Home designed hydraulic turner

[cantcutter]

I am planning on upgrading my 1600 within a year, but want to put a hydraulic turner on it in the mean time. I called Timberking and their hydraulic turner for this model is still in development for at least anouther six months. I was thinking I could have one made and was wondering if anybody has any experience in this department? I am not sure that it would work, but think that instead of a chain I would use rubber tires on the turner. Do you think I would just be burning rubber on 3000 lb logs? 

Another thought I had was to use V-belts like an appliance dolly has for navigating stairs. I would mount the belt runners slightly higher than the log bed so that the log rests on them while I was milling; then when I needed to turn the log I could use the cant hook and the belts would make rolling the logs easier. 

[flip]

I'll try to get a couple pics. of my B-20 tonight, shouldn't be that hard as long as your hydraulics can handle a ram and a pump and a couple of valves.  I wouldn't think rubber would be a very good choice as some logs are slicker than snot and the rubber would slip.

[cantcutter]

Yeah Timberking was even nice enough to leave a place on the valve block for the hydraulic turner and the bracket for the turner and ram is on the mill frame, so I was surprised when they told me they are still working on producing a turner for it. Mine is a 2005 so I figured by now they would have it up and selling.
My concern with the chain is finding it and the sprockets for it to run on. That is why I was thinking about tires. Also I thought that if the tires would work that it would be less damaging to the cant.

[flip]

I have and still have a few beefs with TK.  One is slow design change and the second is their web site is so out dated I could cry.  They have so many neat accessories, upgrades and such and you would never know it unless you went there and saw them.  They either need to start taking care of their site and updating it or just hang an 800 number up in its place.  I am probably one of the biggest TK fans out there and it drives me nut wondering why they won't do any updates ??? ??? ???

[cantcutter]

I keep there 800 number handy.... if you need anything you have to call because it isn't going to be on their site. They don't even have any info on there resharp program online.....you have to call them for that. I really like the machine though. Probably will buy another when the time comes.

[Bibbyman]

Back a long time ago I asked for some information from them and for years they mailed out a flyer that advertised some of their other tools.   Then it stopped coming.  When I bought the blower from them I thought sure I'd be on their mailing list again but not got anything from them.

Are they still sending out any kind of flyer to their mill owners and steady customers?

I just went to their web site last night and watched the videos. 

P.S.  Has anyone ever seen one of their 2400 models?

[fstedy]

NO NO and No to Bibby's questions. I called about the new Dogging mod and they didn't even send me any info or a picture they just said it cost $1500. Poor business. Now I'll build my own!!!

[ladylake]

The chain turner on the B20 is pretty simple, it shouldn't be hard to make. When I first got my B20 the  chain had little tabs on both sides of the links which bent over in a hurry and broke off a little later so on the 2nd chain (around $28 ) I cut little metal squares and welded them between the tabs. That chain ran 4 years but finally gave out so I ordered another on from TK, the price went up to a little over $90 but had metal blocks installed with screws which I didn't think would hold up so I welded them in too. Wish I could have got the last chain for $28 and cut my own blocks.  Steve

[1938farmall]

That's going to be my winter job on my 1600 also.  Hope you or flip will post some pics of what it looks like on the B-20.  I'm hoping that the existing hydraulic pump will suffice as nothing else will be going on when the log turner is operating.  Next comes the hydraulic clamp ??  Then our 1600 will be a B-20  al

[ladylake]

We'll have to leave the pictures up to Flip, I got some on here once but can't remember how. Besides I think Flip can type with more than 1 finger.   You'll have a better mill than the B20. More capacity any way faster up and down. Although I wouldn't be without the computer setworks.  Steve

[cantcutter]

I am torn about the setworks. They seem to be problemmatic on mobile mills... might be okay on a stationary mill that are always under cover. I am sure my next mill will have setworks, but I do fine milling without them and when I do get setworks at least I will know how to operate a mill manually just in case.

[Kcwoodbutcher]

I thought they were offering a hydraulic turner on the new 1600's. It should retrofit if you want to spend the bucks. I have most the parts from the manual turner they offered and I'm just going to modify it a little and hang a hydraulic motor and ram on it. A little light duty but it should work for most of my logs. Having a hydraulic turner is nice but it really doesn't save time unless the dog and stops are also hydraulic, which brings me to my biggest beef with the 1600. The stops are just too light duty and easily bent. On this mill and others I have seen, they swing up in an arc rather than just a vertical up/down. If your log is odd shaped or has a branch stub you sometimes have to roll the log backwards for the stops to clear. 
As far as the 2400, there's not a lot of them out yet, but my neighbor is supposed to get the original prototype in for a rebuild. When it arrives I hope to play on it for a while.
I agree the website sucks. It's all geared to selling and nothing pertains to support except for phone numbers. They are extremely helpful when you call them
They are still sending out the flyers but they're all pretty much the same with the exception of the occasional price increase.

[Furby]

TK has been sending me mailings for roughly 5 years since my last contact with them.
And they ARE the same ads, other then the on going price increases.
They really need to take a look at how they are doing business.

[Handy Andy]

  You guys need to check out Cooks.  They sell heavy duty chain for turners and about every part you need.  Get on their mailing list and you get a paper with mills and parts advertised.  Their website has parts for sale and prices. Just too bad they don't sponsor this forum.  Jim

[ladylake]

I am torn about the setworks. They seem to be problemmatic on mobile mills... might be okay on a stationary mill that are always under cover. I am sure my next mill will have setworks, but I do fine milling without them and when I do get setworks at least I will know how to operate a mill manually just in case.

The setworks on my B20 were real eratic before I put a industrial cord reel on it. Now the only time they goof up is when someone forgets to hit the zero button on the first cut.   Andy.  I looked at Cooks website, found lots of roller chain but none with the tabs for turning.  Steve

[mike_van]

Here's a thread on the one I made last year https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=20665.0     I had to make my own dogs on #100 chain, but you can read it all. Pics in my gallery.

[cantcutter]

Thanks for the link Mike. Nice looking turner.

KC..... I just talked to them about the retro a few days ago and it isn't out yet. They have even stopped selling the manual turner because it is almost as much as the retro hydraulic and they are telling everybody to wait a few more months.

[flip]

Couple of answers.  When I was out there they were tweaking on a 2400 ( I had to get a towel to wipe up the drool) it's a monster.  I get a flyer every few months but they are the same ole same ole.  I got to see the new dog prototype on a B-20, it looks like a good set up but there were a few minor changes I would have made.  I took pics. of it and they are still on my old phone but it locked up before I could send them :(
Here are the pics. of the turner.  One note, I did have them install an updated turner chain that has blocks and is a lot less harsh on the cant or log. The new flyer also shows the B-20 has a 4th log stop. The turner will also double as a clamp when cutting bigger logs.

This pic shows the hydraulic cylinder (bottom) that raises and lowers the arm.

This pic shows the hydraulic motor that runs the chain.  The large chain is driven by a set of gears and some #50 chain.

Sorry about the blury pic.  The arm tube is 24" long it is 2"x4" tube and 1/8" wall.  The idler gear has 2 jack or tensioner screws that keep the main chain tight.

Poor light, but at the base I wanted to show the pivot pin.

Here's a pic of the chain, it doesn't show the blocks or teeth real well.

Pretty simple and it will turn from 35"X12' log max or a 6"x6" cant minimum (as long as the log is centered over the turner).
They don't mention the new engine on the B-20 is 30 hp, they slightly mentioned the loader arms are self loading (that's real slick, no more picking up those 100 lb monsters). 

[mike_van]

I had to "upgrade" the drive on the one I built, I'm not sure if I ever posted it - My direct drive hydraulic motor would stall on the big logs [20"+ dia oak, 16' long - So, I added a 15 to 1  right angle drive, the hyd motor runs it, it runs the turner chain. No stopping it now  8)

[flip]

The #1 thing I would worry about is definitely not speed but torque.  Mike has the right idea, high torque motor and gear it down.

[cantcutter]

Where did you get the motor? I have access to a used hydraulic motor off of the drum of a concrete mixer, but that is a little big for this application It will turn 40,000lbs of concrete at a good clip.....wonder how fast it would turn a cant 8)

I am thinking I will be buying a 2400 within a year.....or I will switch to Baker. I am surprised by how different the B-20 is from the 1600. The 1600 head posts are alot heavier than the B-20.

[eamassey]

thanks to mike_van for the good pictures and text on the hydraulic turner.   

On sizing components and input power, this can be calculated up quickly and mostly accurately.   If you don't know how to get through the calculations, try any mechanical engineer that you might know, --- if that is none, try a local high school physics teacher.  Not rocket science.

For any readers considering building a log/cant turner, may I suggest that you look in a Cook's catalog.  I am impressed with Cook's several different ways.

[bandmiller2]

Unless your really into high production on a bandmill you can make a very effective hyd. turner.Think of a woodmizer hydraulic clamp,moves up and down in and out.Weld a sharp point facing twords the cant, you can turn the log and also clamp.By moving up and in and out you can turn cants. After the first cut on a round log you will need to move it half way chock it with a block and get anouther bite,after that no problem to flip and clamp.Frank C.

[Norsk]

So I just registered, and this is my first post.  8) I am so excited to actually have something to add to the forum, instead of just sucking up all the knowledge of the other members!  :P  I got a new TK 1600 in June of 2007. It came with the new hydraulic, chain style, bi-directional log turner. I've only seen a few other mills with chain turners, but this turner looks pretty beefy, and works great for me. The guy who delivered my mill from TK said he thought it was much better than the B20s version. I took multiple pictures of it, but I need to learn how to post them. The brackets and the body of the turner are 3/8" thick steel. I don't know why TK said it was still in the developement process, since they have been advertising it in their flyers for most of this year. Maybe since you were talking about a retrofit for your existing unused brackets is why TK said it wasn't ready.  I would have been very bummed, and refused delivery if it had arrived with the manaul turner. I will share my other, mostly very positive thoughts about the 1600 in future posts.  After much research and thinking, the 1600 was the mill that best fit my needs, and I'm happy with it.

[Tom]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Norsk.

My experiences with Timberking have only been social, but all have been pleasant.  I have a friend in Georgia with two of them.  He loves them.

Can't wait to hear of your sawing experiences.