Help!!

Neil_B · April 18, 2003, 08:54:42 AM

'K guys, I've changed my profile a bit and lightening up my attitude.

I'm discontinuing with that other posting as I've already ruffled enough feathers. Just a little tense lately! :-[
To all those I've ticked off, I apologize. :'(

Anyway, I really need any pictures of your mill equiped debarker. This one doesn't work and I need to know how to make it work. I've tried getting pics off the various websites but none are close enough to get a good look at, if they show them at all. Even if you know of a manufacturers website that does have a good pic, it would help. To save on downloads here you can just email it to me.

I'm going to saw some lumber now. ;D

Tom · April 18, 2003, 09:10:18 AM

I've never had one of those automated thing-uh-muh-whopples.

I use one of these. :D

Neil_B · April 18, 2003, 10:02:25 AM

Is that hydraulic, electric or armstrong? ;)
I'll have to try and scrounge one up to use for now.

beenthere · April 18, 2003, 10:21:30 AM

New_sawyer
The one Tom showed is what I use when I have logs sawn.
The last time I used it, I just cut through the bark where the sawcut line was, in particular on the "incoming" side. Then the blade teeth didn't have to cut through dirt and stones. Probably just as important on the "outgoing" side, but doesn't seem to be when spending the "chopping" time.

But would you show some pictures of what you are having trouble with, and describe what trouble you are having with debarker? Something more than "this one doesn't work" will help visualize what about it "doesn't work".

I like your profile "mascot" much better, and hope I can shake loose of the one I have some time before the next milestone is reached. Keep the posts coming, you guys and gals.

Norm · April 18, 2003, 11:19:23 AM

I'll take some pics of the one on my WM tomorrow for you, is there anything in particular you want to see about it ie, the mounting system or the tension setup. Let me know and if it isn't raining I'll take em.

Neil_B · April 18, 2003, 11:38:42 AM

This is the debarker arm.

this one is the debarker (of course)

This one from above.

OK, Problem 1 was the debarker would kick out from the log. Notice the rotation of the blade, I changed it already.

Problem 2 the unit pivots at the motor and blade mount which causes it to twist into the log and bind up.

Problem 3 the fence doesn't let it follow the contour of the log, also causing it to bind.

Problem 4 is in the inards. The blade is attached via love-joy couplers to the motor shaft. The bearing that the blade arbour goes through is of the swivel/mount type.
(Not sure what the real term for that is but they are used when you can't get perfect alignment.)
The bearing swivels within the housing.
Anyway, this swivel bearing allows too much sloppyness in the arbour to shaft and you get all kinds of noises and sparks. Mainly because I can't get the couplings tight enough to take out the slop.

So with those problems in mind, I have to make this thing follow the log with a decent fence and also make the motor to blade a tighter unit.

the pivot on the arm itself, in the top picture, should allow the unit to follow the contours of a log. I believe this is what the company intended it to do but not happening because of the binding at the fence and motor mount.

Neil_B · April 18, 2003, 11:40:59 AM

hey Norm, didn't see your post there. Anything would help. yes the mount, tensioner and anything else you think may help.

Thanks

Ron Wenrich · April 18, 2003, 04:20:53 PM

Your debarker works pretty much like a mud saw on circle mills. Those are run by an electric motor and are pulled down against the log to chip away some bark before getting to the head saw. Thick barked species would take awhile, and you had to pull down pretty hard on the denser stuff.

I'm not wondering if your cure for Problem 1 didn't cause Problem 2. If the rotation is such that the mud saw is kicking ahead, it seems to me, that it wouldn't dig in.

Is the fence the football shaped thing? That looks more like a guard to me.

If your debarker runs on the same principal as a mud saw, then it would be hard to follow the contour completely. Mud saws kinda float across the log. What is used for tension? It can't be too rigid or you'll dig in.

If you're getting sparks, something ain't hooked up right. I think the type of bearing you're talking about is a self-aligning bearing. We use them all the time in heavier applications. Mud saws are usually attached to a collar with a couple of bolts.

Fla._Deadheader · April 18, 2003, 05:47:18 PM

Hi New_. Go to the For Sale page at the bottom of the drop down forum bar, at the end of any page. Bibbyman had a Jones De-barker for sale and the pics are still there. It ain't like yours, but, it MAY give ya some ideas. ;D

biziedizie · April 18, 2003, 05:55:11 PM

New_Sawyer it's good to see you back with a smile on your face

Between your descriptions of your problems and the great advice that you will get from the guys here I'm sure you will be cutting perfect boards soon.

Keep up the positive attitude!

Steve

Fla._Deadheader · April 18, 2003, 05:59:33 PM

HMMMMMM, 2 things. Is the football shaped thing, just above the blade, supposed to be what rides against the log??
Looks to me like it could get caught in the bark and that would make it twist. Maybe drill a 3/8ths hole, out near the end and insert a bolt, so that, it would keep the tips from digging into the bark??

Second, the two different types of blades that I have seen, are like a biscuit cutter blade. Pieces of carbide that actually "chew" the bark away. Maybe the sawblade cuts too deep and then binds?? The pics of the Jones will show the blade better than my splainin. ;) :D

ohsoloco · April 18, 2003, 06:11:30 PM

Deadheader, I've seen that drop down bar many many times, but never "noticed" it (at least not enough to try it). That's pretty slick...learn something new on here every time I visit 8)

Fla._Deadheader · April 18, 2003, 06:20:18 PM

Hi loco. Yeah, this guy, Jeff, is pretty clever with all these buttons and bars and bangles and ????? ;)

Jeff · April 18, 2003, 06:25:33 PM

I never use that dropdown bar myself. It does not include the full members only portions of the site. That explains why we can talk about deadheader in the other forums and he never retorts. ;D

Tom · April 18, 2003, 06:36:28 PM

If I want to stay in the same forum, I hit "Go". When I finish that forum I hit "Home" and look for another one that has a "new" tag on it.

I can't help myself, I've just gotta read them all. There's too much good stuff going on to stay in one spot. :D :P

Harold, I think it's quicker than the drop downs too. :-/

Fla._Deadheader · April 18, 2003, 06:41:32 PM

What other forum ???[/color][/size]

Fla._Deadheader · April 18, 2003, 06:44:15 PM

Tom, you splained all that when you were here. I just forgot?? :'( :-[

Tom · April 18, 2003, 06:54:22 PM

Yeah, but you got 'tention deficit disorder like me. My memory isn't any longer than my uh....nose. B'sides I don't know what to call all those other sections either. ???
Les'ee there is a Post and it's in a Thread and it's in a subject(forum?) and it's in a Topic and it's in the big Forum.

How would you catagorize it? :P

And for cryin' out loud, what do call that front page, cover page or whatever it is. You know, the one with the Poll on it. ??? ???

Fla._Deadheader · April 18, 2003, 07:12:46 PM

POLL, There's a POLL ????? Now I'm gettin perenoid !!!

Shoot. I'm gonna go peek over the fence. Be back in a few minutes.

ohsoloco · April 18, 2003, 07:32:08 PM

I came to this forum from a link on one of those other forums. It was many many months (and because I logged onto the forum from another comp. instead of my favorites) to realize there was the "poll page" :D

ohsoloco · April 18, 2003, 07:33:06 PM

New_Sawyer....notice we get off topic really easily? :

;)

Neil_B · April 18, 2003, 08:32:02 PM

Ok, I'll have to go down through the list here.

Ron, the rotation pictured is the old way and it would kick out as there wasn't enough spring tension to hold it in. It would hit the log, bounce out, float back in hit the log and bounce out. would do that the whole length only touching about every foot or so. That football shaped thing is supposed to be the fence, I'm trying to come up with a better one than that. The sparks are coming from the love-joy coupler hitting inside the square box above the blade. With that self align bearing, it's creating too much play and the set screws come loose on the couplers. The opposite rotation allows it to stay in the wood. Same principle as a table saw only the pivot that the motor is mounted on is allowing it to twist too much. Thinking of making it solid. Do you think I should stick with that rotation and add more tension to the arm?

Deadheader, that's what I'm looking for only that setup looks like you'd have to keep adjusting it to follow the log. I think the design of mine was intended to follow the log on it's own course with all the pivots. Still gives me a better idea though. The blade looks like it's going the same direction as mine in the pic but it looks solidly attached to the mount so it won't kick away.

Bizie, I'll be slicin' and dicin' here soon.

Deadheader, that is an 8" dado blade in the pic. I changed to a smaller 6" dado with more teeth. Works lots better and binds less than the 8 did. I've gone ahead and cut off a portion at the front of the fence to cut down on it digging into the log and installed a small bearing at the tip to help guide it

Ohsoloco, Yeah!!

Thanks guys, keep em comin though

Fla._Deadheader · April 19, 2003, 05:02:51 AM

Hi New_. I could be wrong

, but, I believe the Jones type has a chain hook-up on the upper end of the shaft that is attached to the sawhead. There is also a spring that holds tension for the blade to stay in contact with the log, but allowing it to move to conform to the size and shape of the log??

Maybe the saw blade you have is actually trying to saw itself into the log?? I am going to try the biscuit cutter type blade, so it just "eats" at the bark. It also has carbide tips, so it should not need much sharpening??

Lenny · April 19, 2003, 05:20:18 AM

New_sawyer.The bearings you are refering to are called self alighning pillow block, or flange bearings depending on the style.The bearing should have a tight fit in the cast housing.
The bearing insert is replaceable.Rotate the bearing 90 deg alighned with the 2 knotches on the cast housing and it pops out.
These bearings when used with lovejoy couplings should be in pairs to give a ridged drive shaft.using only one will allow movement and or vibration because of the rubber spider between the two coupling halfs

Ron Wenrich · April 19, 2003, 07:13:46 AM

I believe the lovejoy connection is designed for movement. I agree that they don't hold up too well in many applications. Can you get a chain link coupler on there?

I believe a roller on the tip of your fence would help the digging in part. You might want to try on on bottom and top held with a bolt. It doesn't have to be anything fancy.

Mud saws do jump around a lot. The hold down pressure in hand mills is the armstrong method. Yours is trying to use spring pressure. I'm not sure if heavier springs is a solution.

What species are you cutting? If you're hitting a bunch of knots that will send the thing flying.