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Welding Plastic

Started by johnjbc, April 18, 2003, 08:34:13 AM

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johnjbc

Plastic welding
I need some culverts for road work and to build a pond. I priced 30" black plastic pipe and it was several hundred $ for a 20 foot length.  ::) ::)
Have a source of plastic barrels. I cut the top and bottom out of 2 of them and tried to melt them together with out much success.
The first attempt was to cut one of the tops into strips and melt it into the joint with a propane torch. Plastic broke down and when it hardened it was brittle like glass and wouldn't stick
Then I tried a big soldering iron but it wasn't hot enough.
Also tried the cement used on plastic pipe.
Anyone ever done this or have any ideas on how to do this? Is there a solvent that will work on this kind of plastic?  :P :P
LT40HDG24, Case VAC, Kubota L48, Case 580B, Cat 977H, Bobcat 773

oldsaw

Heat isn't going to work on that.  Neither will the solvent type glues.  You would have to use either a construction adhesive or possibly an epoxy type product.  I would lean towards the construction adhesives.

Secondary to that is to figure out if the barrels will be able to support the weight you plan to put on them.  The weight of the soil could very well collapse the plastic barrels and make the real stuff look cheap in comparison to the mess you just made.

Plastic pipe is made of PVC or ABS which work with the solvent glues to chemically "weld" them together.

Hope this helps.

Mark
So many trees, so little money, even less time.

Stihl 066, Husky 262, Husky 350 (warmed over), Homelite Super XL, Homelite 150A

Kevin

How about a ditch with a bridge over it?

Jeff

Kev don't you have a picture of you building a bridge with chainsaw mill timbers and planks?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Haytrader

You might try a poly tank manufacturer like Norwesco. They make a welder kit but not sure how it works.
Haytrader

Kevin

This little bridge was milled with a chainsaw --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/photo/13012199/14138748NVHXEuTUrM]bridge link[/url][/glow]

biziedizie

Kevin that's the first bridge that I've seen that a guy can sit on and drink a beer and not get run over by a truck. :).
  
   Steve

biziedizie

Oh yeah about the poly tanks have you tried JB Weld? That or there's a fiber mesh that will adhere to poly that I've used and if I remember the name I will send it to you.

  Steve

ohsoloco

Bizie just got my brain churnin....look out  :D   I have no idea if this would work on plastic or not (but don't see why it wouldn't), but have you ever heard of a product called Tiger Hair?   I used it once to patch a hole in the trunk of my old VW once.  I don't know how big of a batch of JB weld you can buy, but I've only ever seen it in those little tubes.  The Tiger Hair I bought came in a quart can, and you could probably buy it by the gallon.  It's some sort of epoxy with fiberglass hairs in it....mix in the hardener and spread the stuff out.  You can buy it at auto parts stores.

Just tossing this up in the air to see where it lands  ::)

biziedizie

Loco I've seen and used that stuff and I would assume that it would work on poly but would it have any flex to it? I'm thinking that as the poly would flex then so should the product.
  If JB Weld is mixed with less of the grey stuff it will have some flex. It can be bought in the gallon cans but it costs alot of money.

     Steve

ohsoloco

Tiger hair gets hard as a rock when it dries...but there is also a tube of the hardener you have to add.  I don't know if using less would keep it flexible or not  :P

Bro. Noble

Would it work to slide one end inside the next,  seal them with sylicone,  and bolt them?

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Tom

DanG, Noble.  I was thinking that too :D

I also though about cutting a third barrel into 2 or three sections and using them for collars.  You could bolt the collars on and it might make a fairly rigid joint.  It may not close all the way but if you put the hole up then you could just lay something over it when you put the dirt on. ;D

Haytrader

I think Noble and Tom are on the right track.
You didn't say what you were going to drive over this. Could you fill us in?
Haytrader

Tillaway

Hmmm... hate to be the naysayer here, but how much fill is going over the pipe and what are your expected loads over the pipe?  It seems to me a plastic barrel would squish a little too easy with the bottom cut out.  The plastic culvert pipes have the corrogations to strenghen the pipe and keep it from collapsing.

I think you would may be money ahead to go ahead and buy the culvert pipe.  It will cost you much more the remove, it if it fails, then spending  more now.  Also using what you propose would be in violation of many rules in my area.  Are you sure that you would be leagally able to use them in your area?

Currently we have to pull about four cross drains and a couple of ephemeral stream crossing that a person with R/W placed on a haul road we need to use.  He used 6" and 8" PVC.  It is undersized for the application and it would not hold up to a loaded log truck since it is only a few inches under the running surface.

Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

johnjbc

Lots of ideas. First the barrels are pretty strong I can stand on them and when covered by a couple feet of dirt I should be able to drive my tractor over them with no problem. It weighs about 8K
I have some JB Weld and Liquid nails. I will give it a test tomorrow and see what sticks..
I see where some of them have had a flange welded on so it must be possible.
As for sliding one into the next they are not tapered so that won't work unless I could get the end of one hot enough to stretch it over the other. Need to think about that idea.
A bridge would work for the roads but for the pond I need the pipe to make a spillway.
So far the collar with construction adhesive holding it on sounds best.
Thanks for all the help!!!
LT40HDG24, Case VAC, Kubota L48, Case 580B, Cat 977H, Bobcat 773

Fla._Deadheader

Maybe it's just me ?? If you skil saw one barrel for it's full length and then slip that over the ends of 2 other barrels AND seal the seam, then bolt the thing together where the cut seam is, It CAN'T go anywhere?? You are talking 1 extra barrel for each joint. That would make the culvert double thick?? Got enough barrels??

  In Alaska last June, the mine where I was gold hunting was using steel 55 gal. drums welded together. They run D-8's and 955? backhoes over these as culverts. Of course, these are track machines, so they spread out the load, BUT, the fuel truck is a 2 1/2 ton wheel rig. They have about 5-6' of fill over the culvert.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

ADfields

It's done just like Harold sead all the time up hear where we got noone looking over our shoulder all the time.   We use both steel and plastic and the plastic is stronger I think.   They will hold up great as long as you have 16" or more fill on top to spreed out the force.   They don't bolt them they use stainless deck screws and cheep silicone caulk.   On the ends the will see the sun you need to use concrete or paint to stop the uv from killing them.   They cut great with a small chain saw or a Skill saw and a plywood blade running backwards so it wont gum up.
Good luck.
Andy

Fla._Deadheader

Hey Andy. Got the mill runnin yet?? Where's the progress report?? Inquiring minds wanna know !!! :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jeff

I looked at Inquiring  twice thinking it said liquredup :-X ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

Not Dead-header, Jeff.   licorice(d) up maybe. :D

ADfields

Well Harold thats a long story. ::)   First it was taxes then I got all done with that and next day hooked up the trailer to get more iron.   When I hit the stoplight in Anchorage 48 miles from home the truck overheated on me. >:(   Cooled it all off and pulled the thermostat out and off once more. ;)   No, that weren't the trouble as it was hot in under a mile, water pump!   So I got to sit by the road till the wife got off work to bring me the other truck and towbar (cant tow with just a chain in Alaska) to drag the mess home.   Got it home and stuck it in the shop around 10 at night, next AM I went back to Anchorage to get the trailer we left at Sam's Club and my iron.   When I got home from that I found that Alaska's "brake-up" had arrived at my place in force and the shop had flooded with melt water. >:( >:( >:(   After I got done with the water pump job in the slop-shop I mashed the ruts in the mud back flat and have not been in the thing and wont till brake-up is done enough that I don't need waders to go in the thing!   I HATE that DanG shop and have been set to build a good one and rip that thing down every summer but it gets put off. :'(   The guy that put the thing up did nothing in the way of prep work on the ground before he put it up so now it's the low spot on the hole place and to short to put a concrete floor in. ::) ::)   Maybe this summer is the one. :-/   I looked in today and the pond is dry so as soon as the mud has a crust on it I will be back at the saw!!   For now I am just working on the parts hunting and taking the studded tires off the trucks and the wifes bronco.   FUN FUN! ;)
Andy

shopteacher

There are welding outfits for plastic. One is available from Harbor Freight( I would be careful of the quality) for $30.00 and a pack of 50 (17) gray PVC plastic rods, (17) green PC PP rods, (16) white PC ABS rods is $3.99.  I used one of these outfits(not the one from HF) to weld a PVC tank together for a model Lock and Dam project and it worked reasonably well. After over 10 years the tank is still together and never leaked.  I have seen these outfits sell for a couple hundred dollars so as mentioned before I would be skeptical of one for 30.00
GC  ::)

Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Fla._Deadheader

Andy, Do ya get a Salmon run through the shop in the spring?? :o ::) ::) ;D  
  Can't ya jack it up and fill under it, then floor it??  I did that once in Arkyland. ::) ;)

  Jeff, the hardest drink you will find in our house, is [size=8]7 Up or Root Beer[/size] ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jeff

I wasn't forming any opinions there Harold, its just my mind took 3 attempts to get right. I'm a diet coke man myself.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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