Dips and Sprays for Sawn Lumber

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

From the Forestry Forum CRASH OF 2007 ARCHIVES
General Forestry => Sawmills and milling => Topic started by: fencerowphil on October 09, 2007, 05:55:00 PM



Post by: fencerowphil on October 09, 2007, 05:55:00 PM

What do you use for an anti-sapstain dip or spray?

What does it cost?

Phil L.




Post by: brdmkr on October 09, 2007, 10:22:52 PM

I don't use anything, but I would be interested in starting.... If something can be had that is cheap!




Post by: Captain on October 09, 2007, 11:19:39 PM

Phil, I have often thought of adding a small amount of bleach to the lube water.  But I have no definative testing!!

Captain



Post by: fencerowphil on October 10, 2007, 07:28:52 AM

UNTRIED:
Bailey's sells a product by JIMO called Ecomofo.  It comes in a 41 lb. pail - liquid
which is mixed for use into water at a 5% to 8% concentration.  $29.95 per pail, plus
normal shipping, plus an extra shpg. charge of $3.95.  Jimo's site suggests that fresh
sawn wood be dipped or sprayed and allowed to sit dead-stacked for at least eight hours,
before it is sticker stacked.  I suppose that lets the chemical do a better job of initial
extermination of spores, etc.

Haven't tried it, but I need something for when I cut older pine logs coming up.  Recent
experience without moldicide of some sort has been very frustrating.  I had been cutting
far more hard wood (mainly for myself), but lately have had many calls to cut pine for others.

See thread:  Link to thread     about my mold experiment (Pg. two of the thread)

Phil L.




Post by: fencerowphil on October 15, 2007, 07:04:56 AM

Another potential chemical that can be bought at Sam's.
It's a household disenfectant, but has a good concentration
of several good mold controllers/killers:

Proforce by Ecolab  at Sam's for under $6 a gallon.  It has
more of the good stuff in it than does Lysol brand, and more
different chemicals as well.

Phil L.



Post by: Ron Wenrich on October 15, 2007, 05:29:25 PM

We had a thread about this on the other forum.  We only put spray on certain types of wood and only when the heat and humidity is such that it favors blue stain.  White woods, such as maple and birch, aren't treated.  They have to be sawn and sent.  The spray soaks into the wood and messes with the finish.

I can't recall the name of the stuff we use.  Its expensive, but it makes a lot of spray.  We make it by the 55 gallon batch and probably treat 1/2-3/4 MMbf per year on the dry mix.  So, a little goes a long way.

Basically, you wet your layers down with a spray, then deadpile the boards on top.  The contact between the boards spreads out the treatment.  Its temporary, and allows wood to be deadpiled for about 3 weeks. 

On thing to remember is that the stain starts in the log.  If you have logs that have been laying for quite some time, they have the stain.  In the summer, it only takes a few days.  You can smell tulip poplar turning sour within 3-5 days after cutting.

All the spraying and dipping will have little effect on that lumber.  Fresh stuff will get it from the air, and that is where your spraying is beneficial. 




Post by: fencerowphil on October 16, 2007, 08:53:20 PM

I treated some pine tonight with the Proforce, plus some borate.

Details are on the other thread under  "Drying and Processing."

Can anybody give me some particular product names and costs for what you have used?

Phil L.




Post by: Ron Wenrich on October 17, 2007, 05:56:01 AM

Sta Brite P costs about $250 for a 5 gallon container.  Its mixed 50:1 or so, and goes a long way.  Apply with a garden sprayer.  10-20 gal/Mbf, depending on thickness and how heavy you spray.  We get it from our sawmill equipment dealer.



Post by: fencerowphil on October 17, 2007, 06:54:38 AM

Thanks, Ron

Knew it was expensive to get started, at least for the part time
sawyer.  OUCH!

I never did do a search in the now archived FF (which will be returned
as the main FF, so that this new stuff with then be the archive), so that
I could find where you probably answered this last time around.
roll_eyes

Phil L.



Post by: Ron Wenrich on October 17, 2007, 05:21:37 PM

I have to amend the mixing units.  I talked to the honcho in charge today, and he said he was putting 32 oz per 50 gallons of water.  That would last us about 1 week and probably 35-40 Mbf of grade lumber. 

He said he used about 5 gallons all summer.  We probably sprayed about 1/2 million bf.  But, we probably spray a little light.

I would think that's cost effective.  It comes out to .50-.75/Mbf.  I guess you could put it in lube water, but it tells you not to have any sawdust on your boards.  Sawdust will cause stain PDQ in a deadpile.

[brdmkr]

Thanks for brining this over from the new old board!

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

A few clarifying notes are in order, since we are dealing with several  areas of potential initial degrade in lumber:

Surface mold which causes discolorations and increased permeability
Sap Stain fungi, including blue stain, which does not cause rot of the cell walls
Rot Fungi of several types which DO cause damaging strength loss
Enzymatic Sap Stain

Enzymatic sap stain in light woods is quite different than the other three.   Some woods tend to "brown" like a peeled apple.  Others tend to go gray in color, instead of brown.  Anti-sapstain products are primarily designed to prevent this tendency in specific woods, keeping them bright and light.  Enzymatic stain is caused by chemical reactions of compounds in the wood itself, not by infectious agents.  That's how it is different.

My trek into this part of the stars began as a response to a severe mold problem, not a sapstain problem.   It just so happens that a multi-purpose dip/spray will cover a lot of territory.  By the time this thread and the other one about mold are finished,  maybe time will permit a good summary of all we find.

Phil L.