Felling own timber to sell

[Dieseln2stroke]

I would greatly appreciate some input on my current situation. I have the opportunity to harvest some timber on a 10 acre tract of land. I am currently a full time forestry student. Do you think it would be a good idea for me to go through and mark the timber for a selective cut and sell the logs from the landing? I would mark it,fell it, and skid it out myself. Would it be more profitable to go through a already established logging company?or try to do it myself?I am concerned about trying to find someone to buy the timber once its at the landing.  I'm going to go and walk the land on Friday to get some stand data. Thanks a lot

Zach

[WDH]

In the South, it would not be the way to go.  Not sure about how timber sells in NY.

[LT40HDD51]

If I knew I had a sale for it, Id fire the gear up. Otherwise you might buck em all to 12' logs and have someone say "I wish youd have made them all 16 footers..." or something like that.

Other than that, thats basically how Id do it...

[Rick Alger]

What kind of wood? What's the inventory?

[Tom]

Being a full time forestry student, this would be a prime opportunity for you to use an experienced Forester to handle the entire sale and for you to follow him like a shadow.  There will probably be things that you would learn that you'll never learn in a University Classroom.

I don't know if 10 acres is enough to interest a lot of foresters, but they would be more ameniable if you tell them your situation and that you want to learn.  You may even have someone at the school that wouldl be interested.

Just my opinion.

[Ed_K]

 How about marking-measuring your stand and wait till log prices move back up.You may be surprised how much interest the trees have accumulated.Unless you need some $.Then I vote with Tom.

[Sprucegum]

The way I understand it : a healthy live tree appreciates in value every day, a log laying on the dock depreciates a little(or a lot) every day.

Do the inventory, mark your cuts, find a buyer, THEN make the cuts.

A select cut on 10 acres sound like a perfect do-it-yourself experience  8)

[bull]

I echo" ED K...

[Ron Scott]

Ditto! to what Tom said.

It would be a great practical learning experience for you to work with a "seasoned" forester on the project. Your local Conservation District or DNR Service Forester may be of help with no charge.

You might also check with your forestry school advisor and do the project for extra credit or as a senior project which students often need to complete.

[thecfarm]

If you have never been around this type of work,I would say no.You really need someone to show you the differance between a #2 that would of made a select log if you would of cut it back 2 feet to get away from that knot.There is alot to grading.Alot of money can be made and lost when it comes to grading. I do what you want to do on my own land.I contact a sawmill that buys whatever I am cutting.I use Irving for my pine logs.I have sold to a few other mills that have gone out of buiness now.I sold a 3-4 truck loads of white birch to a turning mill.Made out better there than any other place.You have to do a lot of leg work yourself to find a mill that is buying.The guy trucking for me really helped me out.Some mills on paper may pay you more,but they are harder on scale than the one that is paying a lttle less,but you get more from that one because they are not so hard on grading the logs.There is alot to it and alot that need to be learned.In this region I cut the logs and than when I have a load I call a trucker and off it goes.There is paper work that needs to be filled out for the state here.It is called a intent to harvest.It's a very simple form.You must keep good records for the end of the year report to the state.They want to know what species,logs,pulp,how much was paid for each.Good luck.

[johncinquo]

I was going to do something like that, then I found out I got a better deal selling them still standing, so they could look at them all around and not in a big pile. 

Then I found out I was going to make about $10 doing all the work.  or I could "pay" around $8 an hour to have someone else cut and haul them all out. 

I took the check and entertained myself on other trees. 

[OneWithWood]

What is your future intent with this woodlot?  High grading it now for a quick dollar influx may not serve you well in the future.  Taking out the garbage will not bring you much dinero unless you can take it up the value chain and make something with the wood.  We need more info.

[jon12345]

If you will have the opportunity to do this whenever you want, wait til you've taken silvi and mensi and you'll have a pretty good handle on the situation  8)   Did you do your prescription in intro yet?  Is sally still teaching it?

[rebocardo]

I like Tom's advice as street learning is worth $ just by itself.

Otherwise, it really depends on the trees. At this time of year, in your area (NY) you might be hard pressed to beat a hardwood tree's worth as cord wood, especially if you are leaving the nicer healthy trees.

For ten acres I would be inclined to harvest a few trees at a time and sell as firewood and keep all the profit myself.

Where is your closest mill?

What about the tops?

Can you lease your land for hunting now and harvest later?

Do you own the land or someone is allowing you to cut it?

[Ron Wenrich]

Seems like you've got some pretty good answers.  I have to reflect back on my college days as a forester.  I thought I really knew something.  Even after I graduated, I thought I could handle the job.  But, as soon as I hit the woods, I found out I was over my head.  Thankfully, I was working with a forester with experience.  It took a couple of years of practical work before it all fit together.

Log it yourself?  Do you mean the actual cutting and skidding of trees?  Again, experience is a whole lot better than book learning.  Its much too dangerous type of work to try on your own, and there is a big expense in equipment.

If you're talking about subcontracting a logger, that may work.  But, you have asked questions that certainly appears that you are unfamiliar with the markets.  Current market prices are down.  Some mills don't want logs, so they aren't paying much.  You'll have to do this legwork before you ever think about squirting paint.  The comments about log grades are dead on.  I know of guys in the business for a long time that don't get it right and lose money.  Why would you do any better?

Do an inventory first.  A walk through is a little different than an inventory.  A walk through is where you see what you think needs to be done.  An inventory gives you the data to make certain recommendations.  Walkthroughs are forest management by the seat of your pants.  Don't fall into that trap. 

If you are doing this for someone else, you have an obligation to them to do the best work available.  That's where professionalism comes in, and its never to early to learn it.  That means you get them the most for their money, and you can protect and nurture the stand. 

Again, looking back to my college days, only one of my profs had any practical experience.  They never marked timber for sale, they never logged, and they never bought or sold logs.  Many had a PhD, which is a doctorate of philosophy, not experience.

I like what Tom said. 

[oakiemac]

This is what I like about the Forestry Forum. A guy can ask a good question and get 14 wise and knowledgeable answers with out all the B.S. that you get elsewhere. How can you beat it?

[thecfarm]

Do you mean there are other places for infromation?    That's why I stick around here. There maybe some bickering,but it's in a nice way.You cause trouble out you go.Or you just get a good talking to by the Boss.

[beenthere]

I like, and relate, to what Ron Wenrich said. Especially about the college professors.

When in college, a forestry prof tried to get my roommate and I interested in taking on a pulpwood summer job in SE Iowa. My roommate was completely sold on doing this, and all we had to do was get 8' pulp wood to the roadside and stacked, and a truck would pick it up there. I think $8 a cord, but don't remember that for sure. The money sounded great, if there were no expenses and we could get several cords stacked a day.

We had no equipment...zippo, and of course, no money. : :

Suggestion from prof was borrow a tractor from the farmer.  : :
Nothing said about chainsaws, chains, axes, etc. nor any thought as to where this stuff would come from. Needed a place to stay as well.  : :

I squelched the idea, to the disgust of my roommate and the Prof.
Guess they wanted to see it happen, but I figured it was a disaster waiting to happen and nothing practical or sensible was going to come of it. I instead took a summer job at the Madison Forest Products Lab and spent most of the first summer traveling and doing field work in CO and CA sampling trees. The beginning of an exciting career. Shudder to think what might have resulted in an attempt to bring out that pulpwood. 

Not a knock on college Prof's, but some are not too up on the practical side of the coin.

[Haytrader]

 :

thecfarm,

And how would you know this?

;) :D :D

[SwampDonkey]

If your green at this, I don't think I would take on a job on someone else's land. If you or your dad owned some timberland and either of you already have your equipment for the job, then I could see where some $$ would come in handy for college. I would hope you had some experience or your dad at the logging game first of all. I'm kind of lucky up here as our marketing boards do all the marketing work: they find the best prices, they find and make available the spec sheets, and they let you know if the mill is buying. You can go through a wood broker, which is essentially the same. Both entities take a levy from the wood sold for their work involved. Only difference is the marketing board puts a % back into a kitty for education and management work that is pooled among everyone who has private woodlots. I remember cutting some softwood logs one summer to pay for tuition. At that time tuition and books totaled about $3000, and a T/T load of softwood (spruce-fir) logs was worth $2500 net.  Adds up quick when your logs are 18" plus at DBH and 3 - 16'ers per tree. ;D

I've noticed now with some of the more modern mills around here, they won't buy logs with buts larger than 20". I don't know if this is by design to entice folks to cut wood sooner or if it's a design flaw and they just can't handle them. :\

Good luck with what ever you get yourself into. ;)

[Dave Shepard]

Around here you can get about $10 over your harvesting costs per mbf for pine.  I guess I ain't goin' to college anytime soon. :D


Dave

[thecfarm]

Haytrader,and how would I know this? Because I have strayed but realize this is the place to be.Forgive me Jeff.
Dave,I don't want to start a big debate here,but where are you getting your prices from? Pine pulp you may be right,but that's not done by bf.Is the price of pine logs down that much now?When the tops are hauled out for pulp that just cleans up the woods as I say.

[SwampDonkey]

Dave it works when you only paid $3000 for a reliable skidder 20 years ago, you have a 10 year old reliable chainsaw, you own the wood and pay the trucker to move it with his self loader.  ;D

The trouble with most modern equipment is, it's 'valued' a lot more than the wood.  : Sorry, but that's counter to my thinking.  ;D 

[WDH]

I've noticed now with some of the more modern mills around here, they won't buy logs with buts larger than 20". I don't know if this is by design to entice folks to cut wood sooner or if it's a design flaw and they just can't handle them. :\

The big mills are focused on high production aimed at the average sized raw material.  Cut per hour is king, and really big logs slow them down.  Also, many of the de-barkers are the limiting factor on log size, with 24" max being not uncommon.

[Dave Shepard]

Prices for pine around here range from $100, to $150, at the header, depending on quality. A previous discussion on of logging rates indicated $.13-.175 per board foot is an average cost of harvesting for typical chainsaw/skidder operation. No one is cutting any pine aroun here, that I have seen. If you were high grading the woodlot for all of the select logs and selling to Canada, you could do better, but even those markets have slowed, I have been told. Perhaps a highly mechanized operation can make it profitable. If I am way off base here, don't hesitate to point it out, I am new at this too. ;D


Dave