don't raise the mill to return. My older (1994) Woodmizer will pull back thru the kerf without complaining too much. I like the added benefit of the weight of the boards keeping the cant from warping. I help the head to return by lifting the ends of the boards as I return.
And at the end of each cut I don't let the blade come out of the cut. All in all it saves a lot of time.
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

WH_Conley

I use the "up and over method" when sawing long stuff, kinda helps the clamp hold down the rest of the cant.
Bill

dad2nine

Well you can only saw down 14" on WM before you have to remove some boards :D

When flat sawing I like to sq up a cant and saw down a board or two into the heartwood then flip once. and saw down to the bed, every board will book match the next. I can get some really cool looking multiple board book matches this way and good pairs (see below). This is assuming the cant behaves while it's on the mill and lays there nice and flat. It seems to work well on logs over 18" diameter. Smaller logs seem to have a lot of stress, I usually get a bow, sawing the last few boards. Then I have to get my butt up on the mill and walk right behind the saw head to get a decent board. My weight pushes the wood down flat onto the bed so the lumber comes out pretty constant in thickness. This plank walking seems to work best then the center of the wants to raise up. I've got pretty used to it, so now I just say walk the plank you scravy dog. I'm not suggesting anyone do what I'm doing, it seems somewhat dangerous. I would like to see WM develop some kind of roller that follows behind the head to push the planks down as the head saw through the wood. I think that would be safer than plank walking and I'm sure it would produce a better (more constant thickness) board faster...





Dan_Shade

the two plane clamp does an excellent job of holding a cant down.  Sometimes, I'll have a "reliable" helper stand on the cant and then attempt to clamp it in place.  it works most of the time.

i normally don't leave the boards on the cant unless I want to have a forklift/tractor operator to lift them all up at once.  I just push the boards off onto the loader if my helpers are too slow
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

dad2nine

Quote from: Dan_Shade on December 10, 2007, 07:39:08 PM
the two plane clamp does an excellent job of holding a cant down.  Sometimes, I'll have a "reliable" helper stand on the cant and then attempt to clamp it in place.  it works most of the time.

i normally don't leave the boards on the cant unless I want to have a forklift/tractor operator to lift them all up at once.  I just push the boards off onto the loader if my helpers are too slow


Sorry to have to ask but what's a two plane clamp?

Furby

It really all depends on what you are cutting. :)
You can't effectively grade saw and leave the boards on the can't.
You may also miss the fact that you have a mis cut and mess up several boards instead of just one and a shim.

The ease of raising and lowering the head is one thing I really like about my mill. :)
None of that cranking some of you have to deal with. ;)

The two plane clamp has a hyd. cylinder that raises and lowers the clamp as well as moves it in and out.
Using it, you can clamp onto a cant and "pull" downward with hyd. pressure to hold a cant straight.

Dan_Shade

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=25940.0  this thread has some images of a malaligned 2 plane clamp.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

DR_Buck

Quote from: Dan_Shade on December 10, 2007, 08:05:02 PM
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=25940.0  this thread has some images of a malaligned 2 plane clamp.

Thanks for bring that up Dan.... :-[      I feel so.........., well I feel something  :D ;)
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

DR_Buck

Now what I was about to post a few minutes ago is....

   I drag back and take off every board when I saw alone or with off bearers.   I usually flip the cant every 2 boards or so depending what the stress looks like.   

When sawing alone, after the drag back, I start the head into the next cut and go stack the removed board.  I usually get back in time to drag the next board off.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Dave Shepard

If I am sawing narrow 4/4, I will slide the blade back through the kerf a few times. This way I can carry more boards to the pile in one trip. I also use the slide method if I have an off bearer, but that almost never happens. Up/down is way to slow to go over the board.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dan_Shade

i normally can't get my sawblade to back up through a cut, regardless of the blade set it seems...

or are you guys talking about sliding back after the board is cut free?


p.s.
You're welcome, Dave ;)
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Cedarman

I saw until the blade teeth just exit the cut.  I can be going full bore and know just when to shut it down so that I do not exit the cut.  If the cant moves just a little or the saw blade moves just a little, then it is not possible to bring the blade back through the cut if you let the blade go out the end of the cut.  I bring the blade back through the cut, sometimes the saw will drag back the boards, by then I am back far enough to grab the ends of the boards and help lift.

I am usually sawing mostly 8', some 10' and some 12'. 

As Tom says you can get a nasty surprise if you don't look at what you have sawn.
But with cedar, the best is usually the heartwood and sawing through and through works very well.  Watching the sawdust will give you a clue as to "you better have a look see".

I dream of having a 2 plane clamp.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

logwalker

I am cutting mostly fir and alder and I do it just like Cedarman. After a couple boards are cut then I start to lift the operator end as I come back. Really helps to hold the cant down. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

bandmiller2

What I have concernes about is binding the band with the weight above it,guess thats no problem.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

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