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red oak prices

Started by turningfool, August 30, 2007, 09:05:52 AM

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turningfool

does anyone have a clue as to red oak is going for these days? furby and i have a chance to get at least several large red oaks just for the cutting of them an i wondered whether its worth the effort involved

Radar67

At the box stores locally, it is $6 bdft, some of the small mills around here are selling for $3 bdft.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

turningfool

thanks for the input radar :)

Furby

Problem is turningfool, our location.
We don't have a very good market.
Actually, I don't have a market at all!
Still sitting on some ERC from last November. ::)

Fla._Deadheader


Ever try EBAY, Furby ???  Creative wording gets local customers, and traffic to your WEBSITE  ::) ::) ::)

  I would sure try to get a few table slabs from those big trees. Leave the edge, just take off the bark. Anchorseal them too.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Furby

Well we have to quarter the trees to get them out of there and mill them.
We have no choice as we don't have a swinger or a slabber.

Don't have a website.
You just don't understand the economy around here, there is NONE!
Folks really aren't buying much of anything of this sort right now.

Fla._Deadheader

  YOU don't understand MARKETING, Furby. 

 
QuoteYou just don't understand the economy around here, there is NONE
MY POINT  ::) ::) ::) ::)

  And, just how wide is it across the corners of those quarters ???  You have a long bar, RIGHT ???  Throw together an Alaskan Clone. Stumpjumper should be able to do that in a day er two ???

  Slabs only need to be 30" or so across ???

  C'mon down here, and I'll teach ya how to do stuff  ::) ::)  ;)

  WHY don't you have a website ???  Your talent could put a simple one together in a couple days. They can be cheap to get hosted. Join up with a couple buddies in the lumber game. MAKE IT WORK  ::) ::) ::) ??? ??? ??? ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Furby

We do plan to pull some bigger boards off, as big as the WM can cut. :)

You can build a business where one doesn't exist as long as there are folks willing to buy.
You just can't build a business where no one is buying, it don't work.
Yes, marketing is key, I totally agree, but you can't sell if there is no one there!
You have no clue to how many business are folding every single day around here.
The homeowners are RUNNING from their homes, just leaving them behind.
Banks are overwhelmed with forecloures.
You can't sell to folks that aren't here and don't have any cash.

We aren't talking about specialty stuff here, we are talking about plain jane lumber.

Daren

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on August 30, 2007, 01:07:28 PM
  YOU don't understand MARKETING, Furby. 

  Your talent could put a simple one together in a couple days. They can be cheap to get hosted.

$25 a year, and very little brain power (speaking from personal experience) and you are in the website business. http://www.doteasy.com/ . I live in the middle of Amish country, they sell oak every day for $2 or less. I cannot compete with that locally, I would have already starved to death without a website, guaranteed. I sell stuff I have to ship sometimes, or some are willing to drive 100-200 miles  believe it or not for just plain stock. I sold every stick of walnut I had over 12" wide this week to one guy who had followed a link to my website after visiting a woodworking forum. He is all the way across the state. I get 10 (?) calls a week from strangers looking for wood, sometimes I have it sometimes not.
Take a look at my site (there are even a couple "Furbyish" pictures of me there) http://nelsonwoodworks.biz/ , I don't know squat about website building I just took some pictures and typed stuff in my own words...seems to strike a cord with some.
That is my leg up on the local competition...the Amish don't have a website  :D. The people driving so far to see me don't know about the Amish mills, and those mills are not making internet lumber sales either. Therefor I can get a little more than $2 bft for something as plain as oak.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Fla._Deadheader


Exactly  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

  We had to find a market. Ask Tom how many times I asked HIM how to sell the Sinker Stuff ???  I KNOW he got tired of my questions.

  There is a whole nother world out there, outside of Po-dunk Michigan, Furby ???

  If I may ask, If there's NO MARKET, WHY are y'all gonna cut them trees ??? ???  ??? ???

  Just because they are there  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???   NUFF said  ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Furby

Yup, just because they are there!
Exactly why!

Tom

It's not always a situation of finding the market as it is "creating a market". ย  Marketing requires ingenuity, creativeness, timeing, a sense of humor, a positive attitude, luck and a lot guts.

Which $100 bill is the most important when you start a company, the one hanging on the end of a 10,000 dollar bank account, or the last 50 dollar one that you have in your wallet? ย Entrepreneur's aren't looking for the quick buck, the big company or a cozy feeling from their friends. ย They are looking at promoting an idea that they are the only ones who can see.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "The fastest way around a track is in the groove. If you ride the groove, you will either win, or be one of the rest of the field following in single file. " ย Get out of the groove and be innovative!

"You can't sell to people who have no money", isn't a plan, it's an excuse. ย  Find the money!! ย Sell harder!!
Go to their door, don't wait for them to come to yours.

It's easier to recover from a failure when you have nothing to begin with. ย What do you want for a head start, a million dollar bank account? ย Is investing a $100 bill from that the security you are after? ย 

What's the problem really, that you can't sell the wood or that somebody won't buy it? ย You never know if .there isn't a customer untill you've knocked on the last door. and even then, with a fresh outlook and a different plan, you can start all over again.

So they don't want to buy your board, sell them a table, or a pen, or the sawdust, or chips for their garden. ย Here's an idea, buy some hardware (screws, brackets and a half pint of poly) and sell them a coffee table kit. ย You can include a board for free, or, you can offer them a special board for lots of money.

So, your neighbor doesn't want one. ย So what! ย How about that apartment dweller in NYC who is looking for something different to put in their $2000 a month flat.

There is a big difference in Marketing and Selling the same as there is in Fishing and Catching.

One thing to remember about business, it isn't the customers fault that businesses fail.

TexasTimbers

Furby,

A guy out west buys my Bois D' Arc sawdust for $4 a pound. He only buys about 20-30 pounds a month.ย  A lady in India and one in Canada pay $10 and $12 respectively a pound for it and they both buy it more often than the guy in California. They each buy 100 pounds at a time and it's usually every 6 - 8 weeks. This means they are selling/usingย  more of it but paying, and probably charging 2 to 3 times more than the dude. They are doing something smarter than he is whatever that may be.

It should be noted that I developed these clients by doing google searches and making phone calls.

Get to tinkering young man. You can sell that red oak if you keep at it.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Daren

Quote from: Daren on August 30, 2007, 01:44:09 PM
I get 10 (?) calls a week from strangers looking for wood, sometimes I have it sometimes not.


Since Kevin jumped in here I can use having a website to help each other out too. A dude from California contacted me wanting figured stock this week, some stranger that happened upon my site. I did not have enough (he wanted everything 2" thick) to fill his needs. I sold him some spalted stock and he is on a waiting list for some I am going to saw in a few weeks...excellent have your logs sold before you even saw them  8). I happened to think about Kevin's site and linked it in my reply, the customer thanked me and said he loved kevjay's red box elder. I don't know if he made a sale to him, but that is not really the point. Customers can go window shopping while you are asleep even, not digging in the hot shed and walk away empty handed after wasting an hour or better of your time. Brothers can help each other out, and really in case like I mentioned it helps you out too. Even though I could not fill his immediate order since I gave him a lead customers appreciate that kinda service and are most often your repeat customers.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Fla._Deadheader


You would not BELIEVE how many guys have stopped by our shop, because they recognized the sawmill sitting outside. Most wanted to buy Black Walnut and Butternut.  ::) ::) ::)

  Their reasoning was, "I can get it up north". Why don't YOU have it here ???

  Wanna buy some Sinker Cypress ???  Bet you can't buy THAT up North ???

  Never heard of Sinker Cypress. ??? ::) ::) ::) ::)  AND,  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

  That's why we don't have Northern Wood down here.  ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ron Wenrich

FWIW, wholesale green 4/4 FAS red oak is down to 82ยข/bf.  Veneer quality oak is $1.25-1.50/bf.  Red oak prices are well below white oak in the present market as demand is more towards the diffuse porous woods.  Even that isn't too strong.

I don't expect to see red oak demand come back for quite some time.  That doesn't mean that you can't sell any, just that those high prices that it commanded in the past are probably history. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

TexasTimbers

Quote from: Daren on August 30, 2007, 03:42:55 PM
I don't know if he made a sale to him, but that is not really the point.

Yes, he did. Thanks by the way. :) HAve you seen his "Artwork" ? Don't ya just love these websites! 8) 8)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

TexasTimbers

Red oak prices are not down. Prices are down on some red oak in some places, but here in fannin county, air dried crappy old rotten red oak like this is going for $2.50BF in the 4/4 flitch. I whacked this pice last month as a bigger sample so I wet it when pokers come around a poking. "Ya got anything unusual?" So I isially show 'em some box elder. Everyone likes it but it's too rich for some folks blood so then I show 'em stuf like this red oak that has been moved around here and there. It's getting easier to move all the time though he bought 220BF of it.

Red oak shmed oak. Yep it's down to $2.50BF around here.  :) I hate to give away all my secrets but I have a few more n the bag - my problem is getting enough wood cut to keep people happy not getting enough customers to keep the sawmill happy.

I am not intending for this to sound like a brag I am simply making the point: I don't even know what I am doing and I am selling stuff without hardly trying. You fellas that actually know what you are doing ought to be tearing it up. Maybe that is my problem - I don't know enough to know that I am supposed to see nothing but a depressed economy. Well don't enlighten me because all I see is unlimited opportunity.

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

MikeH


Jeff

Red Oak Prices ARE down. One cant just look past your own limited personal markets and apply it to the rest of the market as a whole. Furby and this Tree live in a very depressed area. Not only is it depressed, it is the epicenter of the wholesale lumber industry in Michigan. Grand Rapids Michigan and the surrounding area has many many lumber buyers and wholesalers and still many furniture factories. All of which are paying way less for red oak then during the boom years only 3 or 4 years ago.  The other problem is that Furby and the Tree, and I included, live in some of the best Northern red oak areas in the country. Red Oak is plentiful here, and readily available to buy most anywhere.

"I got some red oak lumber for sale!"   Yea?  So what. Thats what Furby is dealing with here.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

thecfarm

Red oak log prices are down around here too.Been looking to see it come back up the way it was.Red oak is very common around here.I have a bunch that I'm just letting grow.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Norm

I might suggest you q-saw the logs to get the best prices for them. I have trouble selling it flat sawn but have better luck moving it if it's q-sawn. We have lots of red oak in our area and I've been surprised at how little it brings. I can sell qs white oak 3 to 1 over it and for a much better price. I used to run ads on the internet and got tons of interest but got too busy with the day job to do much justice with it. If a guy could get 8/4 wo qs without much degrade you can name your price.

I always hesitate to tell someone what prices are because it's so area specific. We have tons of black walnut on our place and hardly ever sell it. I do better to leave it in logs and sell to the bigger mills.

Ron Wenrich

I've been in this business long enough to remember when there was hardly a market for red oak.  When I first started to buy timber, I was told not to buy red oak, if at all possible.  Red oak had no veneer value at the time.  That was in the early '70s.  White oak, tulip poplar and maple had high demand.

We had a recession in the mid-70s, and after that, the market turned to the ring porous woods like red oak and ash.  Boomers started to build/buy homes.  Maple and tulip poplar prices remained the same for all long time while red oak surpassed them.  There were times when you couldn't move maple at any price. 

During the recent building craze, boomers started buying second homes or moved up.  This time they used maple instead of oak.  That's what fueled the recent maple boom.  The walnut, white oak and cherry expansion is more on the export end.  Red oak demand has dropped hard in the past few years.  It doesn't mean you can't sell it, it just means that it doesn't command as high of a price as in the past.

We don't sell trophy wood.  Trophy wood can command high prices, but the market is very limited.  Its the old supply and demand curve.  Price your wood at $2+/bd ft and your market size shrinks.  If you can survive in that market condition, then that's OK.  We can't.

We have one client that takes 4/4 red oak clears.  When we cut red oak, we'll give him a couple of Mbf in a couple of days.  We don't saw many butt logs.  So, how long would it take for me to fill my shed with $2+ red oak?  The bigger question is how long would it take for me to sell it at that price.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ed

A friend of mine is currently having some of his land logged. Hard Maple, Cherry and Walnut, thats it. The buyer won't even touch Red Oak and the price on White Oak was so low they are being left for a wildlife food supply.

The only market for Red Oak here is firewood.

Ed

TexasTimbers

I choose not to dwell on the negative. My opinion is as relevant as anyone's even though it may not be popular or "right" or whatever. If I chose to, there is plenty of negative stuff going on around me that i could say rules my time but I try to not to focus on it. I don't always succeed but I usually do and it seems positive things happen to me. Like selling red oak when red oak is "down"

My opionion, which is relevant to my poerspective is that red oak prices are up. If you don't like my opinion that's okay because you not liking my opinion does not affect my red oak prices.

My might add here that my point is not to simply be contrary or disagreeable. I am simply stating that in todays big wide world or is that World Wide Web there is more to the red oak market than Michingan. Jeff you of all people should know that your livelihood is being supported almost entierly by it. Why can't Furby do it also?

Furby you will sell the red oak if you don't give up. Prices be DanGed.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

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