Weird (fast growth?) walnut

[Daren]

I had a guy call me awhile back and said he has a couple walnut trees he was cutting, would I sawmill one for him if I got to pick the better of the 2 for myself. He is a buddy I said sure.
He dropped them off this morning and I have never seen anything like it. I am sure some have, not me. They where both 20"x10' and nice and straight....but they were 1/2 sapwood, both of them. The had 10" of black with 5" of white all around. I have seen much smaller logs with too much sap, but these (from the outside) looked like decent logs.
He wanted his just flat sawn/live edge for rustic table tops. Really the best bet I reckon, I would not have been able to saw to remove the sap and have anything left.
I have plenty of other stuff to do, but I cut his up real quick just to see what it looked like inside. Even the heartwood was way paler than Illinois walnut usually is, creamy light brown.
I guess I am going to saw mine the same way ?
I took a picture of the sawdust pile off his log when I was done...a pile of white sawdust after milling a walnut  ???
I am guessing they just grew too fast (the ring count was very low). Maybe this is not so unusual and is no big deal. I have sawed my fair share of walnut and was surprised by these. The picture of the log on the deck was the very center, the pith is 1/2" below the surface.

And yes it is walnut, I had seen them at his place before.

[Tom]

Ah yes!  Must be Global  Warming.   Gore's been warning threatening us about that.  What's next, the ice in the margarita?  :D :D

[beenthere]

Ah yes Daren.  Even could be Black Walnut...fast grown. But the pic on the left doesn't seem the log is very straight...may just be the angle of the camera.

[Tom]

It looks like he is cutting the straightest side though, beenthere.  I think he is cutting through the saddle toward the hump or visa versa.

[Daren]

   Gore's been warning threatening us about that. 

Too much hot air from politicians maybe  ???

beenthere, yea it is the camera and my excellent cropping skills   :D to make it fit here. The picture curve is an optical illusion, but not the sapwood. It has a bit of a swell at the top (I cropped out of the picture) where it started branching, and I am sorta standing to the side. It is straighter than it looks.

[Larry]

I've seen walnut like that.  Most times it will have 2 rings to the inch and the tree was a yard tree where they fertilized the grass a lot.  If I know ahead of time that I'm getting logs like that I might steam em...in most cases sapwood is about worthless on the retail market.

An alternative is to brush all the sawdust off the boards and dry them fast.  It's sorta amazing but walnut sapwood can be dried to come out a very bright white if done properly.

[Tom]

I sure don't understand the "no sapwood" rule for Balck Walnut.   I know that folks will have a preference, but, what makes is trash?

I even like the wide grain.  It's right ornamental.

If I put aside the rules from the industry, I think that tis a pretty board. 

[Ianab]

Yup, thats how the Chinese walnuts we have here grow too. If it's growing in good soil it will have 1/2" between the growth rings, and as it take about 10 years for the sapwood to turn into heartwood, you end up with about 5" of sapwood.

Should make cool table tops with the contrasting wood like that though  8)

Cheers

Ian

[Ron Wenrich]

I believe Purdue or someone has developed fast growing walnut.  18" in 25 years or 30 years.  They are grafted trees, and they also have done cherry.

I asked a veneer buyer about fast growing walnut, and he said he had no interest in anything like that.  Growth rings mean a lot for veneer.

Sapwood is considered a defect in walnut, only if not steamed.  A lot depends on the buyer.  I've seen buyers walk away from small cherry because of excessive sapwood.  I believe sapwood is also a defect in ERC. 

On the flip side, heartwood is can be considered a defect in ash.  There is also a sap grade in tulip poplar.

[Tom]

Most of the guys practically cry, down here, if the ERC is all red.   They like the contrast of the creamy sapwood.

With 5 or more inches of sapwood, couldn't a mill rip 3 1/2 inches off of each side and steam it?  the center/heart could go for grade and the steamed sap for vertical grain flooring, or whatever?

I sure hate to see good wood called a defect.  Defect, to me, is a rotten place.  :-\

[Daren]

I do not like the looks of steamed walnut (what I have seen) it darkens the sap, but mutes the subtle colors of the heart, makes it look bland and muddy.
I don't like sapwood on walnut either...but this is a little unique if nothing else. I have a couple customers (and myself) that like the unusual. I have one guy in particular that if you put 2 boards in front of him, one with an ugly knot and one clear for the same money he always picks the knotty one. He says " I can go to Menards/Lowes and buy a plain board, I am after character" He works knots and what other people would see as defect into his work, even showcases them.
I pulled some 12" wide "white walnut"/"albino walnut" (what I am going to call it, make it sound special and it brings a special price) off the other guys log, not a speck of heartwood. I expect the exact same from mine when I saw it.

And I think the right guy would like a bookmatch like in the picture he could joint and have a black and white walnut table top?

One question the guy asked and I answered, but now I am not so sure. He had me cut a 3" thick slab just off the centerline to make a few long rifle stocks. He is one of those guys who does the civil war battle recreations and is a muzzle loader hunter (he makes and sell really cool powder horns). Anyway he thought the contrasting sap/heart would look neat in a stock. He asked if the sapwood was weaker, I told him I did not think so. Like I already said the big walnut I saw the sap goes to the burn pile, I can only sell black walnut. Now I wonder if the sap is weaker ?

[Larry]

With 5 or more inches of sapwood, couldn't a mill rip 3 1/2 inches off of each side and steam it?  the center/heart could go for grade and the steamed sap for vertical grain flooring, or whatever?

With walnut the dark color comes out of the heartwood and migrates to the sapwood so ripping it off to steam won't work.  The walnut barons have educated the consumer to believe steaming evens out the color of the heartwood along with the sapwood.

The only people not steaming walnut are the small mills...like us.  Education of the buyer helps, alone with examples of using sapwood in an artistic manner.  Un-steamed walnut heartwood can be worthy of a premium price to some wood workers.

Daren, some years ago Dad had me book match walnut with a lot of sapwood.  He glued panels up with the sapwood to the inside and heartwood on the outside.  Quite a few people have commented on how it looks.  Be careful when drying walnut sapwood...it will sticker stain as easy as maple.

[SwampDonkey]

I pulled some 12" wide "white walnut"/"albino walnut" (what I am going to call it, make it sound special and it brings a special price) off the other guys log, not a speck of heartwood. I expect the exact same from mine when I saw it.

I know you have not intention to deceive anyone, but be careful with the 'white walnut' designation as it is known as butternut, has almost no sapwood (<2") and has a grey/brown heartwood color. Hard to describe, but you've probably seen some of my wood pictures. It's light weight and soft like aspen when dry.

[Daren]

...it will sticker stain as easy as maple.

I figured as much. I have 1" cpvc pipe I can use for stickers to avoid that, I was planning on using them, thanks for the reminder and confirmation.

  Un-steamed walnut heartwood can be worthy of a premium price to some wood workers.

Yea I know, especially nice wide book matches  ;)

I know you have not intention to deceive anyone, but be careful with the 'white walnut' designation as it is known as butternut, has almost no sapwood (<2") and has a grey/brown heartwood color. Hard to describe, but you've probably seen some of my wood pictures. It's light weight and soft like aspen when dry.

I know SD, I was just being silly really, and kinda making a point it does not have to be a negative. A little marketing always helps, no way I would ever deceive anyone. But making it sound special instead of  "walnut sapwood", more like rare thick walnut sapwood...white walnut was a bad example I was just typing. My customers know their wood (some better than I  :P)

[Corley5]

soft like aspen when dry.

I guess you've never driven nails into dry aspen  eh eh  ;)

[WDH]

The sapwood is not weaker.

[SwampDonkey]

Not many no. No one uses it locally for anything 'cept kindling and pulpwood, occasionally veneer. Still soft compared to walnut or ash. ;)

The sapwood is not weaker.

Agreed

[Corley5]

Ya might as well plan on pre drilling for nails with dry aspen.  It's not much softer when dry than ash 

[Don_Papenburg]

Ivory walnut ? :D

[Daren]

The guy was hauling the rest to the burn pile (he brought the 2 butt logs, his neighbor wanted some for firewood off the tops, the rest was "garbage") I saw him with this thing chained to the bucket of a backhoe heading to the dump. I figured what the heck, I will saw into and see what I get  :. I got 2 bookmatches like this. This is the same one just positioned different for each picture. The other is similar. They are unusual if nothing else...and already sold, the first guy that saw them spoke for them. He was by the day I was milling them.

I was afraid the end grain of the limbs coming out of the heart would check. I have learned a new trick, it has worked every time I have tried it so far. I soak the endgrain with Tung oil, so far so good. This has been stickered since the day I posted the first pictures (?) it has air dried some without busting. I took these picture this morning before they went into the kiln.

It is hard to see in the pictures but there is the little crotch at the top and the one at the bottom was 4 way. Made for interesting milling, I would not have it any other way  ;D.

[SwampDonkey]

Holly OZ Daren!! I ain't sure....but I think you found one of them trees that almost swallowed the scare crow........but it looks like it got the witch, and only here bottom half...she's upside down.  ;D :D 8)