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Author Topic: Help!!  (Read 6839 times)

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Offline ohsoloco

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2003, 07:33:06 pm »
New_Sawyer....notice we get off topic really easily?   ::) ;)

Offline Neil_B

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2003, 08:32:02 pm »
Ok, I'll have to go down through the list here.

Ron, the rotation pictured is the old way and it would kick out as there wasn't enough spring tension to hold it in.  It would hit the log, bounce out, float back in hit the log and bounce out. would do that the whole length only touching about every foot or so. That football shaped thing is supposed to be the fence, I'm trying to come up with a better one than that. The sparks are coming from the love-joy coupler hitting inside the square box above the blade. With that self align bearing, it's creating too much play and the set screws come loose on the couplers. The opposite rotation allows it to stay in the wood. Same principle as a table saw only the pivot that the motor is mounted on is allowing it to twist too much. Thinking of making it solid. Do you think I should stick with that rotation and add more tension to the arm?

Deadheader, that's what I'm looking for only that setup looks like you'd have to keep adjusting it to follow the log. I think the design of mine was intended to follow the log on it's own course with all the pivots. Still gives me a better idea though. The blade looks like it's going the same direction as mine in the pic but it looks solidly attached to the mount so it won't kick away.

Bizie, I'll be slicin' and dicin' here soon. :)

Deadheader, that is an 8" dado blade in the pic. I changed to a smaller 6" dado with more teeth. Works lots better and binds less than the 8 did. I've gone ahead and cut off a portion at the front of the fence to cut down on it digging into the log and installed a small bearing at the tip to help guide it

Ohsoloco, Yeah!! :)

Thanks guys, keep em comin though
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2003, 05:02:51 am »
Hi New_. I could be wrong  :o, but, I believe the Jones type has a chain hook-up on the upper end of the shaft that is attached to the sawhead. There is also a spring that holds tension for the blade to stay in contact with the log, but allowing it to move to conform to the size and shape of the log??

 Maybe the saw blade you have is actually trying to saw itself into the log??  I am going to try the biscuit cutter type blade, so it just "eats" at the bark. It also has carbide tips, so it should not need much sharpening??
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Offline Lenny

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2003, 05:20:18 am »
New_sawyer.The bearings you are refering to are called self alighning pillow block, or flange bearings depending on the style.The bearing should have a tight fit in the cast housing.
The bearing insert is replaceable.Rotate the bearing 90 deg alighned with the 2 knotches on the cast housing and it pops out.
These bearings when used with lovejoy couplings should be in pairs to give a ridged drive shaft.using only one will allow movement and or vibration because of the rubber spider between the two coupling halfs

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2003, 07:13:46 am »
I believe the lovejoy connection is designed for movement.  I agree that they don't hold up too well in many applications.  Can you get a chain link coupler on there?

I believe a roller on the tip of your fence would help the digging in part.  You might want to try on on bottom and top held with a bolt.  It doesn't have to be anything fancy.

Mud saws do jump around a lot.  The hold down pressure in hand mills is the armstrong method.  Yours is trying to use spring pressure.  I'm not sure if heavier springs is a solution.

What species are you cutting?  If you're hitting a bunch of knots that will send the thing flying.
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Offline Neil_B

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2003, 07:44:06 am »
Deadheader, I wondered about the chainsaw type cutters that you can get for a grinder but they are only 4". Not sure if they come in a 6" or not.  ??? It's hard to tell in the pics how the Jones is tensioned.

Lennie, I'm going to look for a solid bearing and flange to replace the self align one. I wondered about getting another bearing in there but no room. The rubber spider is getting pretty whacked already.

Ron, I'll see if I can find another coupler. It has to have 5/8" bore for the motor and 3/4" bore for the arbour. Cutting hardwoods with few knots. I hoped the blade with more teeth would cut out the bouncing and it does but not a whole lot. I could try a heavier spring and if doesn't work can switch back.
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Offline Neil_B

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2003, 10:49:58 am »
Anyone know how to take apart and inspect a centrifugal clutch as pictured below? Can I just remove the allan bolts and pull it out? Will anything spring out at me if I do?

Reason I ask is I stalled the blade :o and the motor was running 36 horses into that clutch and it got pretty hot, really quick. Just want to inspect it to make sure it's OK.


Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2003, 11:02:19 am »
If it aint broke dont fix it.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline Mark M

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2003, 11:42:42 am »
Hi New,

If it is like my Norwood Clutch (smaller), you take out the main bolt and then remove the whole unit. The outer drum can be removed. I do however agree with Jeff, if it is still working and isn't badly discolored then don't worry about it. They are designed to slip a little and can handle some heat.

Mark

Offline ohsoloco

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2003, 11:45:53 am »
I stalled my blade in a really wide cut a while back, gave it full throttle and started to smoke the clutch...it still works just fine (but now I know not to give it gas when the blade binds up  :D )

Offline Neil_B

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2003, 11:58:44 am »
Ok, I'll leave it alone for now. It was pretty hot though. Burnt the paint off the outside drum. I'm thinking it was slipping before the blade stopped because it didn't run that long after the blade totally quit.
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2003, 12:04:59 pm »
New_Sawyer I say leave the clutch alone as you can't service it anyways if it's the same as mine.
 Like Mark says it's designed to slip a bit at times.
 
 Been meaning to ask you if you've ever talked to any local guys that have the same saw that you own. I think there's a guy very close to you that could maybe help you out and give you some ideas.

 Another thing I was going mention was that you might want to start a thread about different bands, like sizes and which ones to use on which logs. If I'm correct your mill can use 11/2 and 21/2 blades and I think that's giving you some problems.

 I hope things are working out for you :)

   Steve

Offline Neil_B

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2003, 12:18:08 pm »
Hey bizie, there is a guy in quebec and one in North Bay, On but I didn't get their names or phone numbers. I can use 1.5 and 2" but didn't get the guides for the 1.5 so I have to find my own. I wanted to try out the WM double hard for frozen wood this winter but didn't get the chance. They are 1.5".

What about speed itself affecting the slip of the clutch? Would it matter much if I'm running about 2700rpm compared to 3000. When I replaced the drive pulley from 19" to 16" I also lowered the rpm to 2700 to cut back on fuel a bit. I'm thinking I may go back to 3000 again to raise my blade speed a bit higher anyway.
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Offline Tom

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2003, 06:34:52 pm »
The fuel issue is the very least of your worries.  The speed of the blade is important.  The gullet of a band blade forms a venturi that sucks the sawdust from the cut and clears the cut.  If your blade speed is too slow, you lose the venturi.  You also lose the benefit of the weight of the wheels to get you through bad places before the Governor is affected.  This makes for smoother and straighter cuts. The blade can defintely be too slow and, I'm told, there is a place where it can be too fast too.

You need to check with your manufacturer to get the optimum Feet Per Minute for your mill.  It is blade dependent but they will have the best answers because that is one of the formulas they had to solve in engineering the mill. That is also the reason that they set the RPM's of the engine at a certain point.
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Offline Neil_B

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2003, 07:22:34 pm »
I don't think the fuel thing is going to be an issue anyway now that I've tried it. There wasn't much difference really, dropping it down 300rpm. It will in the long run but not worth while at this point. I need a clean cut.

The manufacturer had a different SFPM than what I calculated with the formula supplied by Suffolk. Asked if they used a different formula and no reply. I had calculated 4900sfpm and they said I was running at 5600 with the 19" drive. When I replaced the drive I dropped to a 16". I'm now at 5890. According to Suffolk that's around the speed I should be. I am using Viking blades which are supposed to be the Cdn version of Timberwolf blades from Suffolk Machinery.
5300 @ 2700rpm

3000rpm motor
5" drive
16" drive pulley
24" band wheels
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2003, 03:21:56 am »
Wouldn't a reduction in rpm reduce the amount of power you are putting into your system?  If that's the case, that could be part of your clutch problem.

If you keep your rpm up, then the 16" driven pulley will speed up your sfpm by about 20%.  I figured 4960 to 5890.  Dropping your rpm down to 2700 gives you a 5300 sfpm.

What effect do you think the added speed is having to your guides, band bearings, etc.?
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Offline Neil_B

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2003, 05:54:46 am »
Yeah Ron, that's what I was wondering about with the reduced speed and the clutch. I don't have any specs on the clutch so I can't crunch any numbers to find out. I raised the rpm back up to 3000 again.
I'm sure the increase is going to wear on the bearings faster but I'll have to keep an eye on them to see if they are heating up. Unfortunatly my guides aren't greasable, but I'm going to replace them with a greasable unit when the time comes to change them. The bearings for the band wheels are industrial type bearings so I'm hoping they'll last. I was told that some of these machines do get set up with the 16" pulley, it was mainly a matter of preference.
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Offline Neil_B

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Re: Help!!
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2003, 06:12:13 pm »
Yeah! Finally got sawing some logs again yesterday.  ;D Not many but it's a start. Down today though due to the weather so went and got some parts for the debarker, using a wire brush for now. ::) Built a spot to pile lumber with the 4x4 cants I had. Not a production day but got some things done non-the-less.
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.